Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Jovocop » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:50 am

herb wrote:Color me bitter, but I hope Kesler never wins another personal or team award.
You are not alone, Herb! :mrgreen:

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Rumsfeld » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:53 am

Kane and Toews are worth it.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by the Dogsalmon » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:06 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
herb wrote:Kane and Toews have signed identical 8 year, $84M contract extensions. Not much of a "home town" discount there.

Obviously both are wonderful players, but tying up two guys to $21M in cap space (30% of existing cap) per year is bloody expensive.
Yeah, that model hasn't worked especially well for Pittsburgh recently.

No...but it did work once...and as a Canuck fan I will be happy winning ONE Cup !

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Island Nucklehead » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:13 pm

the Dogsalmon wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
herb wrote:Kane and Toews have signed identical 8 year, $84M contract extensions. Not much of a "home town" discount there.

Obviously both are wonderful players, but tying up two guys to $21M in cap space (30% of existing cap) per year is bloody expensive.
Yeah, that model hasn't worked especially well for Pittsburgh recently.

No...but it did work once...and as a Canuck fan I will be happy winning ONE Cup !
Not really. When the Penguins won the Cup Malkins cap-hit was $3.8M and Crosby and Malkin combined were making $12.5M.

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Island Nucklehead » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:22 pm

It all depends on how much the Cap goes up after next season, but as of today the Blackhawks will have about $3M to sign 8 players. Guys like Saad, Leddy and Rundblad will be RFA's.

If I had to guess the Hawks will try to offload Sharp for nothing (no cap can come back) and will have a hard time re-signing Sebrook after the 15/16 season.

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Betamax » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:47 pm

herb wrote:
Zedlee wrote:Wow...big money! Only comparable is Crosby and Malkin...and how did that work out for the Penguins lately?
$10.5M is nearly $2M more per year than Crosby makes and $1M more than Malkin! :shock:

Great players, but I thought they'd take a bit of a haircut to keep the band together and all that.

Kane and Toews will be the highest paid players in the league next year by a fairly wide margin. Malkin's hit is $9.5M, Crosby's at $8.7M, Perry is at $8.6M and Giroux is at $8.2M.
[/b]
Even if the cap does continue to go up (it won't go up as much as it has in future years), $21M is a huge portion of cap space.
duh, listen herb or should I call you, Mr. Arithmetic now, as per your response in this thread ...... until the final details are known .... your numbers are speculative, in essence, you are pulling a cyber bro dave here (LOL) and more than likely than not ...... your speculation is wrong, so wrong, that you couldn't be more wrong if you were also Mr. Wrong, the Current, duh, Mayor of the Centre of the Universe.

In your post, you are only looking at their AAV and NOT actual take home pay (the exact numbers for Toews/Kane, however hasn't been confirmed at the time of this post).

Crosby was signed under the former CBA where teams could excessively front load their contracts.

via: http://www.capgeek.com/player/476

Crosby's actual take home pay for next two seasons is actually 12M before it scales down.

vs.

Kane:

http://www.capgeek.com/player/245

and

Toews:

http://www.capgeek.com/player/246

The scuttlebutt on the twitterverse is that both Kane's and Toews' contract is also front-loaded (right now it's listed as the same as its AAV on the link via capgeek) but the rules were change in the max % of drop from year to year and unlike The Sid's contract that was signed under the old CBA they don't have those de facto large drop-off in "throwaway years" at the end of the contract to lower overall AAV. :mex:

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by xtr3m » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:03 pm

@TGfireandice
Hearing 7 years, $6 mil per for Cory Schneider.

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Betamax » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:45 pm

xtr3m wrote:@TGfireandice
Hearing 7 years, $6 mil per for Cory Schneider.
via: http://capgeek.com/leaders/?season=2014 ... G&limit=50

The Cory's AAV would slot in as tied for 6th as it stands:
Player Pos Team Age Start End Length Amount
1. Lundqvist, Henrik » G NYR 32 2014 2021 7 $8,500,000
2. Rinne, Pekka » G NSH 31 2012 2019 7 $7,000,000
3. Rask, Tuukka » G BOS 27 2013 2021 8 $7,000,000
4. Price, Carey » G MTL 26 2012 2018 6 $6,500,000
5. Ward, Cam » G CAR 30 2010 2016 6 $6,300,000
6. Crawford, Corey » G CHI 29 2014 2020 6 $6,000,000
7. Miller, Ryan » G VAN 33 2014 2017 3 $6,000,000
8. Lehtonen, Kari » G DAL 30 2013 2018 5 $5,900,000
9. Varlamov, Semyon » G COL 26 2014 2019 5 $5,900,000
10. Quick, Jonathan » G LAK 28 2013 2023 10 $5,800,000
:mex:

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Aaronp18 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:48 pm

Betamax wrote: duh, listen herb or should I call you, Mr. Arithmetic now, as per your response in this thread ...... until the final details are known .... your numbers are speculative, in essence, you are pulling a cyber bro dave here (LOL) and more than likely than not ...... your speculation is wrong, so wrong, that you couldn't be more wrong if you were also Mr. Wrong, the Current, duh, Mayor of the Centre of the Universe.
Well no, he's right.

He spoke of "per year" and "hit" in his post referencing AAV essentially. Which realistically when it comes to the year to year business of hockey is what really matters because it affects the teams ability to add players to their roster.

I could care less what Aqualung spends per year on a player what matters is their cap hit.

My speculation is that their peak years will be right around the $12M (though they could make up to $13.8M if the 20% rule still exists) that Crosby takes home lowering to $6M at the end of their contract following the new CBA rules. But again what affects the competitiveness of a team is the actual cap hit not the dollars paid in a given year, for teams willing to spend to the cap anyways.

Kane and Toews may tie up approx 30% of the cap next year (depending on how much the cap goes up). That is a lot and will hinder the Blackhawks ability to add salary and the talent that goes along with it.

Crosby definitely took a healthy cap hit contract in order to allow the Penguins to spend more on other players. He also has that thing with the #87 so well there's that.

But over the length of their contracts Kane and Toews will average about $2M more per year than Crosby's current contract and he is bang on about averaging $1M per year more than Malkin.

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Betamax » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:00 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:Well no, he's right.

He spoke of "per year" and "hit" in his post referencing AAV essentially. Which realistically when it comes to the year to year business of hockey is what really matters because it affects the teams ability to add players to their roster.
No, Aaron .... herb was clearly wrong because he had made the statement, "$10.5M is nearly $2M more per year than Crosby makes and $1M more than Malkin! "

"Makes" clearly infers "take home pay" ... i.e. what is on his paycheck and not AAV.

In other words, for example Jason Speeza "only" makes 4M this upcoming season, but his AAV is 7M.

see: http://capgeek.com/player/409

8-)


I could care less what Aqualung spends per year on a player what matters is their cap hit.

My speculation is that their peak years will be right around the $12M (though they could make up to $13.8M if the 20% rule still exists) that Crosby takes home lowering to $6M at the end of their contract following the new CBA rules. But again what affects the competitiveness of a team is the actual cap hit not the dollars paid in a given year, for teams willing to spend to the cap anyways.

Kane and Toews may tie up approx 30% of the cap next year (depending on how much the cap goes up). That is a lot and will hinder the Blackhawks ability to add salary and the talent that goes along with it.

Crosby definitely took a healthy cap hit contract in order to allow the Penguins to spend more on other players. He also has that thing with the #87 so well there's that.

But over the length of their contracts Kane and Toews will average about $2M more per year than Crosby's current contract and he is bang on about averaging $1M per year more than Malkin.
The one thing that is telling, is that it is a good indicator that the Blackhawks at least expect the Salary Cap to go up significantly higher over the duration of the contract. I can see Subban's deal now getting close to the 10M AAV range .... although I think it would end up being in the mid 8's to low 9M if he signs a long-term extension and not it being an arbitration award. :mex:
Last edited by Betamax on Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Betamax » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:07 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Betamax wrote: The Cory has delivered "elite" numbers the past two seasons.
Actually the most important number when it comes to measuring "elite"-ness is the Games Played number.

Which is why you don't see Panic Attack listed on the page I linked.

Not even ONE SINGLE Vezina vote and he's 28 years old! :eh:

So yeah, kinda creepy how some Canuckers are still in love with ole Marblehead. :look:

All I can say is, hopefully Jared McCann has accomplished much more in the NHL by age 28.

Hopefully YOU will fall in love with Jared McCann in the not-too-distant future. :drink:
I would like to amend my previous comments and say the past four or so seasons, The Cory .....

via: https://twitter.com/DimFilipovic/status ... 72/photo/1
Dimitri Filipovic ‏@DimFilipovic

Here's a list of goalies sorted by save percentage since 2010. Cory Schneider is sort of decent.

Image

1:07 PM - 9 Jul 2014
I guess you can, duh, write ..... those sure look like elite numbers posted by The Cory. 8-)

Last time I checked, you can't be better than No. 1, right? :mex:

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Strangelove » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:15 pm

^^^ FFS those numbers are well known.

(as are the Games Played numbers at age 28)

UMMMM we'll let you know if&when Panic Attack ever achieves "elite-ness".... MMMMkay? :evil:
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Strangelove » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:17 pm

Betamax wrote:
xtr3m wrote:@TGfireandice
Hearing 7 years, $6 mil per for Cory Schneider.
via: http://capgeek.com/leaders/?season=2014 ... G&limit=50

The Cory's AAV would slot in as tied for 6th as it stands:
Player Pos Team Age Start End Length Amount
1. Lundqvist, Henrik » G NYR 32 2014 2021 7 $8,500,000
2. Rinne, Pekka » G NSH 31 2012 2019 7 $7,000,000
3. Rask, Tuukka » G BOS 27 2013 2021 8 $7,000,000
4. Price, Carey » G MTL 26 2012 2018 6 $6,500,000
5. Ward, Cam » G CAR 30 2010 2016 6 $6,300,000
6. Crawford, Corey » G CHI 29 2014 2020 6 $6,000,000
7. Miller, Ryan » G VAN 33 2014 2017 3 $6,000,000
8. Lehtonen, Kari » G DAL 30 2013 2018 5 $5,900,000
9. Varlamov, Semyon » G COL 26 2014 2019 5 $5,900,000
10. Quick, Jonathan » G LAK 28 2013 2023 10 $5,800,000
:mex:
viewtopic.php?p=209993#p209993
Strangelove [color=#FF0000]Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:01 pm[/color] wrote:
Betamax wrote: How much do you think he'll receive in his next contract .... I mean, he's just a 28 years old goalie with Not even ONE SINGLE Vezina vote! :eh:
He'll likely get ~$6m AAV (about how much average #1s seem to be getting of late).

Yeah, he definitely won't be getting what the "elite" goaltenders are getting dude. :hmmm:

True he hasn't exactly established himself as a #1, but the Devs don't want to lose him as a UFA.

And as YOU keep saying, a team must pay a premium for those UFA years. :wink:

So they're basically in a sign-him-at-slightly-less-than-average-number-one-wages-and-cross-fingers stage.

PLUS that UFA premium. :wink:
:mex:
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by herb » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:23 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:Well no, he's right.

He spoke of "per year" and "hit" in his post referencing AAV essentially. Which realistically when it comes to the year to year business of hockey is what really matters because it affects the teams ability to add players to their roster.

I could care less what Aqualung spends per year on a player what matters is their cap hit.

My speculation is that their peak years will be right around the $12M (though they could make up to $13.8M if the 20% rule still exists) that Crosby takes home lowering to $6M at the end of their contract following the new CBA rules. But again what affects the competitiveness of a team is the actual cap hit not the dollars paid in a given year, for teams willing to spend to the cap anyways.

Kane and Toews may tie up approx 30% of the cap next year (depending on how much the cap goes up). That is a lot and will hinder the Blackhawks ability to add salary and the talent that goes along with it.

Crosby definitely took a healthy cap hit contract in order to allow the Penguins to spend more on other players. He also has that thing with the #87 so well there's that.

But over the length of their contracts Kane and Toews will average about $2M more per year than Crosby's current contract and he is bang on about averaging $1M per year more than Malkin.
Over the length of their contracts, Toews and Kane are going to be paid more than their counterparts around the league.

Perhaps my previous post was worded sloppily, but the only thing that matters from a fan's perspective in a cap world is a player's cap hit and how cap space is allocated amongst the players on the team.

Nobody talks about cash out the door...talking heads and fans alike all talk about cap hit or AAV. Who cares about salary?

Anyway, over the terms of the Toews and Kane contracts (2015-16 to 2022-23) Crosby is going to get paid, in salary, $74.4M. Toews and Kane are going to be compensated, in salary, $84M.

I win.

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Betamax » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:25 pm

Strangelove wrote:^^^ FFS those numbers are well known.

(as are the Games Played numbers at age 28)

UMMMM we'll let you know if&when Panic Attack ever achieves "elite-ness".... MMMMkay? :evil:
duh, Mr. Raak had only played 13 more games during that four year timespan and is only 1 years younger. Furthermore, less games played up to that point means that there are less miles on the odometer, so he should be fresh, well into his 30s ....... like, duh, a Tim Thomas who managed to show he was elite and Vezina winning in his 30s while playing very few games in his 20s. :mex:
Last edited by Betamax on Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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