Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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Blob Mckenzie
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:50 pm

SKYO wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:21 am
Richardstroker69 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:57 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:57 pm
SKYO wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:34 pm
Vernon, BC's Ken Holland would be great at taking Smyl's spot as the new Senior Advisor, where Smyl could be a President of something, along with his scouting role.
Holland would only come in as the Prez.

Smyl could be president of hamburger sales.
Lol agree with Smyl and hamburger sales. I think holland and Jim could work well together. I’d think holland will be in Seattle though.
The only thing with Ken Holland is he always wanted a VETERAN team so his squad would always make the playoffs, and he had the HHOF great one & legend Nicklas Lidstrom.

And their best success of course came when Lidstrom was in his prime years and they won 4 championships.

Holland once joked he'd retire when Lidstrom retired.

And when Lidstrom retired in 2012 - Kenny would still stock their team full of vets which yes helped them reach the playoffs but floundered, 2013 rd2, 14' rd1, 15' rd1, 16' rd1, 17' out, 18' out.

The cap also didn't help his cause, and they have very little youthful prospects (sans zadina), it's like when Gillis left the Canucks with an old team, with no prospects with locked up veterans who have iron clad NTC's, FFS look at their defense with like 5 NTC (2modded) - https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/redwings

And they have the highest cap hit in the league, they literally have $0 in cap space lol.

About the only good he'd be right now is as an Senior Advisor thanks to his success in the Lidstrom prime years and his connections across the league, his connects & experience is what could help JB/Weisbrod possibly.

Wasn't their a study about former NHL GM's who won a Cup with a team, but couldn't recreate that success elsewhere? The best GM's put in their roots in at a good age with their team, drafting their future core and building from there, which Jim Benning is currently doing and doing a mighty fine job at that.
The Wings broke in a lot of good kids during Ken Holland’s watch over the years. You think Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Kronwall started in the heir 30s? He didn’t always want a veteran team, Ridiculous. Teams go through ups and downs and he has a few cups. And Detroit does have some good prospects other than Zadina.

The Canucks have also been jammed against the cap for the past three years and have the leagues worst combined record over the past three seasons.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by SKYO » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:58 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:50 pm
The Wings broke in a lot of good kids during Ken Holland’s watch over the years. You think Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Kronwall started in the heir 30s? He didn’t always want a veteran team, Ridiculous. Teams go through ups and downs and he has a few cups. And Detroit does have some good prospects other than Zadina.

The Canucks have also been jammed against the cap for the past three years and have the leagues worst combined record over the past three seasons.
It's been pretty obvious Holland loved the veterans.

"Red Wings GM Holland has no appetite for a painful rebuild"
https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/ ... ul-rebuild
"This might not be what fans of the Detroit Red Wings want to hear at the moment, but if you’re looking the franchise to strip things down to the wood and rebuild from the bottom, you’re going to be disappointed. Because the same thing that made the Red Wings a modern-day dynasty and fuelled them to 25 straight playoff appearances is what is going to continue to drive them.

And that is that it’s simply not in GM Ken Holland’s DNA to strive to be bad. So don’t expect the Red Wings to unload veterans en masse, fire their coach, clean house and start over. Rather than rebuild, Holland thinks the Red Wings need to retool.

“If you look at the Eastern Conference, there are five teams that were out of the playoffs last year that are in this year,” Holland said. “We’ve got to do what those other teams did last year that missed and are back in. We have to retool a little bit and try to get a little better. And over the long haul keep drafting and developing. That’s how the Red Wings were built.”
Like I said about the salary cap, to elaborate a bit - that changed everything, Ken Holland managed to win one more championship with Lidstrom and their team never were able solidify a team good enough in the playoffs after that.

His line of thinking is great if you had a Nik Lidstrom in his prime taking over every game or series, NL is akin to Chris Pronger, Bobby Orr, those legends can change your team in a instant.

That said, I'd still love KH and his wisdom on the squad, :mrgreen:
he'd be great to have when it's time to target veterans to surround Bo/Boeser/Pettersson/Dahlen.

In the meantime the Canucks need to continue forever into eternity to try to acquire that rare game changer dman, Hughes/Juolevi are good steps in that direction to solidify the top 4.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by ESQ » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:52 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:50 pm

The Wings broke in a lot of good kids during Ken Holland’s watch over the years. You think Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Kronwall started in the heir 30s? He didn’t always want a veteran team, Ridiculous. Teams go through ups and downs and he has a few cups. And Detroit does have some good prospects other than Zadina.

The Canucks have also been jammed against the cap for the past three years and have the leagues worst combined record over the past three seasons.
Blob, those are three players that broke in 15 years ago. From Franzen in 2004 (legit 2nd-line FW) to Mantha in 2013, who was Holland's best pick?

Nyquist? Helm? Abedelkader?

Holland has been a terrible drafter. He'll be the first to admit that Zetterberg and Datsyuk were flukes - which is obvious when a 7th rounder turns into an all-star.

The reality is Holland's success was directly tied to the career of the greatest defenceman of all time, who was drafted in the 80s and lead the Wings to their last Cup in 08.

That being said, I think Holland would be a great addition for his trading and re-signing. If there was a structure that had Jim doing the draft, and Holland working the trades and contracts, I'd be more than happy with that.

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:10 am

Terrible drafter? I see you conveniently left out Larkin and his last draft which a lot of people said was excellent. Why not cover his entire tenure instead? What constitutes a success at the draft table? 300 games, 400 games for players drafted out of the top 10?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:18 am

I’m open to discussing this. Doc and I discussed this very point with Fred years ago and he pitched a fit and left the forum after eating a dozen crows and puking up black feathers
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by ESQ » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:32 am

Sorry I should have replied in this thread rather than the Luongo thread.

Its just been so damn long since we actually talked hockey on here! My bad.

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Reefer2 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:54 am

ESQ wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:32 am
Sorry I should have replied in this thread rather than the Luongo thread.

Its just been so damn long since we actually talked hockey on here! My bad.
+1

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by ESQ » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:37 am

According to Garrioch:
Sources say the
#Sens
have dealt Erik Karlsson to the Sharks in exchange for Chris Tierney, Dylan DeMelo, Josh Norris, Rudolfs Balcers, 2020 1st, 2019 2nd and two conditional picks.
If that's the case, then damn, the canucks had comparable trade chips.

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:13 pm

ESQ wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:37 am
According to Garrioch:
Sources say the
#Sens
have dealt Erik Karlsson to the Sharks in exchange for Chris Tierney, Dylan DeMelo, Josh Norris, Rudolfs Balcers, 2020 1st, 2019 2nd and two conditional picks.
If that's the case, then damn, the canucks had comparable trade chips.
They sure did. Maybe he didn’t want to extend here
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Topper » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:06 pm

ESQ wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:37 am
According to Garrioch:
Sources say the
#Sens
have dealt Erik Karlsson to the Sharks in exchange for Chris Tierney, Dylan DeMelo, Josh Norris, Rudolfs Balcers, 2020 1st, 2019 2nd and two conditional picks.
If that's the case, then damn, the canucks had comparable trade chips.
Every team in the league has those sorts of chips. Pretty clear this was Karlson's choosing.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Hockey Widow » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:18 pm

That and the Sens wanted more to trade him to the east
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by BladesofSteel » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:28 pm

^^
Foolish. Dorian has to make the best deal possible, regardless of which conference he deals EK to. The team is in shambles, who gives a fuck if you have to play him 4-6 times a year?

Having said that, EK had the last word and in all likelihood, Dallas SJ and LV were likely the loudest teams in the bidding war given their cap space.

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Strangelove » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:05 pm

Damn, Wilson bent Dorion over a barrel and showed him the 50 states...
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by ESQ » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:44 pm

No word on an extension, which doesn't surprise me. As Skyo points out, the Sharks have to renew 20 contracts for next year, so they could very well have just loaded up for Jumbola last run.

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Strangelove » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:13 pm

ESQ wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:44 pm
No word on an extension, which doesn't surprise me. As Skyo points out, the Sharks have to renew 20 contracts for next year, so they could very well have just loaded up for Jumbola last run.
Well they paid a rental price so maybe.

But isn't it 12 contracts (including Karlsson)?

Those 6 RFAs won't get very big raises.

Surely Old Joe ($5M) will retire at age 40 next summer.

Donskoi ($1.9M) will walk.

There will be a few more million available with the Cap rising and whatnot.

They also have $1.7M in cap-space at the moment.

I can see them finding room for a Karlsson extension.
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