There will be a strike

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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Per » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:06 am

ukcanuck wrote: It just seems to me that of the big four only Hockey is a truly global sport and thats not really being taken advantage of. I know basketball is a global game and Baseball a bit too, but there isnt the same level of international competition like in hockey.


Just thinking outside the box but if this keeps up and Bettman keeps this culture of lockouts and downward pressure of salaries and contract over the long term, he's risking the relevance of the NHL as a force in the sport.

I guess for Canada that would probably mean that Toronto Montreal and Vancouver could manage to avoid relegation and the rest of the country would have to make do with the American league but the A would be a much better league than now and like in the UK it doesnt matter what league your home town team is in the fans are just a rabid... maybe a little too rabid

the payoff would be games and series between cities like
New york
Stockholm
Moscow
Detroit
Chicago
Kiev
Helsinki
Vancouver
Toronto
Berlin
Montreal
Chicago
Pure free markets the best players go to the best teams, water finds its own level, perhaps that would bring the game and health of the sport up to a more equal footing?


There's an embryo for that somewhere in this: http://www.europeantrophy.com/teams.php

A league/tournament that hopes to emulate the success of Champions League soccer and where 7 Czech, 7 Finnish, 7 Swedish, 4 German, 4 Swiss, 2 Austrian and 1 Slovak team square off for a trophy.

Originally it was called the Nordic Trophy and only had twelve teams; six Swedish, six Finnish, but it has been expanding over the last few years and I think they have the ambition to grow even more.

It's been rumoured that there are plans to make this a permanent league, and then perhaps have joint playoffs with the KHL. Not sure that will ever happen though.

This is not a bad idea though, because there are lots of great players from Sweden, Finland and the Czech Republic, but there is more money to be made in Germany and Switzerland. By merging these markets you could start to get some economies of scale and be able to present a better product.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Per » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:08 am

Tiger wrote: Love to see a KhL / NHL 7 game series for the Stanley :)

I know the Russians have suggested a super cup between the Stanley and Gagarin Cup winners, but so far the NHL brass has been giving them the cold shoulder.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:22 am

Per wrote: By merging these markets you could start to get some economies of scale and be able to present a better product.


I have to say that there was a time where I would have hated the idea, but having spent time in the UK now and seeing first hand how footy fans go gaga equally over their home club and their premier league club, i can see it. people follow players up through the leagues and they have their teams and there is a secondary sport of arm chair managing clubs as fans know that its not just money alone that attracts players and there in lies the hope. The Leicester Tigers can have a good season increase their revenue and hire a better manager, who in turn attracts better players, which translates into more wins and more money and attracts star players and eventually they rise to the top and win it all and then topple like a house of cards to start the cycle over again elsewhere, meanwhile the Madrids and Barcelonas and Manchesters, the Big cities stay at or near the top as they should do...
I tell you what, If you are a soccer fan its a smorgasbord...

Right now with the NHL hamstrung, it doesn't seem so bad anymore
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:55 pm

I can rarely see the benefit of the manner the Premiership works. Or the league come to that matter. First and fore most every EPL team knows it place. It's like the British class system. You know which of 5 teams are going to be at the top come the end of the season ( I know there are exceptions to this rule but pretty rare ) what is the point to West Brom Fulham, N/cle, Sunderland,Aston Villa. they have zero chance of winning a season and with the 3 point system they use many teams are that far ahead come the mid season that they're uncatchable. The top teams are pretty well home and cooled off. Plus of course unless you have a facility of bringing in 45-55,000 you can't compete financially .

Why is it run that way. well it's not because of choice. Football was started with local amateurs clubs one local team playing the next village over a hundred years ago. The change happened slowly, some teams were located in larger areas and attracted more support and prospered and so the league was developed to separate the have's from the have nots. It grew from there.

That's not the way Pro hockey grew. You wanted to join a league you paid your league fee and joined in an appropriate league. You need a facility to match the league you join. That in it's self means millions of dollars and NO ONE is going to pay millions in league fees if they get kicked out the next season and are left with a huge expensive facility that has no practical use.

In the EPL clubs like Darlington will never as long as they draw breath ever ever be in the top level. It's a fantasy.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:14 pm

Fred wrote:I can rarely see the benefit of the manner the Premiership works. Or the league come to that matter. First and fore most every EPL team knows it place. It's like the British class system. You know which of 5 teams are going to be at the top come the end of the season ( I know there are exceptions to this rule but pretty rare ) what is the point to West Brom Fulham, N/cle, Sunderland,Aston Villa. they have zero chance of winning a season and with the 3 point system they use many teams are that far ahead come the mid season that they're uncatchable. The top teams are pretty well home and cooled off. Plus of course unless you have a facility of bringing in 45-55,000 you can't compete financially .

Why is it run that way. well it's not because of choice. Football was started with local amateurs clubs one local team playing the next village over a hundred years ago. The change happened slowly, some teams were located in larger areas and attracted more support and prospered and so the league was developed to separate the have's from the have nots. It grew from there.

That's not the way Pro hockey grew. You wanted to join a league you paid your league fee and joined in an appropriate league. You need a facility to match the league you join. That in it's self means millions of dollars and NO ONE is going to pay millions in league fees if they get kicked out the next season and are left with a huge expensive facility that has no practical use.

In the EPL clubs like Darlington will never as long as they draw breath ever ever be in the top level. It's a fantasy.


Apparently 23 of 45 clubs have won the premiership so it wasnt fantasy for them all. however, I think that how it relevant to hockey in North America is like in the UK many of the best players in the world are not domestic and as the euro leagues and EU economy grows competition for the best players is going to be a concern. The way that the NHL is going its not going to be long when the level of play is so watered down that it won't be worth watching at the half the price.

Are you gonna peel of 5x100 dollars bills to watch the Canucks play Pittsburgh when neither team can ice more than one line of top players?

I mean out of 700 players how many are not much more than AHL talent at best now? 250-300?
Take away half of the best Euros and what's left is hardly worthy of big 4 sport status in the USA
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:47 pm

Take a look, you may have the wrong figures

http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2011/06/2 ... till-date/


The EPL was the start of big money football, big money stadiums, Big International players..... just like most other Pro sports today
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:47 pm

So the rumblings are that the PA will finally present a proposal which includes linkage tomorrow. If that happens we should finally see some progress.

If it doesn't and they table another crap proposal based on fixed numbers, written on a napkin, I'm certain we will see the league cancel more games and set some sort of drop dead date for the season.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Per » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:33 pm

Fred wrote:Take a look, you may have the wrong figures

http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2011/06/2 ... till-date/


The EPL was the start of big money football, big money stadiums, Big International players..... just like most other Pro sports today

From your link:
The first team to win the Premier League, other than Sir Alex Ferguson’s United side, were Blackburn Rovers in their pathbreaking 1994/95 season. With the help of Jack Walker’s millions and legendary manager Kenny Dalglish ( who manages Liverpool now) , Blackburn did the unthinkable and rose from Division One to win the Premier League title in just a few short years. With players as talented as Chris Sutton, Colin Hendry, Tim Sherwood and, of course, Alan Shearer they were worthy champions but unfortunately things unravelled from there with Blackburn suffering relegation just a few years later.

:oops:

The stuff that dreams are made of...

:rockin:

Another advantage is that I can't think of ever hearing of a strike or lockout in any major European sports league. 8-)
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:18 pm

Per wrote:
Fred wrote:Take a look, you may have the wrong figures

http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2011/06/2 ... till-date/


The EPL was the start of big money football, big money stadiums, Big International players..... just like most other Pro sports today

From your link:
The first team to win the Premier League, other than Sir Alex Ferguson’s United side, were Blackburn Rovers in their pathbreaking 1994/95 season. With the help of Jack Walker’s millions and legendary manager Kenny Dalglish ( who manages Liverpool now) , Blackburn did the unthinkable and rose from Division One to win the Premier League title in just a few short years. With players as talented as Chris Sutton, Colin Hendry, Tim Sherwood and, of course, Alan Shearer they were worthy champions but unfortunately things unravelled from there with Blackburn suffering relegation just a few years later.

:oops:
...the stuff that dreams are made of

:rockin:

Another advantage is that I can't think of ever hearing of a strike or lockout in any major European sports league. 8-)


The big red machine would laugh at the notion of a salary cap too, Man U is a proper professional franchise...
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Per » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:41 pm

Fred wrote:The EPL was the start of big money football, big money stadiums, Big International players..... just like most other Pro sports today


actually you need to qualify that:
The EPL was the start of big money football, big money stadiums, Big International players - in England.

The English had fallen behind, and could not compete with the leagues in Italy, Spain and Germany. With the creation of the EPL they could once again start attracting sponsors, world class players and sign lucrative TV contracts. Today they are on par with the Italian and Spanish leagues, and I'd say that it is Germany that is now lagging behind.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Topper » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:26 pm

Good move by the Preds, great for the kids.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBMjPc69Tuk&feature=youtu.be
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Topper wrote:Good move by the Preds, great for the kids.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBMjPc69Tuk&feature=youtu.be

Was there an ulterior motive for posting that here? Its cute but...
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:39 pm

Per wrote:
Fred wrote:The EPL was the start of big money football, big money stadiums, Big International players..... just like most other Pro sports today


actually you need to qualify that:
The EPL was the start of big money football, big money stadiums, Big International players - in England.

The English had fallen behind, and could not compete with the leagues in Italy, Spain and Germany. With the creation of the EPL they could once again start attracting sponsors, world class players and sign lucrative TV contracts. Today they are on par with the Italian and Spanish leagues, and I'd say that it is Germany that is now lagging behind.



Yeah well I assumed there was no English Premier League in Sweden, the point i was interested in making was this concept of mobility from one league to another with promotion is a bit of a fallacy. You don't have the stadium or the finances you can't last in the EPL or likely the equivalent in other EU countries.... money and Stadiums are an essential part of the recipe
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:45 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Per wrote:
Fred wrote:Take a look, you may have the wrong figures

http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2011/06/2 ... till-date/


The EPL was the start of big money football, big money stadiums, Big International players..... just like most other Pro sports today

From your link:
The first team to win the Premier League, other than Sir Alex Ferguson’s United side, were Blackburn Rovers in their pathbreaking 1994/95 season. With the help of Jack Walker’s millions and legendary manager Kenny Dalglish ( who manages Liverpool now) , Blackburn did the unthinkable and rose from Division One to win the Premier League title in just a few short years. With players as talented as Chris Sutton, Colin Hendry, Tim Sherwood and, of course, Alan Shearer they were worthy champions but unfortunately things unravelled from there with Blackburn suffering relegation just a few years later.

:oops:
...the stuff that dreams are made of

:rockin:

Another advantage is that I can't think of ever hearing of a strike or lockout in any major European sports league. 8-)


The big red machine would laugh at the notion of a salary cap too, Man U is a proper professional franchise...



Manchester United is owned off shore and is in huge debt

http://www.boston.com/sports/soccer/201 ... story.html

They may yet follow Glasgow Rangers to the poor house

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheo ... bankruptcy
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Aaronp18 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:44 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Topper wrote:Good move by the Preds, great for the kids.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBMjPc69Tuk&feature=youtu.be

Was there an ulterior motive for posting that here? Its cute but...


But what? I know it's Topper but you might be reading to much into why he posted this.

It looks as though the Preds help sponsor those kids judging by the shoulder logos. Even though they aren't playing they are maintaining their commitment and trying to grow their fan base.

The lockout is doing damage, the Preds are trying to mitigate that.

Or I just completely missed why Topper posted that, wouldn't be the first time :mrgreen:
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