There will be a strike

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Re: There will be a strike

Postby wienerdog » Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:22 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
wienerdog wrote:
Topper wrote: UK...


Why bother? There's no reasoning with a zealot, Tops.

All I know is the Tourette's-like "grab the pitchforks!!" response to you is certainly coming down the pipe - wait for it, wait...

Does Wiener feel better now that he has contributed nothing to the conversation? Have something intelligent to say? say it. Otherwise, condescension is not evidence of IQ...


Lol, I had no idea that resorting to calling your opponent "morally bankrupt" when you are getting destroyed in a debate constituted "something intelligent" "contributed...to the conversation".

I simply called you a zealot, which you are. At the very least, you undeniably argue like one and I defy you refute it.

For the record, sunshine, here's the level of civility you've shown in this discussion in response to everyday forum ribbing:

ukcanuck wrote:
wienerdog wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:balance all that with a guy who spends a life time of 5 am practices with families who sacrifice money, holidays and hours on the road driving to games all in the effort to make it in the big time, only to be told where to play, how to play, how much you are paid and if you dont like it, fuck you go home? There is no one on this site who would accept such working conditions, and its all OK because they get million dollar paycheques? bullshit


FFS™, I hope you're drunk :drink:

Give your Limey head a shake - EVERYONE on this site would accept those working conditions, amigo.


fuck you you would. your not thinking it through, whatever it is you do for a living if your boss told you that he was rolling back your pay, changing your hours of work and transferring you to bumfuck idaho because it suited him better and your only choice was to lump it or completely change careers you would fucking flip and reach for the phone to call your lawyer.
or maybe not, i guess even communist russia had its supporters...


So don't talk to me about condescention. You've been nothing but that in an effort to shriek your point into everyone's face this entire thread.

So, GFY my good sir, and unlike tant, I won't get drawn in by your unreasonable rantings again - even if you offer me a disgustingly sycophantic apology like you did to him.

Clear enough? :mex:
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:56 pm

wienerdog wrote:
Clear enough? :mex:

Yeah its pretty clear and i'll just let your own words stand as there is nothing more I could add to prove my point better...wow
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby SKYO » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:07 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
wienerdog wrote:
Clear enough? :mex:

Yeah its pretty clear and i'll just let your own words stand as there is nothing more I could add to prove my point better...wow

weak comeback uk.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:49 pm

SKYO wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:
wienerdog wrote:
Clear enough? :mex:

Yeah its pretty clear and i'll just let your own words stand as there is nothing more I could add to prove my point better...wow

weak comeback uk.


Sorry SKYO I didnt want to encourage the mental midget, it just wouldn't be fair, but if I wanted or felt the need to defend myself :
wienerdog wrote:Lol, I had no idea that resorting to calling your opponent "morally bankrupt" when you are getting destroyed in a debate constituted "something intelligent" "contributed...to the conversation".

I simply called you a zealot, which you are. At the very least, you undeniably argue like one and I defy you refute it.


Actually I said 'ideologically bankrupt” It’s slightly different but I'm sure even you can understand, morals are the things you don't have and ideology is the crap they feed you at your weekly neo-Nazi meetings there Vienerschnitzel. And honestly, How do you even keep up with the discussions around here with your constantly checking your dictionary for the meanings of all the multi syllabic words let alone have a clue whether I am having my ass handed to me or not...wait I guess since you are an expert in being an ass...

wienerdog wrote:For the record, sunshine, here's the level of civility you've shown in this discussion in response to everyday forum ribbing:

OK lets have a look shall we?
ukcanuck wrote:balance all that with a guy who spends a life time of 5 am practices with families who sacrifice money, holidays and hours on the road driving to games all in the effort to make it in the big time, only to be told where to play, how to play, how much you are paid and if you don’t like it, fuck you go home? There is no one on this site who would accept such working conditions, and its all OK because they get million dollar paycheques? Bullshit

I guess I do say fuck and bullshit in this paragraph that is rather rude, but condescending? I don’t think so...

wienerdog wrote:FFS™, I hope you're drunk :drink:
oh but this is condescending!

wienerdog wrote:Give your Limey head a shake - EVERYONE on this site would accept those working conditions, amigo.
and look at this, a racial slur! twice! As well as condescension! hmm maybe I am not far off about those meetings...
But wait YOU said these things not me and look both in direct response to my not condescending point too, Golly Gee look at that :)

wienerdog wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:fuck you you would. Youre not thinking it through, whatever it is you do for a living if your boss told you that he was rolling back your pay, changing your hours of work and transferring you to bumfuck idaho because it suited him better and your only choice was to lump it or completely change careers you would fucking flip and reach for the phone to call your lawyer.
or maybe not, I guess even communist Russia had its supporters...

Ok maybe after being called a limey, accused of being drunk and frustrated that you simply cant get a simple point like the one above, I did get a little testy.. Perhaps I was even guilty of, what was the term you used ? Oh yeah "everyday forum ribbing'

wienerdog wrote: So don't talk to me about condescension. You've been nothing but that in an effort to shriek your point into everyone's face this entire thread.

Perhaps now that I have rubbed your silly little nose in it, you might be able to grasp that it was you who has been condescending with your tone, you who has used an example of your inability to grasp simple concepts as a means to discredit my intelligence, and actually it was you who interjected into a conversation to neither add anything nor reflect on anything that was said but it seems only to enflame emotions. oh my, isn't that being a troll? :(

wienerdog wrote:So, GFY my good sir, and unlike tnt, I won't get drawn in by your unreasonable rantings again - even if you offer me a disgustingly sycophantic apology like you did to him.

Actually since you interjected yourself into an existing conversation in the first place you technically cant get drawn in again like Tant
Sycophantic thats a big word for you, very impressive, too bad its used in the wrong context. you see for my apology to be sycophantic, Tant would have to be an influential person around here rather than just a guy who I know went through some shit a couple of summers ago with a tornado and his family (you know a ternader?) and yeah I think the guy deserves some respect. but good try with the spelling anyway :) I'm surprised you managed tha...oh wait.. You must have spell check that’s right! lol communicating with the world is a lot easier since Microsoft brought out Word hey?

wienerdog wrote:Clear enough? :mex:

Right back at ya "sunshine :)
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:33 am

We all know this will settle somewhere near a 50-50 split. The players know it and the owners would take it. The real issues are the issues everyone wants us to think are not important. Ferh said it himself, whats in it for the players to accept a lower split? He said the NHL not only wants to lower the players percentage but they want to take away rights. And that my friends is the real crux of the matter.

How do the players get to a point of accepting 50% or less? Well, they do so by winning the small battles on age of UFA, entry level deals, contract lengths, front loading, NTC/NMC, arbitration, automatic increases for RFA's, waiver rules etc, etc , etc.

They get it by keeping the cap linked to revenues and the ability for it to increase every year, not by fixing the cap each year or by having set increases built in.

The players know there will always be a cap. They know they get too much in the split. They know they will have to give some of that up and live with the cap so they will want to maximize mobility earlier in their careers. The change in the last CBA to an earlier UFA age directly led to a major change in how players were paid. Remember the days when players got paid for what they did in the past and not their current potential? Players today get bigger pay days younger, notice the rash and extensions before the CBA ran out. If the players can get the eligibility of FA changed again in their favour they can live with giving up a piece of the pie. If they can keep the cap rising they can live with giving up another piece. If they can prevent restrictions being placed on term they can give up another piece.

They key for the players to "win" is to keep their mobility intact and provide themselves with more options earlier in their careers. They need to fix up waivers so more players have a better chance of not being buried in the minors.

The owners to "win" don't only need to get closer to 50% but they need to restrict FA more, get rid or arbitration and automatic increases for RFA, limit NTC/NMC, restrict contract lengths.

The devil is in the details and even though they want us all to believe it is about how much pie they all get to eat it is the little things that are key to fixing the CBA, and fix is subjective here.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:11 pm

Anyone know what's the current split between owners vs players right now? Is it like 60-40 for the players?


Hockey Widow wrote:We all know this will settle somewhere near a 50-50 split. The players know it and the owners would take it. The real issues are the issues everyone wants us to think are not important. Ferh said it himself, whats in it for the players to accept a lower split? He said the NHL not only wants to lower the players percentage but they want to take away rights. And that my friends is the real crux of the matter.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:27 am

I believe it's 57 to 43 in favour of the players how ever what make it a little more confusing is of that split which revenues are included in the total split.

Interesting point IMO is the players who are all over their moral rights, apparently have no concern about heading to Europe and taking another players job away. Players going to the AHL means players will loose their job and other will move to the ECHL and some will be looking for jobs outside of hockey.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Mondi » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:23 am

Strangelove wrote:
Mondi wrote:I said it before and I'll say it again, the owners are psychopaths


Who needs psychiatrists when we have Mondi! :drink:

psst Mondi only a psychopath would lable all those chaps "psychopaths".


Oh come on old chap, nobody likes a good dose of hyperbole more than you...

The owners are acting irrationally...or without reason. They are being unreasonable.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Strangelove » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:48 am

Mondi wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Mondi wrote:I said it before and I'll say it again, the owners are psychopaths


Who needs psychiatrists when we have Mondi! :drink:

psst Mondi only a psychopath would lable all those chaps "psychopaths".


Oh come on old chap, nobody likes a good dose of hyperbole more than you...

The owners are acting irrationally...or without reason. They are being unreasonable.


OR you're missing something as per usual. Image

The pwners are like the Israelis, the pwnees (players) are like the palestinians.

And y'know wot, that's exactly how it should be. :thumbs:
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby dbr » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:11 am

Fred wrote:Interesting point IMO is the players who are all over their moral rights, apparently have no concern about heading to Europe and taking another players job away. Players going to the AHL means players will loose their job and other will move to the ECHL and some will be looking for jobs outside of hockey.


"They took our jobs," bah. This happens all the time whether it is in the regular course of events (Nail Yakupov and Justin Schultz will be taking players jobs this year, so what?) or exceptional circumstances like a lockout suddenly making 700 of the best hockey players on earth available.

It's unfortunate for the inferior players but nobody has an absolute right to a stable living playing hockey so I don't really see what merit there is in bashing players for signing contracts offered to them.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Mondi » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:15 am

You must be loving Mr. Harper's mature approach to international relations lately. When we disagree with countries the best thing to do is stop talking. Right ol' bean?

Harper for Statesmen of the Year!

The owners own the league, at the end of the day they can do whatever they want. Doesn't make them rational, reasonable or, and most importantly, honourable.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:02 am

Mondi wrote:You must be loving Mr. Harper's mature approach to international relations lately. When we disagree with countries the best thing to do is stop talking. Right ol' bean?

Harper for Statesmen of the Year!

The owners own the league, at the end of the day they can do whatever they want. Doesn't make them rational, reasonable or, and most importantly, honourable.

Honour among thieves... tis laughable.ha.ha..ha...ha....ha.......h
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:08 am

dbr wrote:nobody has an absolute right


Correct. Who all would you include within that group.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:11 am

Hockey Widow wrote:We all know this will settle somewhere near a 50-50 split. The players know it and the owners would take it. The real issues are the issues everyone wants us to think are not important. Ferh said it himself, whats in it for the players to accept a lower split? He said the NHL not only wants to lower the players percentage but they want to take away rights. And that my friends is the real crux of the matter.

How do the players get to a point of accepting 50% or less? Well, they do so by winning the small battles on age of UFA, entry level deals, contract lengths, front loading, NTC/NMC, arbitration, automatic increases for RFA's, waiver rules etc, etc , etc.

They get it by keeping the cap linked to revenues and the ability for it to increase every year, not by fixing the cap each year or by having set increases built in.

The players know there will always be a cap. They know they get too much in the split. They know they will have to give some of that up and live with the cap so they will want to maximize mobility earlier in their careers. The change in the last CBA to an earlier UFA age directly led to a major change in how players were paid. Remember the days when players got paid for what they did in the past and not their current potential? Players today get bigger pay days younger, notice the rash and extensions before the CBA ran out. If the players can get the eligibility of FA changed again in their favour they can live with giving up a piece of the pie. If they can keep the cap rising they can live with giving up another piece. If they can prevent restrictions being placed on term they can give up another piece.

They key for the players to "win" is to keep their mobility intact and provide themselves with more options earlier in their careers. They need to fix up waivers so more players have a better chance of not being buried in the minors.

The owners to "win" don't only need to get closer to 50% but they need to restrict FA more, get rid or arbitration and automatic increases for RFA, limit NTC/NMC, restrict contract lengths.

The devil is in the details and even though they want us all to believe it is about how much pie they all get to eat it is the little things that are key to fixing the CBA, and fix is subjective here.


Clearly in my opinion the reason why Bettman wont talk about anything other than the percent of HRR. Once he gets his way on that, he can hard bargain the rest because any removal of favourable conditions free agency length of contracts etc, no matter how small,will be a win win for the owners. And whether anyone wants to admit it or not. The reason we are in a lockout again is because the owners won last time around, and if they win again this time we will be right back here again at the expiration of this CBA they are negotiating now.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:16 am

Strangelove wrote:
The pwners are like the Israelis, the pwnees (players) are like the Palestinians.

And y'know wot, that's exactly how it should be. :thumbs:

You an me are just like Catholics and Protestants
I'm with you on the metaphor but not as it applies to this particular conspiracy theory
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