There will be a strike

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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:50 am

How much or how many millions has the NHL forked out to run and support the Coyotes ? According to CapGeek they run a player payroll of $45 million annually that's with out travel arena rent et al. Which is the other franchise that is likely to be taken over by the league.

If we're honest there's likely about 10 teams that make an acceptable return from what I've read. Although I doubt if we'll see contraction its the only real solution I suppose
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Re: Here's a little diatribe on revenue sharing:

Postby Tciso » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:50 am

wienerdog wrote:To create a competitive League that has parity and that produces good hockey for us to watch, the best one could hope for is a pool of 30 owners that all want to spend to their best capacity to be ultra-competitive with one another.

That bolded part is the key. If the costs of running any given franchise are outstripping it's ability to turn a profit, that particular owner will quickly lose interest in spending money to remain competitive; he will start to cut costs - just like any business that's in the red in any industry would. In the NHL, the first place that such cuts will happen are in player salaries.

And that's where League-wide competition slides, parity falters, and certain teams are eventually left to languish in permanent mediocrity, never getting a leg up to increase their competitiveness and thereby increase franchise value.

Enter the concept of revenue sharing to try and prevent this from happening.

The problem is that for-profit enterprises (like major pro sports teams) hate the concept of revenue sharing. It goes against every principle of capitalist ideals. It only makes business sense if it can strengthen your bottom line.

<snipped a lot of good stuff>


The problem is magnified when owners start to believe that they are running a team in a capitalist/free market environment, which they are not. The have a product as individual teams that only has value if other teams exist. Running it using a capitalistic dogma ensures that profits are driven out of the league for all owners due to competition. 30 companies in any industry will force it to run with no profit margin. Yes, some companies will make $$, but others will lose. In the long run, there will be less teams, devaluing the remaining teams, until there is only one team left. (and yes, in the 2067 season, the Maple Leafs, being the only team remaining in the NHL will be swept in the 1st round by the Association of Retired Zamboni Drivers, making it an even 100 years without a cup)

Obviously, the NHL is not a capitalist/free market environment, and instead of focusing on individual team profits, at the expense of other team's profits, the owners should be focusing on maximizing total profits for all and ensuring all teams are profitable. There's a lot more to it than just a salary cap. Growing the pie is by far more important. Which is why a strike/lockout makes little sense, as both players and owners lose, and only spouses and the home renovation stores win.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby dbr » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:19 am

Fred wrote:How much or how many millions has the NHL forked out to run and support the Coyotes ? According to CapGeek they run a player payroll of $45 million annually that's with out travel arena rent et al. Which is the other franchise that is likely to be taken over by the league.


I seem to recall hearing that losses were in the range of about $30m/year, but even if you double that (so that one half of the league's losses are from the Coyotes) it still has nothing to do with the fact that while player costs have risen at more or less the same rate as revenues, non-player costs would have to have nearly doubled to make the league's claims true.

If we're honest there's likely about 10 teams that make an acceptable return from what I've read. Although I doubt if we'll see contraction its the only real solution I suppose


Relocation would do the same, and would be an even better option if it were to a city in which the conditions for even a modestly profitable franchise were present.

That an a relatively robust revenue sharing structure and a reasonable ding to player salaries would probably be enough for the vast majority of teams.. 27 or 28 out of 30.. to be on stable ground.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ODB » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:32 am

BTW, NOT A FLAME ... JUST AN OBSERVATION ... :P
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Aaronp18 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:50 am



Love the game, hate the league!

That should be the fans motto through this whole dispute.

At least my league starts on Saturday. I pay almost $800 in order to play the game I love.

:evil:
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Madcombinepilot » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:20 am

meh. so there is a strike.

poker ratings were slipping anyways.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:52 am

Aaronp18 wrote:


Love the game, hate the league!

That should be the fans motto through this whole dispute.

At least my league starts on Saturday. I pay almost $800 in order to play the game I love.

:evil:

800 bucks holy crap, is that the going rate for beer league these day? Where do you skate pacific coloseum?
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Aaronp18 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:40 am

ukcanuck wrote:800 bucks holy crap, is that the going rate for beer league these day? Where do you skate pacific coloseum?


Planet Ice.

$12,240 per team.

Pretty standard these days for roughly a 40 game season playoffs included.

Icetime in the lower mainland is a rarer commodity than drinking water in Mexico City.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Vpete » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:47 am

Aaronp18 wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:800 bucks holy crap, is that the going rate for beer league these day? Where do you skate pacific coloseum?


Planet Ice.

$12,240 per team.

Pretty standard these days for roughly a 40 game season playoffs included.

Icetime in the lower mainland is a rarer commodity than drinking water in Mexico City.


That's not too bad. Shit growing up there were only two public rinks on the west side of Vancouver, Kerrisdale and Kits. I think that's it right now too unless you count UBC. Ice economics are terrible and no one could make money on ice in Vancouver with the cost of real estate.

Now in Winnipeg there's more ice than you can handle and that doesn't include outdoor when it arrives.

What's the going rate for an hour of ice Aaron?
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Strangelove » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:42 pm



Nice, I was just about to open my window, stick my head out, and yell:

“I’m as mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore!!!”

But then I remembered my promise:

“Just leave me alone in my living room with my toaster, TV, and steel-belted radials and I won’t say anything.”

:mrgreen:

i STILL say no lockout. :thumbs:
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Aaronp18 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:36 pm

Vpete wrote:What's the going rate for an hour of ice Aaron?


Depending on the time of day, roughly $200-300 per hour.

Can get some late night/early morning/last minute rentals for cheaper of course.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Cornuck » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:00 pm

We used to rent ice after the bars (usually the Scottsdale) closed. Can't remember what we paid, but it wasn't much (either was our playing).
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Canuck-One » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:19 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote:meh. so there is a strike.

poker ratings were slipping anyways.


Actually these isn't a strke it is a management created LOCK -OUT.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby SKYO » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:16 pm

Image

Ah well, the good news is they seem to be having a ton of meetings lately, could come down right to the wire next week! :)
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:21 am

From the Shane Doan post

This Coyote thing is FAR from over. For one thing, Jamison is not a viable "owner". He doesn't have the capital. He's basically a broker looking to get others to invest in that mess. Look how long its been since he's been trying to "raise the cash". Even if he gets the deal done, they say it takes roughly $40 million to have a team function due to massive overhead costs. Where's that dough going to come from? Buying the team is just the start of the money drain.



massive overhead costs
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