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Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:55 am
by Arachnid
Fred wrote:
Arachnid wrote:
Strangelove wrote:The average NHLer earns more money in one year than the average union worker earns in a lifetime.

NHLers are one-percenters (upper-end of dat dere) as are the owners.

All class-struggle, food-on-the-table conversation is off-topic.
Exactly, now lets talk about the oh so hard done by owners who are businessmen. If you run your business right, you make a profit, if you lose money, you should get out of that business, now if you don't give a shit if you make money or not because it's not your core business then obviously you don't give a fuck about the fans and the little people who make their living off the NHL.

Time to make the fans have a say in the game. Without us, they are nothing.

Stakeholders!

I assume you're referring to the owners who put up multi millions to have a franchise and then loose money annually after that :lol: I can't think of many players who play a season and end up owing money at the end of the season
We have a lot of small businesses that come and go in our neighbourhood. Some are good people. They open a business to make a living, a profit. It's a trendy, high rent place where dreams die fast or thrive.
Some businesses are gone within months of opening. You almost feel bad for them.
But the reality of it is....they are dumbasses.
They never had a business plan, they never thought it through and they made bad choices.
THE OWNERS ARE THE ONES THAT GAVE OUT THOSE LUDICROUSLY LARGE CONTRACTS
And you want to put this all on the players?
They are both greedy and the fans are the ones that are paying for it now and in the future.

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:58 am
by Topper
Arachnid wrote:It's a trendy, high rent place where dreams die fast.
I could have guessed you'd live in a neighbourhood like this.

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:12 am
by Arachnid
Topper wrote:
Arachnid wrote:It's a trendy, high rent place where dreams die fast.
I could have guessed you'd live in a neighbourhood like this.
That's the whole city Monsieur Dumas, gentrification has come to this metropolis en mass, I was here long before that happened, then again, I never chose to work in a shallow trendy restaurant 8-)

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:39 am
by ukcanuck
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:
Can't wait for election time and Clarke v Dix

Just sayin...
Why the hell would you care about a provinicial election in a province you don't live in ?

Most of the people I talk to are terrified about the NDP returning to power. They drove the province into the toilet during the 90's causing droves of businesses and people to flee BC en masse.

I for one am not looking forward to seeing my provincial income tax skyrocket and seeing no improvement in services , hospital lineups or employment. I guess we will get a bloated govt, more pandering to the unions, maybe some more fast ferries, handouts to the welfare slobs and a smaller paycheque. Maybe the janitors at the hospitals can get back to being paid like skilled tradesmen despite the fact they are pretty much unskilled. Only in the NDP world can a janitor make $35 an hour.

No idea why the hell someone who lives 5000 miles away is so full of glee about seeing a province get shitcanned again.
Hey spent 80% of my life there, my family is there a d my daughter is in school there. Why wouldn't I care? Also I would not be happy or gleeful to see the province go in the toilet at all. I just happen to like politics as a spectator sport. elections are a blast, loved the recent Obama/Romney go around too...

Plus how do you know I wouldnt send a vote for the bc conservatives if I had one anyway? I've already swung wildly from the far left to the far right on two issues discussed here...

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:47 am
by Fred
Arachnid wrote:[We have a lot of small businesses that come and go in our neighbourhood. Some are good people. They open a business to make a living, a profit. It's a trendy, high rent place where dreams die fast or thrive.
Some businesses are gone within months of opening. You almost feel bad for them.
But the reality of it is....they are dumbasses.
They never had a business plan, they never thought it through and they made bad choices.
THE OWNERS ARE THE ONES THAT GAVE OUT THOSE LUDICROUSLY LARGE CONTRACTS
And you want to put this all on the players?
They are both greedy and the fans are the ones that are paying for it now and in the future.
I have mentioned this before but I continue to be astounded that the silent enemy in player negotiations and the ones that likely make 50% of the problems are the agents, They're the ones that keep playing off one team against another. And don't think the players are not aware of what's going on...the agents work for them. Agents are most closely aligned with the PA to boot and players are often given instructions or pressured to set precedents with salaries.

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:29 pm
by Topper
Fred, the agents are hired by the players to do just that. Their role in the negotiations is no different from the GM's who are hired by the owners.

While folks lay blame for contract limits on the owners or the players, it is the agents and GM operating within the framework of the CBA of the time who negotiated these deals.

The five year term is more about reigning in GM's within the terms of the CBA. Any attempt to reign them in outside of the CBA could be interpreted as collusion.

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:44 pm
by Fred
Exactly the agents are the mouth piece for the players. This allows the player and their union to keep a holier than thou stance, unsullied by the grinding out more and more money and for ever setting the bar higher.

The other thing that never surfaces is, we know some owners make big losses, but no one ever here's of players suffering huge losses. The risk factor is carried in full by the owners.

These sort of facts are either deliberately hidden or conveniently swept under the mat like they never happen

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:33 pm
by Topper

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:07 pm
by Per
Henrik Lundqvist's two cents:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/ ... 4VKJ1juFTJ

Wonder if he is contemplating a career in politics or with the diplomatic corps? :?

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:08 pm
by Arachnid
Fred wrote:Exactly the agents are the mouth piece for the players. This allows the player and their union to keep a holier than thou stance, unsullied by the grinding out more and more money and for ever setting the bar higher.

The other thing that never surfaces is, we know some owners make big losses, but no one ever here's of players suffering huge losses. The risk factor is carried in full by the owners.

These sort of facts are either deliberately hidden or conveniently swept under the mat like they never happen
What utter bullshit. How a bout the owners (Phoenix, Edmonton) holding cities hostage demanding the taxpayers pay for the arenas. You can cook the books any way you like to show a loss or a profit. Companies do it all the time and remember, it's not a small business owner you talk of, it's a corporations.
You lame ass attempt to put this solely on the players, union and agents is annoying at best and down right ignorant and stupid at worst.

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:35 pm
by Fred
The only thing you avoid is the facts.

Players are making more than ever in the hisory of the game.

They have no risk ( other than injury which they insure against with one of those big businesses you hate so much )

They suffer no losses

They ALL negoiate their own salaries via their own stooge, agents

As to Phx....the business is that good they CAN"T find any one to buy the club. Why not ?? owners can off set losses etc etc etc. well no one wants the franchise and a number of other teams to for that manner. The NHL is running out of prospective or future owners. Edomonton is marginal, you conviently forget that only a few years ago they were going to leave town :lol: If they don't get the arena it might be just the last straw. Citizens can say no and the NHL will be gone the next day, it's their choice....

Owners do suffer losses.

Ever think your view is upsetting to others, two way street buddy

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:00 pm
by Aaronp18
This is floating around the twitterverse right now.

Rest easy, here is your new CBA

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:24 pm
by okcanuck
[quote="Fred"]The only thing you avoid is the facts.

Players are making more than ever in the hisory of the game.

They have no risk ( other than injury which they insure against with one of those big businesses you hate so much )

They suffer no losses

They ALL negoiate their own salaries via their own stooge, agents

As to Phx....the business is that good they CAN"T find any one to buy the club. Why not ?? owners can off set losses etc etc etc. well no one wants the franchise and a number of other teams to for that manner. The NHL is running out of prospective or future owners. Edomonton is marginal, you conviently forget that only a few years ago they were going to leave town :lol: If they don't get the arena it might be just the last straw. Citizens can say no and the NHL will be gone the next day, it's their choice...;.quote


The situation in Phx is very simple, nobody in their right mind wants to travel 1 1/2 hours to see a hockey game. They built the arena in the wrong place and Buttman with his wet dreams still thinks Phx. is a viable operation. What a fucking loser.

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:14 pm
by Blob Mckenzie
ukcanuck wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:
Can't wait for election time and Clarke v Dix

Just sayin...
Why the hell would you care about a provinicial election in a province you don't live in ?

Most of the people I talk to are terrified about the NDP returning to power. They drove the province into the toilet during the 90's causing droves of businesses and people to flee BC en masse.

I for one am not looking forward to seeing my provincial income tax skyrocket and seeing no improvement in services , hospital lineups or employment. I guess we will get a bloated govt, more pandering to the unions, maybe some more fast ferries, handouts to the welfare slobs and a smaller paycheque. Maybe the janitors at the hospitals can get back to being paid like skilled tradesmen despite the fact they are pretty much unskilled. Only in the NDP world can a janitor make $35 an hour.

No idea why the hell someone who lives 5000 miles away is so full of glee about seeing a province get shitcanned again.
Hey spent 80% of my life there, my family is there a d my daughter is in school there. Why wouldn't I care? Also I would not be happy or gleeful to see the province go in the toilet at all. I just happen to like politics as a spectator sport. elections are a blast, loved the recent Obama/Romney go around too...

Plus how do you know I wouldnt send a vote for the bc conservatives if I had one anyway? I've already swung wildly from the far left to the far right on two issues discussed here...
My mistake.... I thought you were a tea sipping, crumpit eating, urine bomb, blood bomb tossing soccer hooligan from England. Didn't know you were an expat.

As far as the BC political scene goes the NDP will crush the Libs in the next election. Too many clueless people will vote in the NDP because they are pissed at the Liberals. I guess they forgot about Glen Clark, Mike Harcourt, Joy Macphail , Uujal Dosanj, Moe Sihota, Harry Lali, Mike Farnworth etc ruining this province in the 90's.

Re: There will be a strike

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:15 pm
by Topper
Moe Dix get the vote of the chicks.