There will be a strike

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

User avatar
okcanuck
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:11 am
Location: Port Alberni

Re: There will be a strike

Post by okcanuck »

No I havent,but u didn't answer my question
User avatar
ukcanuck
MVP
MVP
Posts: 4591
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck »

okcanuck wrote:No I havent,but u didn't answer my question
Those going over are locked out not on strike so they are not scabs and scum of the earth taking a job of a fellow worker trying to collectively bargain. This is a huge technical distinction...

but as for your ethical conundrum, what job is being taken? Since the lockout was unplanned (if you want to believe that gangster and proven liar Bettman) its safe to assume that all of the teams in Europe have their rosters set and under contract without NHL players, now that some NHL players are temporarily available for an undetermined period of time they will naturally take advantage and some european players will temporarily lose roster spots but they will still be under contract and still have their jobs...It would be stupid for a team to let their lesser players go and hope that the lockout lasts the year because they would be fuk ked if a CBA gets signed this season and they resume play here.
User avatar
Tiger
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1742
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:09 pm
Contact:

Re: There will be a strike

Post by Tiger »

UK Canuck wrote:
" Those going over are locked out not on strike so they are not scabs and scum of the earth taking a job of a fellow worker trying to collectively bargain. This is a huge technical distinction..."
The last time the players called a strike was in 1992 . They had the choice of time so of course called it towards the end of the season and before the playoffs .. in April.. The owners had to knuckle under or lose a huge chunk of change from playoff revenue.. Thats the reason that its a " lockout " not a strike.. The owners are not going to be bent over again... No way will they start a season again with the threat of a strike over their heads..

And yes, before you ask I have been a shop steward in a union and have been part of an ownership group that broke a union and had them decertified.. :).. F the millionaire commie rats !
" If you cant beat them in the alley - you can't beat them on the ice
User avatar
ukcanuck
MVP
MVP
Posts: 4591
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck »

Tiger wrote:UK Canuck wrote:
" Those going over are locked out not on strike so they are not scabs and scum of the earth taking a job of a fellow worker trying to collectively bargain. This is a huge technical distinction..."
The last time the players called a strike was in 1992 . They had the choice of time so of course called it towards the end of the season and before the playoffs .. in April.. The owners had to knuckle under or lose a huge chunk of change from playoff revenue.. Thats the reason that its a " lockout " not a strike.. The owners are not going to be bent over again... No way will they start a season again with the threat of a strike over their heads..

And yes, before you ask I have been a shop steward in a union and have been part of an ownership group that broke a union and had them decertified.. :).. F the millionaire commie rats !
Seriously!? That's why? I didn't realise that you were on Bettmans staff! oh wait you don't suppose maybe the NHL has locked out the players as a negotiating tactic to pressure the players into agreeing to a CBA they don't want and probably wouldn't sign willingly do you?


btw why would you publically admit to being a turncoat and union buster? I'm supposed to be impressed that knowing the things that unions have given society doesn't shut your gloating? And what has that got to do with your wrong opinion?
User avatar
okcanuck
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:11 am
Location: Port Alberni

Re: There will be a strike

Post by okcanuck »

ukcanuck wrote:
okcanuck wrote:No I havent,but u didn't answer my question
Those going over are locked out not on strike so they are not scabs and scum of the earth taking a job of a fellow worker trying to collectively bargain. This is a huge technical distinction...

but as for your ethical conundrum, what job is being taken? Since the lockout was unplanned (if you want to believe that gangster and proven liar Bettman) its safe to assume that all of the teams in Europe have their rosters set and under contract without NHL players, now that some NHL players are temporarily available for an undetermined period of time they will naturally take advantage and some european players will temporarily lose roster spots but they will still be under contract and still have their jobs...It would be stupid for a team to let their lesser players go and hope that the lockout lasts the year because they would be fuk ked if a CBA gets signed this season and they resume play here.
So.... some euopeon players will temporarily lose roster spots because of NHL players taking their spot. How can this not be players f---ing other players? How would you like it if you were that player, being such a strong unionist ? Do you know for sure that this is a temporary situation? Christ this could easily go on all year.
No, I think the NHLPA players should stay away from the europeon leagues and fight the good fight back here,you know solidarity and all that.
griz
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 453
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Post by griz »

ukcanuck wrote:btw why would you publically admit to being a turncoat and union buster? I'm supposed to be impressed that knowing the things that unions have given society doesn't shut your gloating? And what has that got to do with your wrong opinion?
Clearly you're taking this stuff personal. I don't see any gloating from Tiger. You're publically admitting to be a company man. So what? If we can't talk about this shit how would you ever understand your position better?

Unions aren't all good man. There is a time and place for the ideal of unions but they can grow into monsters that are bad for the country or the system they operate within. Unions are for themselves after all. There's loads of stuff online about this. Here's a few quick links I came across :

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawk ... page/full/
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... ca/258405/
http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/why-unions-a ... r-workers/
User avatar
herb
CC Legend
Posts: 3020
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: There will be a strike

Post by herb »

Mondi wrote:
herb wrote:If every single fan called the league and gave their two cents, would it make a lick of a difference?

Regular season games have officially been cancelled, and that really pisses me off.

I called: 212-789-2000
Did anyone pick up?
Yes! Which totally surprised me. I hadn't really pre prepared anything to say, which was unfortunate to say the least.
User avatar
Meds
MVP
MVP
Posts: 13325
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Post by Meds »

TSN wrote: The sides have agreed to sit down together in New York on Wednesday and Thursday, but deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Monday that he expects the conversation to cover secondary issues, including "health and safety, medical care, drug testing, rent and mortgage reimbursements (and) grievances."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407017
Are you shitting me???? These guys make millions of dollars but are reimbursed by the team for their rent and/or mortgage? That had better be a joke. I can understand if this is in regards to AHL call-ups who need to rent or setup in a hotel, but not for NHL regulars. If you rent and get traded then you rent somewhere else. If you have a mortgage then you sell or retain the equity of the house. If you're making more than $500K/year, which every NHL regular does make, then I think there is a SERIOUS problem with our society and these athletes in general when there are people below the poverty line in every major city who can barely make enough to pay their own rent in some meager dwelling but these millionaires are making their outrageous salaries and not having to foot any of their own basic costs?

One more strike against the players.
User avatar
ukcanuck
MVP
MVP
Posts: 4591
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck »

Mëds wrote:
TSN wrote: The sides have agreed to sit down together in New York on Wednesday and Thursday, but deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Monday that he expects the conversation to cover secondary issues, including "health and safety, medical care, drug testing, rent and mortgage reimbursements (and) grievances."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407017
Are you shitting me???? These guys make millions of dollars but are reimbursed by the team for their rent and/or mortgage? That had better be a joke. I can understand if this is in regards to AHL call-ups who need to rent or setup in a hotel, but not for NHL regulars. If you rent and get traded then you rent somewhere else. If you have a mortgage then you sell or retain the equity of the house. If you're making more than $500K/year, which every NHL regular does make, then I think there is a SERIOUS problem with our society and these athletes in general when there are people below the poverty line in every major city who can barely make enough to pay their own rent in some meager dwelling but these millionaires are making their outrageous salaries and not having to foot any of their own basic costs?

One more strike against the players.
But corporate welfare for the owners is all good right? Tax breaks, subsidies and incentives- sweetheart deals like the one Katz is bending the city of Edmonton over for is perfectly fine??
Fred
CC Legend
Posts: 3435
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Post by Fred »

ukcanuck wrote:But corporate welfare for the owners is all good right? Tax breaks, subsidies and incentives- sweetheart deals like the one Katz is bending the city of Edmonton over for is perfectly fine??
As I understand sporting events bring in HUGE dollars for cities, they like that. They like the city to be promoted Just like u negoiate with the Union you do the same with the city and Province. Should they be exempt from this ?
cheers
Potatoe1
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1612
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Post by Potatoe1 »

Mëds wrote: Are you shitting me???? These guys make millions of dollars but are reimbursed by the team for their rent and/or mortgage? That had better be a joke. I can understand if this is in regards to AHL call-ups who need to rent or setup in a hotel, but not for NHL regulars. If you rent and get traded then you rent somewhere else. If you have a mortgage then you sell or retain the equity of the house. If you're making more than $500K/year, which every NHL regular does make, then I think there is a SERIOUS problem with our society and these athletes in general when there are people below the poverty line in every major city who can barely make enough to pay their own rent in some meager dwelling but these millionaires are making their outrageous salaries and not having to foot any of their own basic costs?

One more strike against the players.
You are making something out of nothing.

Per diems, stipends, and mortgage rebates are small potatoes compared to the billions in total compensation.

Dont sweat the small stuff.

Anyway this lock out is stating to get incredibly annoying. The solution seems so obvious.....

If the players main issue is that the NHL honor current contracts then all you have to do is introduce a slow cap reduction down to 50% over the course of a few seasons and voila, everyone is happy.

This is not like the last time where there were massive philosophical differences between the 2 sides.

I guess we just have to wait another month or 2 for the players to truly start missing their paychecks and the owners to get closer to the part of the seasons where they make the majority of their profit.
User avatar
Aaronp18
MVP
MVP
Posts: 4670
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:36 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Post by Aaronp18 »

Mëds wrote: One more strike against the players.
Found the Article in an old CBA that covered this topic. Why you're getting upset about something the players negotiated in good faith and the owners have agreed upon is beyond me.

It also seems as though it's mainly when players are relocated via trade or team relocation that some of their mortgage or rent costs are covered for 6 months. Basically enough time for the player to decide if he wants to live permanently in the city he's just been moved to.

14.1. Rent/Mortgage Expenses.

(a) A player whose contract is assigned (whether by trade,
waiver including players exempt from waivers, waiver draft,
expansion or team relocation) from one Club to another shall be
reimbursed from the assignee-Club (or his own Club in the case of
relocation) a sum equal to six months' rent or mortgage, as the
case may be, on his living quarters in the city from which he is
assigned; provided, however, that such reimbursement shall be
made only if and to the extent that the player is legally
obligated to make and does make such payment and, provided,
further, that the Club's obligation shall in no event exceed for
the 1995/96 and 1996/97 seasons, $2,500 per month, for the
1997/98 and 1998/99 seasons, $2,600 per month and for the 1999/00
season, $2,700 per month. Any such payments shall be made on a
pro rata basis if a full month is not involved. A player subject
to any such aforesaid assignment is referred to as an "Assigned
Player."

14.2. Moving Expenses. The reasonable moving expenses
incurred by a player who is assigned during the playing season by
one Club to another Club and moves to the area where it is
located shall be paid by the Club to which the player was
assigned (or his own Club in the case of a relocation). If for
family reasons the player delays moving his family to the area to
which he is assigned, no moving expenses incurred at the time of
assignment by the Player shall be paid by the Club but the
reasonable moving expenses incurred by the player in connection
with the move of his family to the area to which he is assigned
shall be paid by the Club to which he was assigned (or his own
Club in the case of a relocation). In the case of any other move
directed by a Club during the playing season, which is not part
of disciplinary action, the Club shall pay the reasonable moving
expenses incurred by the player. "Reasonable moving expenses"
shall include the costs of moving player's automobile (two
automobiles if player is married). A player will have the right
to relocate within 12 months after the date of assignment, except
a player on a Player Contract deemed to be a "Termination
Contract" in accordance with Transition Rule 4B must relocate the
earliest of (a) the end of the regular season; (b) when he
re-signs with a new Club or (c) when he has been authorized to
relocate by the Club. In the event that an assignment of a
player by one Club to another Club or a team relocation occurs
during the period between playing seasons, the reasonable moving
expenses incurred by the player shall be paid by the Club to
which he is assigned (or by his own Club in the case of a team
relocation) if the player maintained a year-round home at the
time of an assignment in the city from which he was assigned, and
moves during the first playing season following an assignment
from said area to the area of the Club to which he was assigned.

14.3. Hotel Accommodations. The Club acquiring a player
through a trade shall provide the player a single room hotel
accommodation at the Club's expense for a period up to twenty-one
days in the city to which he has been traded.

14.4. (a) Prior to its reimbursing an Assigned Player as
provided in this Article 14 an assignee-Club (or his own Club in
the case of a team relocation) may require satisfactory proof
that the player has paid the amounts for which he seeks
reimbursement, and, in the case of rent or mortgage
reimbursements, satisfactory proof (e.g. the lease) that the
player is legally obligated to pay such rent or mortgage and the
amount thereof. Upon notice to the player, the assignee-Club (or
his own Club in the case of a team relocation) may, as an
alternative to reimbursement, pay the expenses incurred upon
assignment (in accordance with the foregoing provisions of this
Article 14) directly to the person, firms, or corporations
involved.

(b) A player shall have deducted from any reimbursement of
expenses he is otherwise entitled to pursuant to this Section any
amount the player is reimbursed, directly or indirectly, for such
expenses from any other source whatsoever (e.g.: PHPA benefits,
spousal benefits, etc.).

14.5. Spousal Airfare. A player's spouse and children will be
entitled to one round-trip economy class airfare between the City
from which the player was assigned and the city to which he was
assigned.

14.6. Currency Conversion (a) Upon the occurrence of a
Player assignment (as described in Section 14.1(a)) in which an
Assigned Player goes from one country to another, the Assigned
Player shall have the following options in regards to currency:

(i) The Assigned Player can elect to convert
his entire contract to the currency of the Club he is assigned to
(or the currency of the country in which his Club is relocated)
at the effective Currency Exchange Ratio on the day of the
Player assignment;

(ii) The Assigned Player can elect to continue
to be paid the actual currency of his contract; or

(iii) The Assigned Player can elect from time
to time to be paid the actual currency of
his contract or to convert his contract to the currency of the
Club he is assigned to (or the currency of the country in which
his Club is relocated) on a bi-monthly basis at the Currency
Exchange Ratio in effect on the last business day of the month
immediately preceding the applicable election.

(b) When a player on a Canadian dollar contract with a
Canadian Club is subject to a Player assignment to a U.S. Club
and is then subject to a Player assignment to a Canadian Club
during the term of the same contract, his salary with the
acquiring Canadian Club shall be as stated on the face of that
Canadian dollar contract and the player shall thereafter be paid
in Canadian dollars only without any right to elect U.S.
currency. By way of example, if a player on a Canadian Club
earning $1 million per year in Canadian funds is subject to an
assignment to a U.S. Club and then subject to an assignment back
to a Canadian Club, his salary with the last Canadian Club shall
be $1 million per year in Canadian funds. The player's right to
elect to be paid in U.S. or in Canadian funds while on the U.S.
Club is unaffected by this paragraph. These principles also
apply when the Player assignment sequence is U.S. Club - Canadian
Club - U.S. Club.

14.7. In the event that a player is subject to a Player
assignment on March 1 or later in any League Year, the assignee
Club will provide such assigned Player with a single hotel room
until the end of the playoffs.
User avatar
ukcanuck
MVP
MVP
Posts: 4591
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck »

Fred wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:But corporate welfare for the owners is all good right? Tax breaks, subsidies and incentives- sweetheart deals like the one Katz is bending the city of Edmonton over for is perfectly fine??
As I understand sporting events bring in HUGE dollars for cities, they like that. They like the city to be promoted Just like u negoiate with the Union you do the same with the city and Province. Should they be exempt from this ?
You know what, I just think you use the same sauce for the goose as the gander.

It's ridiculous to point fingers at the players and say how greedy when they are pure amateurs when it comes to the unbridled greed of the owners.

It's ridiculous to say that the owners provide jobs and bring business to a city and forget the tax that the players pay into all levels of government. if the players get 57 percent of HHR a much higher portion of that will come back to all of us as a society than will come back out of the owners share.

Moreover it's highly debatable that the presence of the Canucks contribute that much to the economy anyway. It's deposable income that's being spent on game nights and that money will be spent somewhere. other businesses and other pursuits will benefit from the absense of the NHL during this lockout so how much public welfare do we really need to provide?
User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
Posts: 18097
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: There will be a strike

Post by Topper »

Standard ex-pat contract lingo on relocation. Not an issue.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
Potatoe1
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1612
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Post by Potatoe1 »

ukcanuck wrote:
You know what, I just think you use the same sauce for the goose as the gander.
I agree completely, unfortunately you do not practice what you preach....
It's ridiculous to point fingers at the players and say how greedy when they are pure amateurs when it comes to the unbridled greed of the owners.
See..

Moreover it's highly debatable that the presence of the Canucks contribute that much to the economy anyway. It's deposable income that's being spent on game nights and that money will be spent somewhere. other businesses and other pursuits will benefit from the absense of the NHL during this lockout so how much public welfare do we really need to provide?
I disagree.

If you take away the Canucks it is highly unlikely that I would spend the same money on other local events as I don't have the same type of interest. I would either put it in my pocket, or go on a trip, or something else.

I dont think I am unique on this either.

NHL hockey just has far more appeal then the other stuff going on in the city.

It's even worse in a shit hole like Edmonton.

That said I don't think NHL teams in Canada should get public money, that is just silly given how profitable they currently are.
Post Reply