There will be a strike

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the Dogsalmon
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by the Dogsalmon » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:28 pm

okcanuck wrote:
Meds wrote:Well that all fell apart in a hurry.....

Out of curiosity, could the owners not all just sit down together and hammer out an agreement between each other that limited their own spending and governed contract negotiations? If they all just agreed to set a hard cap (which appears to be what they are wanting, and then agree that the maximum length of a contract is X number of years, then the PA would have to resort to a strike if they didn't like it. Don't even need to set a maximum individual salary. If the cap is $59M and some fool owner wants to pay Ovechkin $20M a year and then surround him with plumbers to round out the roster, well so be it, the team can suck in perpetuity.

The union only has the power it does because the owners are a fractured group when it comes to working together.
Theres a real problem with the owners agreeing amongst themselves on contract sizes and lengths. Its called collusion and is against the law in the US.

but not in Canada...Chevron/PetroCan/Shell...shall i go on...

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Re: There will be a strike

Post by okcanuck » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:57 pm

the Dogsalmon wrote:
okcanuck wrote:
Meds wrote:Well that all fell apart in a hurry.....

Out of curiosity, could the owners not all just sit down together and hammer out an agreement between each other that limited their own spending and governed contract negotiations? If they all just agreed to set a hard cap (which appears to be what they are wanting, and then agree that the maximum length of a contract is X number of years, then the PA would have to resort to a strike if they didn't like it. Don't even need to set a maximum individual salary. If the cap is $59M and some fool owner wants to pay Ovechkin $20M a year and then surround him with plumbers to round out the roster, well so be it, the team can suck in perpetuity.

The union only has the power it does because the owners are a fractured group when it comes to working together.
Theres a real problem with the owners agreeing amongst themselves on contract sizes and lengths. Its called collusion and is against the law in the US.

but not in Canada...Chevron/PetroCan/Shell...shall i go on...

Absolutely right as fucked as the system is in the States at least they have competition.

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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Meds » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:08 pm

I still can't get my head around the players (PA's) mindset on one issue.

The owners are offerring them 50%. But the players want fixed dollar amounts with guaranteed increases. If the league stumbles and the players get that, then the owners are screwed and lose out, so obviously they [the owners] aren't going to go for that. If the league maintains and it's current level of revenue then the players are getting half. More than fair. If the league, for some unfathomable reason at this point, suddenly took off and revenues exploded, then the players could be getting well under 50%, so come next CBA they will be pissed and want a bigger piece of the pie.....which the owners won't want to give up at that point. But maintaining 50/50 the players stand to gain from any increase in revenue, and the players can help make that happen by putting on the best show they can and by making their real employers, the fans, happy.

If that is the sticking point for the owners, then the players are beyond unreasonable if they won't accept a 50/50 deal. All I've heard from players and Fehr is that the PA wants to work with the league and make this happen and better the game and the league and be "partners" with the owners in growing the NHL as a product. Refusing a 50/50 deal where both sides share the same risks and reap the same benefits is kind of contrary to that.

For the owners part, if the PA is hung up over the "make whole" plan, then just bite the bullet you signed your name on and honor the deal contracts. You don't have to roll them back or worry about future contracts. Just grandfather the existing contracts in and deal with it. Let them count against the cap for each team as the maximum allowable under the new system. The rest is just paid out and counted outside the cap. To me that is a no-brainer.

When it comes to contract lengths and max salaries, well I'm on the owners side still. They can decide what they want to do with their money and who they want to give it to and for how long. If you are a player in this situation then you simply have to be good enough to make it. That's the bottom line and it is a fair expectation. If you want to earn the league max you better perform to that level or you won't be earning it anymore once your contract is up. Damn it anyways if you make $30M over 5 years and then have to worry about how much you'll get for the next 5 years after that......GASP!!! It might only be $27M. Well clearly that's not enough to live on! :wow:

As for the pensions and shit.....ummm.....helloooo.....you just made more money in a 10 year career than the average person is going to make in their entire life. If you invested a tenth of it wisely you are going to draw more of a pension from interest than most people will get from their actual pension plans. I'm not OK with government officials getting the pensions they are "entitled to", definitely not going to be OK with a hockey player griping about not getting enough of a pension.

I've rambled again. Just can't get my head around the kind of greed that is passing around between the two parties involved here.

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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Tiger » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:24 pm

Meds wrote:
As for the pensions and shit.....ummm.....helloooo.....you just made more money in a 10 year career than the average person is going to make in their entire life. If you invested a tenth of it wisely you are going to draw more of a pension from interest than most people will get from their actual pension plans. I'm not OK with government officials getting the pensions they are "entitled to", definitely not going to be OK with a hockey player griping about not getting enough of a pension.

OK I am an old fart but in 40 years of working I didn't make as much as some hockey players make in 1 year let alone 10..
Getting a little tired of listening to the "union" crap . This is about greed not fairness or need.. Some of the owners go broke over the years but the players get to live the dream and are very well compensated .. Sorry, I have very little compassion for the "poor downtrodden " players..
" If you cant beat them in the alley - you can't beat them on the ice

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the Dogsalmon
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by the Dogsalmon » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:22 am

Tiger wrote:Meds wrote:
As for the pensions and shit.....ummm.....helloooo.....you just made more money in a 10 year career than the average person is going to make in their entire life. If you invested a tenth of it wisely you are going to draw more of a pension from interest than most people will get from their actual pension plans. I'm not OK with government officials getting the pensions they are "entitled to", definitely not going to be OK with a hockey player griping about not getting enough of a pension.

OK I am an old fart but in 40 years of working I didn't make as much as some hockey players make in 1 year let alone 10..
Getting a little tired of listening to the "union" crap . This is about greed not fairness or need.. Some of the owners go broke over the years but the players get to live the dream and are very well compensated .. Sorry, I have very little compassion for the "poor downtrodden " players..


damn straight Tiger...NHL workers unite...what a goddamn joke...

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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Strangelove » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:26 pm

Strangelove wrote:Colour me over-optimistic but I smell a tentative agreement within days! :mex:
Okay, now I can taste it, deal by Friday, you have my personal guarantee. :thumbs:
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Topper » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:15 pm

rats19 wrote:Toad Lickers....:)
Mojo Nixon
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:53 pm

Tiger wrote:Meds wrote:
As for the pensions and shit.....ummm.....helloooo.....you just made more money in a 10 year career than the average person is going to make in their entire life. If you invested a tenth of it wisely you are going to draw more of a pension from interest than most people will get from their actual pension plans. I'm not OK with government officials getting the pensions they are "entitled to", definitely not going to be OK with a hockey player griping about not getting enough of a pension.

OK I am an old fart but in 40 years of working I didn't make as much as some hockey players make in 1 year let alone 10..
Getting a little tired of listening to the "union" crap . This is about greed not fairness or need.. Some of the owners go broke over the years but the players get to live the dream and are very well compensated .. Sorry, I have very little compassion for the "poor downtrodden " players..
I'm sure we could name a lot of players who have hard luck stories over the years, but can anyone really name an owner who has gone broke owning a team? All the ones I can think of who claimed to lose their shirt made out pretty good in the sale and if they did go broke they probably deserved it.
Shenkarow
Pocklington
Griffiths
Aubut
McNall
Who am I missing here? The guy who lost the coyotes ? I'll grant that one but only grudgingly as they never should have moved the team there in the first place.

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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Tiger » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:01 pm

UK Canuck said:
if they did go broke they probably deserved it.
Hope you can explain that one?? or is it just a normal commie rat rant?
" If you cant beat them in the alley - you can't beat them on the ice

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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:10 pm

Tiger wrote:UK Canuck said:
if they did go broke they probably deserved it.
Hope you can explain that one?? or is it just a normal commie rat rant?
I was thinking of McNall and his jail tax fraud or whatever it was.

(And there is a world of difference between a union man and a commie rat, ask a teamster if you are in doubt :) )

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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Tiger » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:53 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Tiger wrote:UK Canuck said:
if they did go broke they probably deserved it.
Hope you can explain that one?? or is it just a normal commie rat rant?
I was thinking of McNall and his jail tax fraud or whatever it was.

(And there is a world of difference between a union man and a commie rat, ask a teamster if you are in doubt :) )
Jimmie Hoffa ?? ok a rat gangster ... but so far you been quoting pure Marx.. Unions were for fairness and need. not bucks and greed
" If you cant beat them in the alley - you can't beat them on the ice

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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:07 am

Tiger wrote: Jimmie Hoffa ?? ok a rat gangster ... but so far you been quoting pure Marx.. Unions were for fairness and need. not bucks and greed
greed cuts both ways and if we are gonna be insulted by greed, then you ought to be more insulted by the billionaires greed rather than the millionaires. As for fairness well we might have to agree to disagree cause I've already said the owners enjoy their lofty position due to a crooked system.

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Re: There will be a strike

Post by the Dogsalmon » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:13 am

UK sleeps with a copy of das kapital and the communist manifesto under his pillow...lazy fuckers of the world...unite...

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Re: There will be a strike

Post by the Dogsalmon » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:16 am

ukcanuck wrote:
Tiger wrote: Jimmie Hoffa ?? ok a rat gangster ... but so far you been quoting pure Marx.. Unions were for fairness and need. not bucks and greed
greed cuts both ways and if we are gonna be insulted by greed, then you ought to be more insulted by the billionaires greed rather than the millionaires. As for fairness well we might have to agree to disagree cause I've already said the owners enjoy their lofty position due to a crooked system.

quite possibly the owners who are rich work 10x as hard as the union guys...ever seen a government employee working at full steam?...gov't full steam is the same as full stop in the private sector...

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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:09 pm

the Dogsalmon wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:
Tiger wrote: Jimmie Hoffa ?? ok a rat gangster ... but so far you been quoting pure Marx.. Unions were for fairness and need. not bucks and greed
greed cuts both ways and if we are gonna be insulted by greed, then you ought to be more insulted by the billionaires greed rather than the millionaires. As for fairness well we might have to agree to disagree cause I've already said the owners enjoy their lofty position due to a crooked system.

quite possibly the owners who are rich work 10x as hard as the union guys...ever seen a government employee working at full steam?...gov't full steam is the same as full stop in the private sector...
First off I am a government employee and it took 6 years of university to qualify for the job and another 5 years to learn to be good at it and quite frankly I doubt if the average person would be able to tell if I'm doing a good job or bad one. There is a whole field of study based on the effects of what my industry has on society and the smartest most educated people on the planet can't decide what's the diagnosis and prognosis till decades after the fact.

Every four years another asshole gets elected to govern and each one comes from a non professional background claiming he or she knows best and every year they send an army of autocrats and bean counters (who have no clue, no education, and no expertise in what I am doing let alone how to improve on it) coming in to make wholesale changes on the way I have to do things
and most scarily to make changes in my job security and pay conditions all based on budgetary concerns (because wealthy people think its a crime to pay their fair share of taxes. )

So you will have to excuse me for being Grateful that I have a union to protect me from knee jerk assholes who have no idea

As for the idea that we are lazy fucks, well that's a lot bigger generalization than the one I'm putting forward. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but seriously, the idea that ordinary people, workers like you and me are fundamentally lazy and have no professional integrity or pride in a job well done, and would revert to Amoebae like intelligence once unionized is a fabrication by the people that would have us all in work factories.

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