There will be a strike

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Todd Bersnoozi
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Todd Bersnoozi »

Anyone know what's the current split between owners vs players right now? Is it like 60-40 for the players?

Hockey Widow wrote:We all know this will settle somewhere near a 50-50 split. The players know it and the owners would take it. The real issues are the issues everyone wants us to think are not important. Ferh said it himself, whats in it for the players to accept a lower split? He said the NHL not only wants to lower the players percentage but they want to take away rights. And that my friends is the real crux of the matter.
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Fred »

I believe it's 57 to 43 in favour of the players how ever what make it a little more confusing is of that split which revenues are included in the total split.

Interesting point IMO is the players who are all over their moral rights, apparently have no concern about heading to Europe and taking another players job away. Players going to the AHL means players will loose their job and other will move to the ECHL and some will be looking for jobs outside of hockey.
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Strangelove
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Strangelove »

Mondi wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Mondi wrote: I said it before and I'll say it again, the owners are psychopaths
Who needs psychiatrists when we have Mondi! :drink:

psst Mondi only a psychopath would lable all those chaps "psychopaths".
Oh come on old chap, nobody likes a good dose of hyperbole more than you...

The owners are acting irrationally...or without reason. They are being unreasonable.
OR you're missing something as per usual. Image

The pwners are like the Israelis, the pwnees (players) are like the palestinians.

And y'know wot, that's exactly how it should be. :thumbs:
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dbr
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by dbr »

Fred wrote:Interesting point IMO is the players who are all over their moral rights, apparently have no concern about heading to Europe and taking another players job away. Players going to the AHL means players will loose their job and other will move to the ECHL and some will be looking for jobs outside of hockey.
"They took our jobs," bah. This happens all the time whether it is in the regular course of events (Nail Yakupov and Justin Schultz will be taking players jobs this year, so what?) or exceptional circumstances like a lockout suddenly making 700 of the best hockey players on earth available.

It's unfortunate for the inferior players but nobody has an absolute right to a stable living playing hockey so I don't really see what merit there is in bashing players for signing contracts offered to them.
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ukcanuck
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck »

Mondi wrote:You must be loving Mr. Harper's mature approach to international relations lately. When we disagree with countries the best thing to do is stop talking. Right ol' bean?

Harper for Statesmen of the Year!

The owners own the league, at the end of the day they can do whatever they want. Doesn't make them rational, reasonable or, and most importantly, honourable.
Honour among thieves... tis laughable.ha.ha..ha...ha....ha.......h
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Fred »

dbr wrote:nobody has an absolute right
Correct. Who all would you include within that group.
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ukcanuck
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck »

Hockey Widow wrote:We all know this will settle somewhere near a 50-50 split. The players know it and the owners would take it. The real issues are the issues everyone wants us to think are not important. Ferh said it himself, whats in it for the players to accept a lower split? He said the NHL not only wants to lower the players percentage but they want to take away rights. And that my friends is the real crux of the matter.

How do the players get to a point of accepting 50% or less? Well, they do so by winning the small battles on age of UFA, entry level deals, contract lengths, front loading, NTC/NMC, arbitration, automatic increases for RFA's, waiver rules etc, etc , etc.

They get it by keeping the cap linked to revenues and the ability for it to increase every year, not by fixing the cap each year or by having set increases built in.

The players know there will always be a cap. They know they get too much in the split. They know they will have to give some of that up and live with the cap so they will want to maximize mobility earlier in their careers. The change in the last CBA to an earlier UFA age directly led to a major change in how players were paid. Remember the days when players got paid for what they did in the past and not their current potential? Players today get bigger pay days younger, notice the rash and extensions before the CBA ran out. If the players can get the eligibility of FA changed again in their favour they can live with giving up a piece of the pie. If they can keep the cap rising they can live with giving up another piece. If they can prevent restrictions being placed on term they can give up another piece.

They key for the players to "win" is to keep their mobility intact and provide themselves with more options earlier in their careers. They need to fix up waivers so more players have a better chance of not being buried in the minors.

The owners to "win" don't only need to get closer to 50% but they need to restrict FA more, get rid or arbitration and automatic increases for RFA, limit NTC/NMC, restrict contract lengths.

The devil is in the details and even though they want us all to believe it is about how much pie they all get to eat it is the little things that are key to fixing the CBA, and fix is subjective here.
Clearly in my opinion the reason why Bettman wont talk about anything other than the percent of HRR. Once he gets his way on that, he can hard bargain the rest because any removal of favourable conditions free agency length of contracts etc, no matter how small,will be a win win for the owners. And whether anyone wants to admit it or not. The reason we are in a lockout again is because the owners won last time around, and if they win again this time we will be right back here again at the expiration of this CBA they are negotiating now.
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck »

Strangelove wrote:
The pwners are like the Israelis, the pwnees (players) are like the Palestinians.

And y'know wot, that's exactly how it should be. :thumbs:
You an me are just like Catholics and Protestants
I'm with you on the metaphor but not as it applies to this particular conspiracy theory
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by dbr »

Fred wrote:
dbr wrote:nobody has an absolute right
Correct. Who all would you include within that group.
Where are you going with this Fred, is this supposed to arrive at "nobody has any rights so the players should just shut up and accept whatever the owners want to pay them"?
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tantalum
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by tantalum »

Perhaps the reason the league is waiting for the PA to (once again) accept full inkage and some basic share of the HRR (negotiable) is because that is the box everything goes into. Without the box it doesn't much matter what the other things are in the leagues view. With the box they are far more likely to move from their position on other issues.
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ukcanuck
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by ukcanuck »

tantalum wrote:Perhaps the reason the league is waiting for the PA to (once again) accept full inkage and some basic share of the HRR (negotiable) is because that is the box everything goes into. Without the box it doesn't much matter what the other things are in the leagues view. With the box they are far more likely to move from their position on other issues.
It might be that percent of HRR is the tangible in this, the cash. the other stuff are intangibles they may work out in favour of the team or the player depending but as they say "A bird in hand and all that.

Besides if the the players accept the owners percentage desires the other stuff that goes in the box will never be in the player's favour. The league is not going to shorten the time it takes to gain free agency, they aren't going to allow for longer contracts so that teams can mitigate the salary cap.
What would you do if you were Fehr?
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the Dogsalmon
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by the Dogsalmon »

its just one big HR problem...
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Strangelove
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Strangelove »

Mondi wrote: You must be loving Mr. Harper's mature approach to international relations lately. When we disagree with countries the best thing to do is stop talking. Right ol' bean?

Harper for Statesmen of the Year!
Why is it whenever you comment on global politics all I hear is "tick tick tick"? :crazy:
Mondi wrote: The owners own the league, at the end of the day they can do whatever they want. Doesn't make them rational, reasonable or, and most importantly, honourable.
Nor does it make them irrational, unreasonable, nor dishonourable.

The things they do usually do tend to make em richer though. :drink:
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the Dogsalmon
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by the Dogsalmon »

Strangelove wrote:
Mondi wrote: You must be loving Mr. Harper's mature approach to international relations lately. When we disagree with countries the best thing to do is stop talking. Right ol' bean?

Harper for Statesmen of the Year!
Why is it whenever you comment on global politics all I hear is "tick tick tick"? :crazy:
Mondi wrote: The owners own the league, at the end of the day they can do whatever they want. Doesn't make them rational, reasonable or, and most importantly, honourable.
Nor does it make them irrational, unreasonable, nor dishonourable.

The things they do usually do tend to make em richer though. :drink:


you forgot the BOOM part...
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Strangelove
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Re: There will be a strike

Post by Strangelove »

... thought that might be premature.

But then I suppose premature in this case would be a GOOD thing. :D
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