Nash to the Rangers.

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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby FAN » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:32 pm

Apparently the San Jose package involved Pavelski, whom I considered to better than any player Columbus got from New York, but I do consider New York's package to be better. I think the BlueJackets is a better team today and in the future as a result of this trade. The Rangers? They are a bit like the Flyers. Their future seems bright with the young players they have but I think their window to win it all is likely within the next few years while Richards, Gaborik, and Lundqvist are in their primes.

I think this is a decent deal for both teams. Columbus is rebuilding again and I actually like the moves they have been making. As for the Rangers, Nash is the type of player that can score those big goals late in games. I don't think he'll push them over the hump this year though but maybe one of these years.
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby coco_canuck » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:54 pm

Main reason this deal is being skewered by the media is the unrealistic expectations, and maybe even demands by Howson.

The Blue Jackets get:

Two 2nd liners
A blue-chip D prospect
And a 1st round pick

That's 4 solid assets, with nothing rating below top-six potential or top 4 D.

Dubinsky is a solid player who had a poor year. Given the wealth of young, cheap forwards the Rangers have, Dubinsky and his salary were easily expendable. He may have not been as valuable as he used to for the Rangers, but he will be an important player for Columbus. Dubinsky isn't a top-line player, but he's gritty, versatile 2-way forward who will give you +20 goals.

I would have liked to see Dubinsky here as a player who can play the wing and centre spot for the top 6 or 3rd line.

Anisimov has scoring upside, and is close to becoming a +20 goal scorer, especially with a bigger role and PP time.

I don't really get why Erixon is being scoffed at by some in the media, and fans alike. As others have noted, he's a blue-chip D prospect who has the potential to be a productive and reliable top 2-3 D-man.

A first round pick is always a good asset, whether its adding to your prospect pool or making a trade.

This isn't to say this was a great trade for Columbus, but there is solid value here. I think Howson wanting to get multiple "top assets" steered him towards this deal, rather than say taking less pieces, but getting one of Del Zotto or Kreider etc.

Personally, I would go with getting the most talented prospect over quantity, but it's pretty clear Howson is trying to improve the team NOW, rather than building with a bigger pieces at a time, but much slower. Everyone wants job security.
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby ESQ » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:17 pm

Does anybody think the Rangers have improved substantially with this deal?

I still don't see them as the favourite in the Atlantic, that team's fortunes are still exclusively tied to Lundqvist's performance.

Looking at the number of UFAs and RFAs coming up next summer, I think this is it for NYR's window, so go big or go home.

Nash at 40g-40a versus Nash at 30g-30a is going to determine the success of the trade.
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby Lancer » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:42 am

ESQ wrote:Does anybody think the Rangers have improved substantially with this deal?

I still don't see them as the favourite in the Atlantic, that team's fortunes are still exclusively tied to Lundqvist's performance.

Looking at the number of UFAs and RFAs coming up next summer, I think this is it for NYR's window, so go big or go home.

Nash at 40g-40a versus Nash at 30g-30a is going to determine the success of the trade.


Their first line will match up well against any of their division rivals and, frankly, any other team in the eastern conference. The big question is who makes up the 2nd line? Ryan Callahan and Chris Kreider (promising but still unproven IMO) are on the wings, but unless they have faith that Derek Stepan can become a quality 2nd line centre this season the rest of the team looks a little vacant. Lundqvist will keep them in just about every game, but I still wonder about their D.

We'll see, but at least Nash is in the Eastern Conference vice the West.
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby Boston Canucker » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:34 am

ESQ wrote:Does anybody think the Rangers have improved substantially with this deal?

I still don't see them as the favourite in the Atlantic, that team's fortunes are still exclusively tied to Lundqvist's performance.

Looking at the number of UFAs and RFAs coming up next summer, I think this is it for NYR's window, so go big or go home.

Nash at 40g-40a versus Nash at 30g-30a is going to determine the success of the trade.


Yes, I think they are improved, and they gave up very little to get there. Kreider is likely going to be a top 6 guy, looked really good last year in playoffs. Dubinsky had a terrible year. If he bounces back, then CBJ may have something, but if NYR dumped him at the right time, they did themselves a lot of good. Once Gaborik is back from injury, they could set up one line with him on the wing and one with Nash on the wing, or put them together if need be. Their pp should be that much better. NYR is a good team with a lot of young guys coming up, great goalie, and now a stud power forward. The major question for Nash will be now that he can't hide - since he's on a contender in a big mkt - will he step up. My sense is he will.
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby FAN » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:39 am

ESQ wrote:Does anybody think the Rangers have improved substantially with this deal?

I don't think they are, unless Nash shows that he's not overrated the way some people think. Fact is the Rangers are relying on some really young and inexperienced players to fill important secondary scoring roles that Dubinsky and Anisimov filled. Stepan is probably the real deal, but other guys are rookies or second year players. But on paper they added another star player which might allow their rookies and second year players to play a support role.
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:07 am

FAN wrote: Fact is the Rangers are relying on some really young and inexperienced players to fill important secondary scoring roles that Dubinsky and Anisimov filled. Stepan is probably the real deal, but other guys are rookies or second year players. But on paper they added another star player which might allow their rookies and second year players to play a support role.


Dubinsky and Anisimov were both in the 35 point range last season that is not going to be very difficult to make up.

I think the Rangers look great right now, they can go with Richards and Nash on the first line and Stepan + Gaborik on the second.

They also have Callahan, Kreider, and Hagelin to round out their top 6.

The Defense and goal tending are among the best in the league and the bottom 6 has good pieces.

If they can add a bit more with their cap space they should be right back at the top of the east next year.

That Organization looks incredibly healthy right now.
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby dbr » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:16 am

The Blue Jackets are in kind of an interesting position.

They have a lot of kind of lunchbucket guys that every team needs to win (Umberger, Tyutin, Dorsett, Dubinsky, Foligno), some players with high end talent (Wisniewski, Anisimov, Johnson, Johansen) and lots of other young players with room to improve (Moore, Nikitin, Erixon, Bobrovsky) plus a handful of pretty good prospects (Murray, Savard and Goloubef on the blueline, Jenner up front).

Out of that group you probably have two guys who could pan out to be first liners, a few more who could be or already are second liners, a few more solid third liners and probably six or seven guys who could contribute as top four defensemen on most teams.

They have three first rounders in what's supposed to be a very deep draft next year and they shitcanned their scouts after this draft so they've got a chance to turn the page on their shoddy record over the last decade.

I would say they've got long odds to make the playoffs this year but they may not be as far as some think; with smart drafting and fortuitous development from the players already on the team (particularly from Johansen, Anisimov and one of their two goaltenders) they could be a pretty good squad three or four years from now.

Unfortunately for their fans, any level of optimism has to be tempered by the fact that if there's a team that can squander opportunities it has to be the BJs.
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby old calamari » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:38 am

Anybody know how good a shot blocker Nash is? i guess we will find out if he wants to get in front of a Chara bomb.
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby Aaronp18 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:53 am

old calamari wrote:Anybody know how good a shot blocker Nash is? i guess we will find out if he wants to get in front of a Chara bomb.


You don't pay someone $7.8M per to block shots, let alone a "Chara bomb."
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby Rayxor » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:53 am

It looks like the BJ's are going in the direction of the Blues, Sabres or Coyotes model. Whether by choice or necessity, those teams get by with varying degrees of success without a marquee player to build around. It has the advantage for smaller markets to be competitive without needing to land big UFA's to fill one particular spot. Its probably the best way to go for a team that has struggled for so long despite having one of the games premier talents as the face of the franchise.

The score-by-committee teams need solid goaltending for success. That might be a bigger issue than who wins the Nash trade.
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby clem » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:57 am

Without a star to lean on, or look to for questionable leadership, the Jackets could evolve into a lunch bucket team with consistently good work ethic. A lunch bucket team that doesn't threaten to make the pay offs for a while.

Without a star to watch, their fans could lose interest. Watching the progress of their youngsters (like Johansen, Savard, Murray) will be interesting for the more astute or hard core fans, but it's unlikely to put more bums in Nationwide Arena seats.

There must some trade we could work with them to pry young talent away. :sly:
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby Strangelove » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:22 pm

dbr wrote:The Blue Jackets are in kind of an interesting position.

They have a lot of kind of lunchbucket guys that every team needs to win (Umberger, Tyutin, Dorsett, Dubinsky, Foligno), some players with high end talent (Wisniewski, Anisimov, Johnson, Johansen) and lots of other young players with room to improve (Moore, Nikitin, Erixon, Bobrovsky) plus a handful of pretty good prospects (Murray, Savard and Goloubef on the blueline, Jenner up front).

Out of that group you probably have two guys who could pan out to be first liners, a few more who could be or already are second liners, a few more solid third liners and probably six or seven guys who could contribute as top four defensemen on most teams.

They have three first rounders in what's supposed to be a very deep draft next year and they shitcanned their scouts after this draft so they've got a chance to turn the page on their shoddy record over the last decade.

I would say they've got long odds to make the playoffs this year but they may not be as far as some think; with smart drafting and fortuitous development from the players already on the team (particularly from Johansen, Anisimov and one of their two goaltenders) they could be a pretty good squad three or four years from now.

Unfortunately for their fans, any level of optimism has to be tempered by the fact that if there's a team that can squander opportunities it has to be the BJs.


With all the turmoil and transition last year it's no wonder they finished last. However the team seemed to steadily improve once Richards took over as coach. I keep hearing that Nash made for a pretty crappy captain. I really think Richards and new captain Jack Johnson (you heard it here first!) will slowly turn the tide in Columbus.

However rolling with the goalies they presently have is a HUGE gamble. Well Bobrovsky is a huge gamble, the rest of them are diarrhea! Personally I'd trade one of their 1st rounders+ for Bernier and let him and Bob battle for starts. Bringing in Bobrovsky this summer will help (hehe couldn't be any worse) but they need more in that department imesho.
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby Jovocop » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:41 pm

clem wrote:Without a star to lean on, or look to for questionable leadership, the Jackets could evolve into a lunch bucket team with consistently good work ethic. A lunch bucket team that doesn't threaten to make the pay offs for a while.

Without a star to watch, their fans could lose interest
. Watching the progress of their youngsters (like Johansen, Savard, Murray) will be interesting for the more astute or hard core fans, but it's unlikely to put more bums in Nationwide Arena seats.

There must some trade we could work with them to pry young talent away. :sly:


If the BJs start winning games, I doubt their fans care about having a star or not.
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Re: Nash to the Rangers.

Postby Hockey Widow » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:42 pm

I think the return Columbus got was just right for Nash. I'd love that type of return for Luongo!
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