Shane Doan

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Re: Shane Doan

Postby FAN » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:59 am

vic wrote:The team needs a legit top 6 forward, someone who can play on that 2nd line and move up to the 1st when needed. If the team has a chance to land Doan without giving up anything except cap space which they'll get back the following year (and get some back with Kesler's LTIR this year), why would anyone even think twice about it.

You think twice because of Doan's age and the length and money Doan is reportedly asking. Fact is the Canucks have spent to the cap the past few years and any player who significantly underperforms his contract is going to be hard for the Canucks to live with. Personally, I think Doan can play in the NHL until he's 40, but not as a top 6 player. How many more offensively-productive years will Doan have? It's hard to tell.
FAN
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby wienerdog » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:25 am

FAN wrote:
vic wrote:The team needs a legit top 6 forward, someone who can play on that 2nd line and move up to the 1st when needed. If the team has a chance to land Doan without giving up anything except cap space which they'll get back the following year (and get some back with Kesler's LTIR this year), why would anyone even think twice about it.

You think twice because of Doan's age and the length and money Doan is reportedly asking. Fact is the Canucks have spent to the cap the past few years and any player who significantly underperforms his contract is going to be hard for the Canucks to live with. Personally, I think Doan can play in the NHL until he's 40, but not as a top 6 player. How many more offensively-productive years will Doan have? It's hard to tell.


Chicken dinner.
wienerdog
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:47 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby The_Pauser » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:19 pm

wienerdog wrote:Why? Beacuse I don't feel comfortable paying a 40 year old inevitably broken-down Doan $6.5M for a paltry point production in 4 years, that's why.

Just remember Naslund at the end of his tenure here and how badly everyone wanted him off the roster. Doan will = late Nuck career Naslund v2.0.

And what's the alternative? It's to NOT pay him that much and let him sign eleswhere. You yourself said he may or may not be the piece we're looking for, but then you insinuate that this team won't succeed in the playoffs without him.

Well, this team was going nowhere after the season before last. They left nothing in the tank after game 7 and had zero recovery time. Kesler was fucked and everyone was gassed. Still, they managed a 2nd President's trophy, despite losing Daniel to a concussion at season's end - which fucked us in the playoffs, btw.

Sorry, I dont buy the "collapse" argument. I certainly don't buy that it means we need Doan at all costs.

Why the hell would we start opening the vaults for a guy that might or might not address what this team needs?

People just keep expecting that hail-mary manoeuvers = Cup, but that's not the case.

Doan at $5M, ok, but barely - precisely because it's not clear whether he will adequately get us over the hump.

Doan at $6.5M... fuck no.


Shane Doan would be one of the most valuable forward on our roster. If he's not scoring, he's at least playing strong defensive hockey and he is playing physical. Last year he logged over 200 hits...we don't have a single player in our top 6 even close to that figure.

I said I can't guarantee that Doan will solve our problems, but I think that he will help. I don't know if the Sedins are going to go ice cold and get completely shut down in 3 of 4 playoff series like the 2011 playoffs. I don't know that Kesler doesn't get completely ripped a part and injured again. I can't guarantee that Doan comes in and lights it up, no more than I could guarantee Alex Ovechkin could come in here and get his career back on track. At best, it's an attempt to solve a huge problem this team has.

Shane Doan is in excellent physical shape. While he may not be a 20-25 goal, 50-60 point forward at age 40, I think he has likely 3 more years left at this level. That final year coulud be tough, but at least I can see him being a valuable asset on our 3rd line at that point. Who knows what the cap will be like by that point. Another option is to front-load his contract so that the salary portion is low for the 4th year. That would leave him little incentive to continue playing (especially if we have won a Cup by then, and if we haven't then this team has a lot more to worry about than just Shane Doan), and we trade his contract to a cap floor team a month before he announces his retirement. They get to keep his cap hit on their books, we don't get stuck with his cap hit, and Doan enjoys his retirement.

This team won a President's trophy because our goaltenders played out of this world. If not for them, we probably end up in 3rd in the West. Once the playoffs hit and we faced stronger competition our team was dead in the water. I saw no life in this team in the playoffs, and it was the exact same attitude as we saw throughout the regular season.

We can either sign Shane Doan and address our needs, or we can hope that someone like Raymond or Higgins or Kassian are good enough to stick in our top 6 for the regular season, and hold our breaths trying to ignore the reality that in the playoffs we will be leaving our goalie out to dry by not being able to give him more than 1-2 goals of offensive support. But then again, all the goalie haters can turn their attention to Schneider being the next choker in this city.
The_Pauser
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:21 pm
Location: Surrey, BC

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Canuck-One » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:07 pm

Was it nice to win the Presidents Trophy? Yeah it was nice, but who cares. Without looking it up who won it 3 years ago? The whole point of the exercise is to win the Cup and to entertain your fans along the way. The Canucks are soft and they continually get out fought for the puck when it counts. Doan can be one solution in a process to fix that. Doan's worth isn't all in the goals and assists but in the over all flow of the game. When he is on the ice the D know he's coming and tend to rush the play. If Kassian can learn from him, that is another step in the process. The money shouldn't even enter anyones mind, that's up to Aquaman and Gillis. They didn't get to where they are by throwing money away. Some say Sundin was a useless pick up by Gillis, yet look at the improvement in Keslers game since he played with him. Messier was a piece of work but Naslund put his rise to prominence on what he learned from him. Sometimes an old vet has much more than simply points to add to the team he's going to and I think Doan brings a lot of the things we need at this time, so sign him. I will leave the costs to those who have to spend it.
User avatar
Canuck-One
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 534
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:49 am
Location: Moving to Blackfalds

Re: Shane Doan

Postby RoyalDude » Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:07 pm

Canuck-One wrote:Was it nice to win the Presidents Trophy? Yeah it was nice, but who cares. Without looking it up who won it 3 years ago? The whole point of the exercise is to win the Cup and to entertain your fans along the way. The Canucks are soft and they continually get out fought for the puck when it counts.


Brilliant stuff, Canuck-One. Completely on the same level as you. We must be taking the same drugs. But seriously, the Presidents Trophy is one of the most gay trophy's of all time, like why fucking bother. It means fuck all. Oh yeah, completely agree about us being soft, but it's a softness in the area of competing when it really counts...too many guys on this team who phone it in when the other team is pumped up on emotion with a whole whack of push back, we've seen it over the last 3 playoffs. When we get pushed we cower and the players really don't stick up for each other. We irritate teams, we piss them off, but that ain't toughness, that is just arrogance and not shutting up and just playing hockey that makes us the most hated team in the league, non-Canuck fans love to see this team fail. We need a new approach. Anyhow, the team really needs to drop the whole Presidents trophy thing, it's gay, AV loves it, cause it pads his stats and justifies his place in coaching fraternity, but seriously, I hope we never win another Presidents Trophy.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4302
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Blaster86 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:09 pm

Canuck-One wrote:Was it nice to win the Presidents Trophy? Yeah it was nice, but who cares. Without looking it up who won it 3 years ago?



Worshinton!
Blaster86
CC Veteran
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:14 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Strangelove » Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:10 pm

Canuck-One wrote:The Canucks are soft and they continually get out fought for the puck when it counts.


I've sang that song on Canuck boards a few summers in a row, not many seem to listen.

Canuck-One wrote:Doan can be one solution in a process to fix that.


:thumbs:
____
"I like to think that this team can get its mojo back" - Ryan Miller
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Legend
 
Posts: 7033
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Fred » Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:44 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Canuck-One wrote:The Canucks are soft and they continually get out fought for the puck when it counts.


I've sang that song on Canuck boards a few summers in a row, not many seem to listen.

Canuck-One wrote:Doan can be one solution in a process to fix that.


:thumbs:



There's no doubt vcr is not exactly a hard nosed team. That has to be done during the season when wins and losses are not so important. The trouble is IMO every time one of the tough players takes a penalty AV sits him....he just doesn't like penalties. I guess that's why the tougher member of the cast will not return and I have to say I don't see Volpatti as a solution ( apart from one lucky punch with Winchester)
cheers
Fred
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Jovocop » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:03 am

Fred wrote:There's no doubt vcr is not exactly a hard nosed team. That has to be done during the season when wins and losses are not so important. The trouble is IMO every time one of the tough players takes a penalty AV sits him....he just doesn't like penalties. I guess that's why the tougher member of the cast will not return and I have to say I don't see Volpatti as a solution ( apart from one lucky punch with Winchester)


Do you remember what Ben Eager did in the WCF against the Canucks? I am not a fan of AV but I do not want any stupid goon on my team neither.
User avatar
Jovocop
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1688
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Canuck-One » Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:41 pm

Jovocop wrote:
Fred wrote:There's no doubt vcr is not exactly a hard nosed team. That has to be done during the season when wins and losses are not so important. The trouble is IMO every time one of the tough players takes a penalty AV sits him....he just doesn't like penalties. I guess that's why the tougher member of the cast will not return and I have to say I don't see Volpatti as a solution ( apart from one lucky punch with Winchester)


Do you remember what Ben Eager did in the WCF against the Canucks? I am not a fan of AV but I do not want any stupid goon on my team neither.



I also remember what Shawn Thornton did as well and I'd take him in a heart beat.
User avatar
Canuck-One
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 534
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:49 am
Location: Moving to Blackfalds

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Strangelove » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:54 pm

Fred wrote:The trouble is IMO every time one of the tough players takes a penalty AV sits him....he just doesn't like penalties.


AGREED.
____
"I like to think that this team can get its mojo back" - Ryan Miller
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Legend
 
Posts: 7033
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby wienerdog » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:17 pm

The_Pauser wrote:
wienerdog wrote:Why? Beacuse I don't feel comfortable paying a 40 year old inevitably broken-down Doan $6.5M for a paltry point production in 4 years, that's why.

Just remember Naslund at the end of his tenure here and how badly everyone wanted him off the roster. Doan will = late Nuck career Naslund v2.0.

And what's the alternative? It's to NOT pay him that much and let him sign eleswhere. You yourself said he may or may not be the piece we're looking for, but then you insinuate that this team won't succeed in the playoffs without him.

Well, this team was going nowhere after the season before last. They left nothing in the tank after game 7 and had zero recovery time. Kesler was fucked and everyone was gassed. Still, they managed a 2nd President's trophy, despite losing Daniel to a concussion at season's end - which fucked us in the playoffs, btw.

Sorry, I dont buy the "collapse" argument. I certainly don't buy that it means we need Doan at all costs.

Why the hell would we start opening the vaults for a guy that might or might not address what this team needs?

People just keep expecting that hail-mary manoeuvers = Cup, but that's not the case.

Doan at $5M, ok, but barely - precisely because it's not clear whether he will adequately get us over the hump.

Doan at $6.5M... fuck no.


Shane Doan would be one of the most valuable forward on our roster. If he's not scoring, he's at least playing strong defensive hockey and he is playing physical. Last year he logged over 200 hits...we don't have a single player in our top 6 even close to that figure.

I said I can't guarantee that Doan will solve our problems, but I think that he will help. I don't know if the Sedins are going to go ice cold and get completely shut down in 3 of 4 playoff series like the 2011 playoffs. I don't know that Kesler doesn't get completely ripped a part and injured again. I can't guarantee that Doan comes in and lights it up, no more than I could guarantee Alex Ovechkin could come in here and get his career back on track. At best, it's an attempt to solve a huge problem this team has.

Shane Doan is in excellent physical shape. While he may not be a 20-25 goal, 50-60 point forward at age 40, I think he has likely 3 more years left at this level. That final year coulud be tough, but at least I can see him being a valuable asset on our 3rd line at that point. Who knows what the cap will be like by that point. Another option is to front-load his contract so that the salary portion is low for the 4th year. That would leave him little incentive to continue playing (especially if we have won a Cup by then, and if we haven't then this team has a lot more to worry about than just Shane Doan), and we trade his contract to a cap floor team a month before he announces his retirement. They get to keep his cap hit on their books, we don't get stuck with his cap hit, and Doan enjoys his retirement.

This team won a President's trophy because our goaltenders played out of this world. If not for them, we probably end up in 3rd in the West. Once the playoffs hit and we faced stronger competition our team was dead in the water. I saw no life in this team in the playoffs, and it was the exact same attitude as we saw throughout the regular season.

We can either sign Shane Doan and address our needs, or we can hope that someone like Raymond or Higgins or Kassian are good enough to stick in our top 6 for the regular season, and hold our breaths trying to ignore the reality that in the playoffs we will be leaving our goalie out to dry by not being able to give him more than 1-2 goals of offensive support. But then again, all the goalie haters can turn their attention to Schneider being the next choker in this city.


First off, it's been generally accepted that Doan will get an NTC or full NMC from whichever team signs him. He's already very reticent to leave PHO to finish his career elsewhere, so it's highly unlikely he'll open himself up to finishing it two elsewheres.

In fact, it's pretty much common sense given the information we have on Doan, so stop trying to make a four year deal look more palatable by shunting the guy off to some other team in the 4th year of the contract. If you sign the guy for Sedin money+ for four years, he is going to count against your Cap for that grotesque amount of dosh until the last day of the deal. There won't be any offloading.

It's also widely speculated that the Cap is actually going down, not up, btw.

So, that brings us to your speculations of where Mr. Doan is headed in his career. You're acknowledging that he's a 60pt guy at best right now - well, given the physical nautre of his play, he's likely to slide significantly as he heads towards 40. Maybe not, but the safe money is certainly on the former.

And what if he has an injury - one like Kesler? What then? You do realize that he's a 35+ signing and you can't take the guy off your books.

Ok - ask yourself: do you really want to pay $6.5M+ for a guy that has slowed significantly and can't break 40 or 45 points, Pauser? A guy who looks good on your 3rd line, but can't play his way up the lineup? Because that's what you're rolling the dice on here.

We could really really really use Doan, we're agreed on that - but we need a 4yr deal at $6.5M+ like a hole in the head.

One last thing: it should be pointed out that you have no problem with this type of contract for Doan, yet you argue up and down out of the other side of your mouth that Edler is a $4.2M dman.

:eh:

Something's not adding up, amigo.
wienerdog
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:47 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Potatoe1 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:23 pm

wienerdog wrote:
One last thing: it should be pointed out that you have no problem with this type of contract for Doan, yet you argue up and down out of the other side of your mouth that Edler is a $4.2M dman.

:eh:

Something's not adding up, amigo.


Kind of funny how that works...

If I had to choose between Edler and Doan for next year only I take Edler 100% yet people are grumbling about paying him over 5.5 despite the fact he will only get better.

Doan will most likely decline significantly over the next year or 2 and some want to offer him up a fairly major contract.....

Canuck fan seem to want to pay a lot more for players from other teams then they want to spend on better players that are already here.

Alex burrows seems to get 5 to 10 more goals a year then Doan, has loads of grit, is better defensively, and is way younger, anyone want to give him 6.5 over 4 years ?
Potatoe1
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1613
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby SKYO » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:41 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:Kind of funny how that works...

If I had to choose between Edler and Doan for next year only I take Edler 100% yet people are grumbling about paying him over 5.5 despite the fact he will only get better.

Doan will most likely decline significantly over the next year or 2 and some want to offer him up a fairly major contract.....

Canuck fan seem to want to pay a lot more for players from other teams then they want to spend on better players that are already here.

Alex burrows seems to get 5 to 10 more goals a year then Doan, has loads of grit, is better defensively, and is way younger, anyone want to give him 6.5 over 4 years ?


Luckily MG/Gilman are at the helm here hey tater?
User avatar
SKYO
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3220
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby FAN » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:59 pm

Not sure if this has been brought up, but will AV trust that Doan is not anti-french and give Doan the star treatment?

Potatoe1 wrote:Canuck fan seem to want to pay a lot more for players from other teams then they want to spend on better players that are already here.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house/wife? :shock:
FAN
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:55 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests