Shane Doan

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Re: Shane Doan

Postby FAN » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:27 pm

Canuck-One wrote:Doan is the only power forward on the market. Why oh why do so many of you worry about Aquaman's money? He knows what he is doing.

One would assume Aquaman knows what he's doing. He reportedly risked a big portion of his fortune having fun when he's away from his wife. :lol:
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:43 am

True, but in the salary cap era, I wants the canucks to put the best team out there. I want players that I would like, would cheer for and guys who I think we can win with. When we end up with too many guys like Booth and Baltard, high priced players who don't do much (basically free loaders), I really start to hate those guys.


Canuck-One wrote:Doan is the only power forward on the market. Why oh why do so many of you worry about Aquaman's money? He knows what he is doing. Don't worry about the salary structure of the team that's Gillis' job. Go get him and then hope Burrows can ignite line 2.
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby CaptainTrev » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:24 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:True, but in the salary cap era, I wants the canucks to put the best team out there. I want players that I would like, would cheer for and guys who I think we can win with. When we end up with too many guys like Booth and Baltard, high priced players who don't do much (basically free loaders), I really start to hate those guys.


So you prefer overpaid professional athletes to ludicrously overpaid professional athletes.

All a matter of perspective, I suppose.

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Re: Shane Doan

Postby ESQ » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:53 am

vic wrote:
Fred wrote:I understand we are all, blessed/cursed with the WASP mentality but is the money coming from your pockets ? and do we have the Cap space to cover the cost of Doan ? and I think the answer is respectively NO & YES


+1


There is no cap space for Doan at that price. The Canucks would have to trade Luongo and take back no salary, and have Eddie Lack as the backup.

That is the problem with Doan at that price - there is no cap space so you weaken the team in other areas to get him under the cap. Then there's the problem with that term, when no one knows what will happen to the Cap under the new CBA.

If he wants to play here, he has to play for a reasonable price. I suspect he doesn't want to play here, hence the unreal demands that no contending team will pay (other than maybe the Rangers).
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby Reefer2 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:39 pm

Fred wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:
Fred wrote:I have to believe Doan is exactly what the Canucks need and we can waffle on about the future, salaries ,how old he is, injuries or what ever , the Hell with it lets throw caution to the wind and just go for it. Apparently his daughter has had recent serious injuries which has delayed the process


At a good salary not the stupidity being offered/suggested here and they are reportedly asking for.



I understand we are all, blessed/cursed with the WASP mentality but is the money coming from your pockets ? and do we have the Cap space to cover the cost of Doan ? and I think the answer is respectively NO & YES


Fred you don't see past your nose. Doan wants multi years, you don't look at this deal for one year only.
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby Tciso » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:03 pm

ESQ wrote:There is no cap space for Doan at that price. The Canucks would have to trade Luongo and take back no salary, and have Eddie Lack as the backup.

That is the problem with Doan at that price - there is no cap space so you weaken the team in other areas to get him under the cap. Then there's the problem with that term, when no one knows what will happen to the Cap under the new CBA.

If he wants to play here, he has to play for a reasonable price. I suspect he doesn't want to play here, hence the unreal demands that no contending team will pay (other than maybe the Rangers).


Not only that, Doan would kill too much cap space next year, when we have to re-sign a few players, like Tanev and Edler, Hansen, etc. I'd take Doan for our remaining cap space this year, but we need the space next year to keep some of those core players.
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby Strangelove » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:28 pm

Tciso wrote:Not only that, Doan would kill too much cap space next year, when we have to re-sign a few players, like Tanev and Edler, Hansen, etc. I'd take Doan for our remaining cap space this year, but we need the space next year to keep some of those core players.


Again, I don't think he's coming to your Vancouver Canucks and if he did it's prolly gotta be for $5.5 to $6mil per.

Next year the cap would increase, salaries of Manny/Raymond/Ballard likely come off the books = lotsa room.

Not that it matters but Hansen's contract isn't up until 2014....
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby The_Pauser » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:54 pm

Tciso wrote:Not only that, Doan would kill too much cap space next year, when we have to re-sign a few players, like Tanev and Edler, Hansen, etc. I'd take Doan for our remaining cap space this year, but we need the space next year to keep some of those core players.


Keep playing for "next year" and you'll never win a championship. Deal with next year when it comes...this year we have a huge hole on offense, particularly in our top 6. Our offense for two playoffs in a row has proven it isn't good enough to get the job done. I'm not guaranteeing that Doan will solve that, but he's definitely an attempt to address the problem and I personally think he will help a lot.
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby wienerdog » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:38 pm

The_Pauser wrote:
Tciso wrote:Not only that, Doan would kill too much cap space next year, when we have to re-sign a few players, like Tanev and Edler, Hansen, etc. I'd take Doan for our remaining cap space this year, but we need the space next year to keep some of those core players.


Keep playing for "next year" and you'll never win a championship. Deal with next year when it comes...this year we have a huge hole on offense, particularly in our top 6. Our offense for two playoffs in a row has proven it isn't good enough to get the job done. I'm not guaranteeing that Doan will solve that, but he's definitely an attempt to address the problem and I personally think he will help a lot.


Fair enough. But at what price / term do you walk away from trying to sign him?

$6M? $6.5M? $7M?

Two, three, four year deal?

Let's hear it on record before a deal goes down...
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby The_Pauser » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:44 pm

wienerdog wrote:
The_Pauser wrote:
Tciso wrote:Not only that, Doan would kill too much cap space next year, when we have to re-sign a few players, like Tanev and Edler, Hansen, etc. I'd take Doan for our remaining cap space this year, but we need the space next year to keep some of those core players.


Keep playing for "next year" and you'll never win a championship. Deal with next year when it comes...this year we have a huge hole on offense, particularly in our top 6. Our offense for two playoffs in a row has proven it isn't good enough to get the job done. I'm not guaranteeing that Doan will solve that, but he's definitely an attempt to address the problem and I personally think he will help a lot.


Fair enough. But at what price / term do you walk away from trying to sign him?

$6M? $6.5M? $7M?

Two, three, four year deal?

Let's hear it on record before a deal goes down...


Given our cap structure I would probably go as high as $26M/4 years if need be. I don't think we would need to go that high to lock him up. I would much prefer to get something done at $20M/4 years especially since we are conceeding term to him, but if backed into a corner and a bidding war, $26/4 is my limit.
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby wienerdog » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:53 pm

The_Pauser wrote:
wienerdog wrote:
The_Pauser wrote:Keep playing for "next year" and you'll never win a championship. Deal with next year when it comes...this year we have a huge hole on offense, particularly in our top 6. Our offense for two playoffs in a row has proven it isn't good enough to get the job done. I'm not guaranteeing that Doan will solve that, but he's definitely an attempt to address the problem and I personally think he will help a lot.


Fair enough. But at what price / term do you walk away from trying to sign him?

$6M? $6.5M? $7M?

Two, three, four year deal?

Let's hear it on record before a deal goes down...


Given our cap structure I would probably go as high as $26M/4 years if need be. I don't think we would need to go that high to lock him up. I would much prefer to get something done at $20M/4 years especially since we are conceeding term to him, but if backed into a corner and a bidding war, $26/4 is my limit.


$6.5M / 4 years is definitely much too high for my liking, and I do expect Gillis would walk from a contract like that.

I have a hard time seeing MG paying him more than Kesler - I think it'll be $5M / x (4 or less) if he signs here.

I'm gonna say $5M / 3 or 4 is what goes down if he signs in Vancouver.
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby The_Pauser » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:57 pm

wienerdog wrote:
$6.5M / 4 years is definitely much too high for my liking, and I do expect Gillis would walk from a contract like that.

I have a hard time seeing MG paying him more than Kesler - I think it'll be $5M / x (4 or less) if he signs here.

I'm gonna say $5M / 3 or 4 is what goes down if he signs in Vancouver.


Why? What is the alternative? Another good/great regular season followed by a collapse due to a piss poor offensive performance in the playoffs?
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby wienerdog » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:57 pm

The_Pauser wrote:
wienerdog wrote:
$6.5M / 4 years is definitely much too high for my liking, and I do expect Gillis would walk from a contract like that.

I have a hard time seeing MG paying him more than Kesler - I think it'll be $5M / x (4 or less) if he signs here.

I'm gonna say $5M / 3 or 4 is what goes down if he signs in Vancouver.


Why? What is the alternative? Another good/great regular season followed by a collapse due to a piss poor offensive performance in the playoffs?


Why? Beacuse I don't feel comfortable paying a 40 year old inevitably broken-down Doan $6.5M for a paltry point production in 4 years, that's why.

Just remember Naslund at the end of his tenure here and how badly everyone wanted him off the roster. Doan will = late Nuck career Naslund v2.0.

And what's the alternative? It's to NOT pay him that much and let him sign eleswhere. You yourself said he may or may not be the piece we're looking for, but then you insinuate that this team won't succeed in the playoffs without him.

Well, this team was going nowhere after the season before last. They left nothing in the tank after game 7 and had zero recovery time. Kesler was fucked and everyone was gassed. Still, they managed a 2nd President's trophy, despite losing Daniel to a concussion at season's end - which fucked us in the playoffs, btw.

Sorry, I dont buy the "collapse" argument. I certainly don't buy that it means we need Doan at all costs.

Why the hell would we start opening the vaults for a guy that might or might not address what this team needs?

People just keep expecting that hail-mary manoeuvers = Cup, but that's not the case.

Doan at $5M, ok, but barely - precisely because it's not clear whether he will adequately get us over the hump.

Doan at $6.5M... fuck no.
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby ODB » Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:42 am

wienerdog wrote:Just remember Naslund at the end of his tenure here and how badly everyone wanted him off the roster. Doan will = late Nuck career Naslund v2.0.
.


Only morons and assholes wanted Naslund off the roster. He should have retired a Canuck... top three or four best players to ever wear a Canuck Jersey. Fuckin class act that was amongst the most dangerous in the world for a few years! He brought your Canucks back from the depths of hell!

BTW, I agree Doan at 6.5 x 4 is retarded!
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Re: Shane Doan

Postby vic » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:32 am

wienerdog wrote:Why? Beacuse I don't feel comfortable paying a 40 year old inevitably broken-down Doan $6.5M for a paltry point production in 4 years, that's why.


You have cheque signing authority for Francesco Aquilini?

Edit:

wienerdog wrote:Why the hell would we start opening the vaults for a guy that might or might not address what this team needs?


Because spending that same amount of cash of 3-4 scrubs to help the 3rd/4th line or get some depth d-men makes more sense, right?

The team needs a legit top 6 forward, someone who can play on that 2nd line and move up to the 1st when needed. If the team has a chance to land Doan without giving up anything except cap space which they'll get back the following year (and get some back with Kesler's LTIR this year), why would anyone even think twice about it.

It's not like they are out hunting for 2-3 $2 million dollar 3rd/4th liners, they are looking to add some scoring, leadership and grit to the mix - Doan has all of it.
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