Shane Doan

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Re: Shane Doan

Postby rats19 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:15 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
Mondi wrote:Averaged over an eighty-two game season Doan's playoff career totals put him at 22G 19A 41P while Raymond's totals would put him at 11G 14A 25P.


I don't usually agree with much of what Mondi says but there is some truth to his opinion on Doan.

The media seems to have hyped this player into something greater then he actually is.

Don't get me wrong I think he is a very good player, but you have to call spade a spade and Shane Doan gets first line ice time and first unit power play time and still only averages 20 goals and 50 points a season.

He's also at an age where vast, vast, vast majority of forwards decline significantly. That is especially true for guys who play a physical brand of hockey (Doan Does), and don't skate very well (Doan doesn't).

I would love to have Doan next season and would gladly give him what ever cap space we have left. I would be ok giving Doan a 2 year deal as well (not at 7.5). A 3 year deal would make me very nervous and a 4 year deal would make me angry.

Unless we won a cup first or 2nd year....or both...lol
You are who you hang with.....
User avatar
rats19
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
 
Posts: 4692
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:21 am
Location: over there.....

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Potatoe1 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:33 pm

wafflecombine wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:The new rules might actually make it more difficult to retain our free agents.



Christ I hope not!


If the owners proposal is accepted it will be more difficult to sign Burrows.

Edler wouldn't be an URFA for a few years.
Potatoe1
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1613
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Jovocop » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:28 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
Mondi wrote:Averaged over an eighty-two game season Doan's playoff career totals put him at 22G 19A 41P while Raymond's totals would put him at 11G 14A 25P.


I don't usually agree with much of what Mondi says but there is some truth to his opinion on Doan.

The media seems to have hyped this player into something greater then he actually is.

Don't get me wrong I think he is a very good player, but you have to call spade a spade and Shane Doan gets first line ice time and first unit power play time and still only averages 20 goals and 50 points a season.

He's also at an age where vast, vast, vast majority of forwards decline significantly. That is especially true for guys who play a physical brand of hockey (Doan Does), and don't skate very well (Doan doesn't).

I would love to have Doan next season and would gladly give him what ever cap space we have left. I would be ok giving Doan a 2 year deal as well (not at 7.5). A 3 year deal would make me very nervous and a 4 year deal would make me angry.


None of the Coyotes' centremen scored more than 40 points in 2011/12. Is it safe to assume that Doan will get more points playing along the Sedins?
User avatar
Jovocop
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1736
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Strangelove » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:34 pm

Mondi wrote:
Strangelove wrote:Did someone really just compare Shane Doan to Mayson Raymond??!! :lol:


2 to 3 more goals per season at 2.5 to 3 times the price.


Now OBVIOUSLY there’s more to it than goals but ummmmm...

Last 2 seasons counting playoffs:

Shane Doan: 50 GOALS in 171 games (74 assists).

Mason Raymond: 27 GOALS in 154 games (41 assists).

Now consider the fact your Vancouver Canucks have been having problems scoring goals

... when the going gets tough (i.e. the PLAYOFFS)

Wot part of the following statement by dbr did you not understand:

“Averaged over an eighty-two game season Doan's playoff career totals put him at 22G 19A 41P while Raymond's totals would put him at 11G 14A 25P.”

And note Doan’s goals-per-playoff-gm have been increasing, Raymond’s decreasing, last 2 years:

Shane Doan: 8 GOALS in 20 playoff games.

Mason Raymond: 2 GOALS in 29 playoff games.

Y’know, back in the day if someone dared compare a player like Doan to a player like Raymond said poster was banned on the spot. I’m not kidding: BANNED! But now.... NOW we’ve got guys who spew things like “2 to 3 more goals per season at 2.5 to 3 times the price”... and the offending post is not even deleted! Okay, okay I get that in this day & age we can no longer have minimum IQ requirements and ban folks who do not measure up, but goodness gracious if I wanted to read GARBAGE I’d be at Calpuke right now! :crazy:

Please forgive me if I sound a tad harsh Mondi for my motives are pure. Nothing personal good buddy, I’m just doing what I can to help keep Corner standards high. See this is in essence what you are saying: “Most NHL Gms consider Doan to be worth 2 to 3 times what Raymond is worth but that is only because they are idiots who never stopped to (mis)count the GOALS!”

Mondi wrote:No one is saying Raymond is better, or even nearly as good.


Nice backtracking attempt but Raymond should never be mentioned in the same breath as Doan.

Mondi wrote:But, the reality of the situation is that people are supporting the acquisition of a guy over 35, who has scored a mere 10 more goals than Raymond over the past 3 seasons while playing more games. And they are cool with spending 5 or 6 million on him.


lol and yup he goes RIGHT BACK to comparing the two! :lol:

.
Last edited by Strangelove on Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
____
The Ring Leader
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Legend
 
Posts: 7371
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Strangelove » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:37 pm

Jovocop wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:Don't get me wrong I think he is a very good player, but you have to call spade a spade and Shane Doan gets first line ice time and first unit power play time and still only averages 20 goals and 50 points a season.


None of the Coyotes' centremen scored more than 40 points in 2011/12. Is it safe to assume that Doan will get more points playing along the Sedins?


Yup and then there's the matter of EARNING one's icetime.

Sure Raymond’s numbers would look somewhat better if he EARNS that icetime

(well maybe not if he played for the Yotes but...).

He doesn’t!

Can't believe I'm having this conversation.....


btw Mondi just kidding about the "banning". :D


.
____
The Ring Leader
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Legend
 
Posts: 7371
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby FAN » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:55 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:The media seems to have hyped this player into something greater then he actually is.

Don't get me wrong I think he is a very good player, but you have to call spade a spade and Shane Doan gets first line ice time and first unit power play time and still only averages 20 goals and 50 points a season.

How has the media been hyping Doan into something greater than he actually is? Like you said, Doan is a "very good player."

Doan is the best free agent forward remaining and if the reports are correct, more than half of the league's GMs are interested in Doan. Doan is almost a universally-liked forward that almost every team in the league wants to add. What you're getting is more than just offensive production and it seems there are many GMs who believe that including our very own GM Mike Gillis. Concerns over Doan's age and contract length demands are there and have been reported on by the media. Not sure how the media has been overhyping Doan.

Shane Doan also happens to be playing under Dave Tippett the past few years, who is a renowned defensive coach. I think playing in a strict defensive system without capable linemates may have affected Doan's offensive production.

Potatoe1 wrote:He's also at an age where vast, vast, vast majority of forwards decline significantly. That is especially true for guys who play a physical brand of hockey (Doan Does), and don't skate very well (Doan doesn't).

I agree that the risk of decline is high, but Doan beat the Mantracker just a year ago. :shock: I think Doan skates pretty well with a decent startup and a very strong skater.
FAN
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby RoyalDude » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:53 pm

Why is Doc trying to rid the Canucks of Heathens in the line-up?

Heathens - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt5oRQhpc5E

"repent! repent!"
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4483
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Mondi » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:53 pm

If the Canucks sign Doan to 4 years and 30 million Strangelove, you can petition the mod to ban me. I won't object.

The point of the comparison, was to highlight the absurdity of what Shane Doan has been made out to be over the past 2 months.

This is a guy who has never put his team past the 1st round until his 16th season.

This is a guy who has never scored more than 31 goals in his entire career.

This is guy who is being mistaken for the second coming of Brendan Shanahan.

I suppose SL, as always, you're either king of hyperbole, or you just can't quite grasp it.

Doan is Messier, Sundin, and Demitra. He's done as an impact player and ought not to be paid like one well into his late 30s. He's a 55 point player that wants to make 85 point cash.

Not good value.
User avatar
Mondi
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 813
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:02 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Potatoe1 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:56 pm

FAN wrote:: I think Doan skates pretty well with a decent startup and a very strong skater.


Doan has been a below average skater for basically his whole career.

And whats your point anyway, do you think that he is going to be able to play until he's 40? Or is this just you keeping with your trend of constantly trying to start pointless debates with me.

I guess I should be flattered to garner so much of your attention :)
Potatoe1
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1613
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Jovocop » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:00 pm

Mondi wrote:If the Canucks sign Doan to 4 years and 30 million Strangelove, you can petition the mod to ban me. I won't object.

The point of the comparison, was to highlight the absurdity of what Shane Doan has been made out to be over the past 2 months.

This is a guy who has never put his team past the 1st round until his 16th season.

This is a guy who has never scored more than 31 goals in his entire career.

This is guy who is being mistaken for the second coming of Brendan Shanahan.

I suppose SL, as always, you're either king of hyperbole, or you just can't quite grasp it.

Doan is Messier, Sundin, and Demitra. He's done as an impact player and ought not to be paid like one well into his late 30s. He's a 55 point player that wants to make 85 point cash.

Not good value.


I would not be happy if the Canucks sign Doan to a 4 years $30m contract. As I said, I do not believe many GMs, except Holmgren, Sather, or Snow will give him that much. However, the current Canucks top-six is seriously missing some grit and size. Unless Kassian is 100% ready for that role, Doan will be the perfect candidate for the time being. He is an UFA that costs the Canucks nothing but money. Personally, I would be glad if MG could sign Doan to a 4 years $20m or a 3 years $16.5m contract.
User avatar
Jovocop
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1736
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby FAN » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:47 am

Potatoe1 wrote:Doan has been a below average skater for basically his whole career.


You have no idea what you're talking about. Have you seen Shane Doan play? Do you even know how to skate? Doan has a strong and smooth skating stride and has been known as a strong skater throughout his NHL career. Doan is plenty fast and should be evident to anyone who has watched him over the years.

Potatoe1 wrote:I guess I should be flattered to garner so much of your attention :)

Lol. You really should dial down your arrogance. It's unfortunate that you often don't comprehend what other people are writing because if you do comprehend what other people are writing, you won't always think it's a pointless debate whenever someone disagrees with you and proves you wrong. Ah well.
FAN
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby surreal78 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:47 am

Jovocop wrote:
Mondi wrote:If the Canucks sign Doan to 4 years and 30 million Strangelove, you can petition the mod to ban me. I won't object.

The point of the comparison, was to highlight the absurdity of what Shane Doan has been made out to be over the past 2 months.

This is a guy who has never put his team past the 1st round until his 16th season.

This is a guy who has never scored more than 31 goals in his entire career.

This is guy who is being mistaken for the second coming of Brendan Shanahan.

I suppose SL, as always, you're either king of hyperbole, or you just can't quite grasp it.

Doan is Messier, Sundin, and Demitra. He's done as an impact player and ought not to be paid like one well into his late 30s. He's a 55 point player that wants to make 85 point cash.

Not good value.


I would not be happy if the Canucks sign Doan to a 4 years $30m contract. As I said, I do not believe many GMs, except Holmgren, Sather, or Snow will give him that much. However, the current Canucks top-six is seriously missing some grit and size. Unless Kassian is 100% ready for that role, Doan will be the perfect candidate for the time being. He is an UFA that costs the Canucks nothing but money. Personally, I would be glad if MG could sign Doan to a 4 years $20m or a 3 years $16.5m contract.


Fo the articles I've read in the MSM and quotes from his agent, he's not even looking at contracts for less than 3yrs, and most are $6m+ per and 4-5 years. And the Canucks are supposedly on his "shortlist" and have an offer on the table. This leads me to believe that GMMG can't be offering less than $18m over 3yrs, otherwise we wouldn't be even in the game at this point.

He ain't gonna come cheap, no matter what arguments forum posters table.

Odds are he stays in PHX, anyhow. Bleh.
surreal78
 

Re: Shane Doan

Postby Potatoe1 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:37 am

FAN wrote:You have no idea what you're talking about. Have you seen Shane Doan play? Do you even know how to skate? Doan has a strong and smooth skating stride and has been known as a strong skater throughout his NHL career. Doan is plenty fast and should be evident to anyone who has watched him over the years.


:)

We'll agree to disagree.

I have been watching Doan since Jr, And his skating has never been a strength. There were questions about his skating when he was drafted, and questions about his ability to keep up on the big ice at the 2010 Olympics, which were a big reason he wasn't selected (despite always playing at the worlds almost every year).

Anyway, I'm not saying he's Dana Murzyn out there but his skating is certainly below average when compared to other top6 forwards, and the over all point is that the guys who are still effective in their very late 30's or early 40's tend to be great skaters and Doan certainly is no such thing.

Lol. You really should dial down your arrogance. It's unfortunate that you often don't comprehend what other people are writing because if you do comprehend what other people are writing, you won't always think it's a pointless debate whenever someone disagrees with you and proves you wrong. Ah well.


:lol:

OK Fan,,,,

Hey how about for the sake of my sanity you resist the urge to respond to everything I write. You already drove Coco totally bonkers, I would like to avoid a similar fate.
Last edited by Potatoe1 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
Potatoe1
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1613
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: Shane Doan

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:39 am

At those numbers, stay clear away MG. Im starting to get leery of the idea of Doan, his age is a real concern and I think those numbers are completely out of order. He's not an elite player. This could Sundin, Messier all over again or similar to the Oilers going down the Ryan Smyth road again.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4483
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Shane Doan

Postby coco_canuck » Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:07 am

FAN wrote:Lol. You really should dial down your arrogance. It's unfortunate that you often don't comprehend what other people are writing because if you do comprehend what other people are writing, you won't always think it's a pointless debate whenever someone disagrees with you and proves you wrong. Ah well.


So sensitive.

Potatoe1 wrote:Hey how about for the sake of my sanity you resist the urge to respond to everything I write. You already drove Coco totally bonkers, I would like to avoid a similar fate.


My sanity is fine btw, but I'm tired of the pointless debate after pointless debate with said poster.

There were too many to count over at Central, but in the spirit of a new start, I ventured into another discussion with this poster, much to my regret obviously.


Anyways, if Doan wants +7M, he'll have to go to the East. Reports are that Detroit dropped out, and I'm not sure if the Sharks or Kings would be willing to give Doan that much money. Somehow I don't see the Kings paying Doan as much, or close to Kopitar, and the already somewhat old Sharks should be leery of investing big in a +35 year old.

IMO, even if MG is going to overpay and give Doan some term, there's absolutely no way MG offers Doan as much as the Sedins make, let alone more.

I don't like giving Doan a 4-5 year deal at this age, especially at anything over $5M. It would be a "all-in" type of a move from MG if he gives Doan money and term, and the only real payoff would be winning a cup or two, which no one here would complain about, but it could turn out to be a contract that makes Ballard look like he's on an ELC.
User avatar
coco_canuck
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 966
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:54 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 4 guests