Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby dbr » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:36 am

SKYO wrote:I don't agree, the Sedins are actually one of the worst defensively on our team from the forward group, hence they never kill penalties and are only brought on when the penalty is about 10 seconds over so we can start to turn the tide, and this is when they are at their peaks, almost superstars.


They killed penalties and they did it just fine under our last coach.
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby tantalum » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:40 am

Boston Canucker wrote:I still don't like that we traded Hodgson (I recall with a smile sitting on a Boston bar, Jan 7, with my Kesler shirt on, surrounded by Bruins' chuckleheads, when Coho wired one top corner on Tim Teaparty...great moment!), but at the same time I don't really get Hodgson's complaints about the Canucks. Yes, there was the injury thing a few years back, but grow up already, and he was on a cup contender with a clear path to more playing time on the 2nd pp unit and 5 on 5 down the road as the Sedins got older. I'm still not even sure what to make of the whole Hodgson situation; in a sense, I'm not happy with either side, Gillis/AV and Coho/his dad. Here's hoping Kassian is the real deal. And it'll be interesting to see how Coho reacts to Buff grabbing two centers in round 1 this year.

Still, that was a great shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8pgCZxLueg


I'll mention it one last time...the reason Hodgson was traded and traded when he was:
1) while he may never had asked for a trade it was becoming apparent that a trade request was coming at some point. Likely following the playoffs.

2) Even if there was no trade request coming, the canucks at a minimum were finished with the meeetings about icetime etc.

3) AV and the coaching staff didn't trust him on the defensive side of the puck. As his defensive zone starts became neglible so to would his minutes in general down the stretch. He was going to lose icetime and perhaps begin sitting in the pressbox on occassion. As such his value would have decreased going into the summer. The trade was made at a time his value was elevated.

Now we can argue whether or not they were right in the assessment of is ability but that was why he was traded when he was.

I think the Hodgson act started to wear a bit thin with the media and perhaps Buffalo as well of late because just about everyone believes and has commented on the first round picks as being direct and in one case an immediate threat to Hodgson.

I think he gets put on a short leash next season. He'll get a good chance to play his 16 minutes a game on the second line but if he continues to be on the ice for 50% of the goals against he'll be out of the lineup in short order. Unlike last year when he moved to Buffalo and they were essentially out of the playoff race, the start of the year they will be in the race and they know how important a good start is. They aren't going to coddle players and let them jeopardize that for another year.




Sedins aren't bad defensively...they've been given the direction to think offense first. So they do. When asked to play defensively they have shown in the past they are up to the task.
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Boston Canucker » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:47 am

tantalum wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote:I still don't like that we traded Hodgson (I recall with a smile sitting on a Boston bar, Jan 7, with my Kesler shirt on, surrounded by Bruins' chuckleheads, when Coho wired one top corner on Tim Teaparty...great moment!), but at the same time I don't really get Hodgson's complaints about the Canucks. Yes, there was the injury thing a few years back, but grow up already, and he was on a cup contender with a clear path to more playing time on the 2nd pp unit and 5 on 5 down the road as the Sedins got older. I'm still not even sure what to make of the whole Hodgson situation; in a sense, I'm not happy with either side, Gillis/AV and Coho/his dad. Here's hoping Kassian is the real deal. And it'll be interesting to see how Coho reacts to Buff grabbing two centers in round 1 this year.

Still, that was a great shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8pgCZxLueg


I'll mention it one last time...the reason Hodgson was traded and traded when he was:
1) while he may never had asked for a trade it was becoming apparent that a trade request was coming at some point. Likely following the playoffs.

2) Even if there was no trade request coming, the canucks at a minimum were finished with the meeetings about icetime etc.

3) AV and the coaching staff didn't trust him on the defensive side of the puck. As his defensive zone starts became neglible so to would his minutes in general down the stretch. He was going to lose icetime and perhaps begin sitting in the pressbox on occassion. As such his value would have decreased going into the summer. The trade was made at a time his value was elevated.

Now we can argue whether or not they were right in the assessment of is ability but that was why he was traded when he was.

I think the Hodgson act started to wear a bit thin with the media and perhaps Buffalo as well of late because just about everyone believes and has commented on the first round picks as being direct and in one case an immediate threat to Hodgson.

I think he gets put on a short leash next season. He'll get a good chance to play his 16 minutes a game on the second line but if he continues to be on the ice for 50% of the goals against he'll be out of the lineup in short order. Unlike last year when he moved to Buffalo and they were essentially out of the playoff race, the start of the year they will be in the race and they know how important a good start is. They aren't going to coddle players and let them jeopardize that for another year.




Sedins aren't bad defensively...they've been given the direction to think offense first. So they do. When asked to play defensively they have shown in the past they are up to the task.


"one last time" ha, thanks, gramps, now go tell those kids to get off your lawn!
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby SKYO » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:47 am

Sedins aren't horrible defensively, but they man do they suck in our own zone, sure they have their moments here and there, but they pretty much are not built to backcheck folks.

All their energy lies in producing plays around the opponents net.
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby coco_canuck » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:49 am

SKYO wrote:Sedins aren't horrible defensively, but they man do they suck in our own zone, sure they have their moments here and there, but they pretty much are not built to backcheck folks.


Sooo, which one is it?
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby SKYO » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:54 am

coco_canuck wrote:
SKYO wrote:Sedins aren't horrible defensively, but they man do they suck in our own zone, sure they have their moments here and there, but they pretty much are not built to backcheck folks.


Sooo, which one is it?


Hovering above not being horrible.

Do you think otherwise? That the Sedins are actually good at killing penalites and backchecking?
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby tantalum » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:03 am

Boston Canucker wrote:
"one last time" ha, thanks, gramps, now go tell those kids to get off your lawn!


I did that yesterday! Well actually I told them to clean up their fireworks crap that landed on my lawn.

Man I hate this time of year down here. Sounds like I'm in the middle of a gang war from about 9 pm to midnight every night.
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Arachnid » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:04 am

Boston Canucker wrote:
tantalum wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote:I still don't like that we traded Hodgson (I recall with a smile sitting on a Boston bar, Jan 7, with my Kesler shirt on, surrounded by Bruins' chuckleheads, when Coho wired one top corner on Tim Teaparty...great moment!), but at the same time I don't really get Hodgson's complaints about the Canucks. Yes, there was the injury thing a few years back, but grow up already, and he was on a cup contender with a clear path to more playing time on the 2nd pp unit and 5 on 5 down the road as the Sedins got older. I'm still not even sure what to make of the whole Hodgson situation; in a sense, I'm not happy with either side, Gillis/AV and Coho/his dad. Here's hoping Kassian is the real deal. And it'll be interesting to see how Coho reacts to Buff grabbing two centers in round 1 this year.

Still, that was a great shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8pgCZxLueg


I'll mention it one last time...the reason Hodgson was traded and traded when he was:
1) while he may never had asked for a trade it was becoming apparent that a trade request was coming at some point. Likely following the playoffs.

2) Even if there was no trade request coming, the canucks at a minimum were finished with the meeetings about icetime etc.

3) AV and the coaching staff didn't trust him on the defensive side of the puck. As his defensive zone starts became neglible so to would his minutes in general down the stretch. He was going to lose icetime and perhaps begin sitting in the pressbox on occassion. As such his value would have decreased going into the summer. The trade was made at a time his value was elevated.

Now we can argue whether or not they were right in the assessment of is ability but that was why he was traded when he was.

I think the Hodgson act started to wear a bit thin with the media and perhaps Buffalo as well of late because just about everyone believes and has commented on the first round picks as being direct and in one case an immediate threat to Hodgson.

I think he gets put on a short leash next season. He'll get a good chance to play his 16 minutes a game on the second line but if he continues to be on the ice for 50% of the goals against he'll be out of the lineup in short order. Unlike last year when he moved to Buffalo and they were essentially out of the playoff race, the start of the year they will be in the race and they know how important a good start is. They aren't going to coddle players and let them jeopardize that for another year.




Sedins aren't bad defensively...they've been given the direction to think offense first. So they do. When asked to play defensively they have shown in the past they are up to the task.


"one last time" ha, thanks, gramps, now go tell those kids to get off your lawn!


Only if you promise to get out from under the bus..... 8-)
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby coco_canuck » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:08 am

SKYO wrote:Hovering above not being horrible.

Do you think otherwise? That the Sedins are actually good at killing penalites and backchecking?


When did I say they're "actually good at killing penalties and backchecking?"

Pointing out inconsistency doesn't mean that I hold a polar opposite view.

Just wondering whether there's a difference between being "horrible" and "sucking."

Both are equally bad, IMO.

Anyways.

The Sedins clearly aren't going to be Selke winners (although Henrik somehow managed a vote in that category this year), but they have been fair defensive players and fair penalty killers in the past.

I found the Selke vote for Henrik to be really funny, considering last year the Sedins probably had the worst defensive year that I have seen from them. However, the Sedins have at the very least been decent in their own end in the past, and it's something they can, and should get back to.
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby SKYO » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:23 am

coco_canuck wrote:
Pointing out inconsistency doesn't mean that I hold a polar opposite view.

Just wondering whether there's a difference between being "horrible" and "sucking."

Both are equally bad, IMO.


Good point, however I never said that you said "[twins] are good at killing penalties and backchecking" it was just a question.
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Topper » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:23 am

Skyo - horseshit
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby porp » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:23 am

"The best DEfense is good OFfense."

Playing keepaway in attacking zone does wonders for goals-against.

Hank is a decent two way player, it was always Dan who got criticized for not being great in his own end. Their lack of high-end footspeed detracts from the optics of their backchecking effectiveness. The main reason, I think, that the Sedins aren't used on the PK isn't so much that they aren't good at it, but that they are an exceptional threat to come onto the ice as the PK is ending and attempt to force the opposition PP to play defense, which even if it doesn't result in a goal, tires out the other team's top offensive players. The Sedins' energy is better used elsewhere, especially when we have defensive specialists who don't get regular PP minutes.
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby SKYO » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:25 am

Topper wrote:Skyo - horseshit

Informative comeback!
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Topper » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:34 am

The desision to remove Hank and Dan on the PK was one AV made when he made them the #1 line. he would rather maximize their 5 on 5 and PP time than take a few shifts of their overall time and use it for PK duties. Up to that point, they were very good on the PK using positioning and puck control rather than strength. The last few years, their defensive game has definitely slid. Rust?
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Re: Patience: Gillis is doing the right thing.

Postby Orcasfan » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:38 am

Topper wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:here he would be benched after a mistake.

and deservedly so.

AV gets a bad rap on this. He allows the youngsters to make a mistakes and expects them to learn from them, he does not allow repeat offenders to threepeat.

AV developed Kesler and Burrows in Manitoba before he came to Vancouver. Cody was treated more than fairly here. he was coddled for Christ sake. I argued before last season that he needed to earn his time from a defensive role on the 4th and 3rd line while most here wanted him on the 1st or 2nd line and qb'ing the PP. As I noted, such a scenario does nothing for his development. If Cody wants to whine at Robert's camp, I'm sure someone will find the mousy little turd a piece of cheese.

The development programs GMMG has put in place for the young players in the system is well known and rivals what private consultants like Roberts does.


Agree. This whole urban legend around AV being unfair to young players is ridiculous! The worst version has him actually being incapable of coaching youngsters! Somehow forgetting about his time in Manitoba and the young prospects he developed there! :roll: I wonder just which team/coach people have in mind as a comparison when they bring this up? It can't be Detroit, since their GM and coach seem to have exactly the same attitude and program! :hmmm:

By the way, just what young superstar prospect has AV put in the dog-house? The truth is that we have not had a real "star" prospect since the Sedins...The only one to come close was Bourdon, and I think AV coached him very well! Since then, with the exception of Cody, all our prospects have been mid-range, top 9 guys...so, of course, you want those guys to learn how to play defense!

As for the Sedins, the system of zone-starts that AV extensively uses results in their usage being predominantly offensive. It's not that they can't play defensively! After all, that's how they worked their way through the roster, from 3rd line to first! :wow:
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