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Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:49 am
by Fred
This might be interesting

http://www.puckreport.com/2012/01/2012- ... it-by.html

The other point is the NHL more than any other Pro league depends on gate receipts and event generated money...popcorn and beer sales etc. There is no huge TV revenue, primarily because it's not a national sport and depends on isolated pockets of fans in the Prime money generating Market the USA.

I can't feel bad for these guys, at least the owners had to pony up millions to buy a franchise and put collateral up. But none the less they're as greedy as the players

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:56 am
by Blob Mckenzie
Fred wrote:This might be interesting

http://www.puckreport.com/2012/01/2012- ... it-by.html

The other point is the NHL more than any other Pro league depends on gate receipts and event generated money...popcorn and beer sales etc. There is no huge TV revenue, primarily because it's not a national sport and depends on isolated pockets of fans in the Prime money generating Market the USA.
The NHL depends on gate receipts ? ........... and there is no huge TV revenue ???

Way to go out on a limb Fred.
Really cutting edge stuff there.

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:12 pm
by Fred
Blob Mckenzie wrote: The NHL depends on gate receipts ? ........... and there is no huge TV revenue ???

Way to go out on a limb Fred.
Really cutting edge stuff there.
Yeah I thought so :D

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:41 pm
by Strangelove
Blob Mckenzie wrote: The NHL depends on gate receipts ? ........... and there is no huge TV revenue ???

Way to go out on a limb Fred.
Really cutting edge stuff there.
tick... tick... tick.... :D

Like I said I'm going to do my best to ignore the negotiations, but I just wanted to add this:

By far the biggest issue is the percentage of the take, owners say 46%, they'll settle on 51%.

Players will push for more revenue sharing in exchange.

Not gonna be a helluva lotta change other than that imo (and in the big picture the rest doesn't matter much).

Now I'm out....

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:38 pm
by Potatoe1
I will be interested to see what the player counter offer is.

It's a first cut so why not start with;

-Remove the salary cap.

-Abolish Escrow and demand that owners return the money they have received from it.

-5 year ELC's (who cares about rookies)

-Free agency at 24.

-Remove Salary arbitration, we dont need it.

-Owners put 75% of revenue into a pool and share it.

-Keep every team where it is and expand to Quebec, Seattle, and Ontario.

Hmm, as a fan I wonder which system would work better....

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:10 pm
by Per
Aaronp18 wrote:
Renaud P Lavoie (@RenLavoieRDS)
2012-07-13 6:54 PM
NHL proposal to players: 1-reduce players hockey related revenues to 46% from 57 %. 2-10 seasons in NHL before being UFA
Renaud P Lavoie (@RenLavoieRDS)
2012-07-13 6:56 PM
3-contracts limites to 5 years 4-no more salary arbitration. 5- entry-level contract 5 years instead of 3
Adam Proteau (@Proteautype)
2012-07-13 7:34 PM
"The moment the proposal was presented, every player in the room knew Gary had just written off 1st 3 months of the season." - an NHL agent
Larry Brooks (@NYP_Brooksie)
2012-07-13 8:12 PM
Post has learned proposal calls for ceiling to be set $4M above midpoint, floor $8M under
Larry Brooks (@NYP_Brooksie)
2012-07-13 8:13 PM
Post has learned proposal would eliminate signing bonuses and mandate same salary in each season with 5-yr term limit
:evil:

I'm sure the players are enamoured.
:shock:

Guess the SEL teams should start talking to the NHLers they're interested in...
If the owners try to enforce this there won't be a lot of hockey played in North America next winter...

OK, the 46% is of course an attempt at being able to describe 50% as "middle ground" or a compromise. Not sure how hard the players are going to fight for more.

But entry level contracts running for five years? Sheesh!
And ten years before you become a UFA?

To me those sounds like terms the players just can't accept. That's increasing the level of serfdom in a world that otherwise is trending toward a greater degree of personal freedom. No way they will bow to those terms.

Furthermore, why should a promising European player accept five years of minimum wage in the NHL, when they can get a one or two year contract with twice that pay in the KHL? The way things are now, most East Europeans already opt out of the NHL system, while Swedish players still are willing to pay their dues by accepting a crappy entry level contract in order to play in the best league, knowing that they'll earn more later if they prove their worth. But five years? Suddenly the easy money in Russia may start to look a lot more tempting...

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:03 pm
by Strangelove
^^^^ Yeah we may see expansion in the Gulag now. :roll:

Poor NHL "serfs"! :lol:

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:19 pm
by Meds
So judging by this whole Weber fiasco, I think the new CBA is going to see some heavier restrictions on offer sheets and possibly up the compensation.

Betman, that little prick (just for you Dogsalmon), wants a competitive league where smaller, non-hockey, market teams have a chance to compete and draw in fans and revenues. If a team like Philly can come in with their deep pockets and scoop a guy like Weber out of Nashville just by signing him to an offer-sheet that is structured so that the smaller and lower budget franchise cannot match, then that is bullshit. Puts alot of strain on ownership for any team. Imagine if someone had signed the Sedins to contracts that would have seen them get paid out $26M each in the first year. Regardless of cap hit, I don't think Aquaman is matching that.

So what it comes down to is that Nashville drafted and developed Weber. Now they stand to lose him for draft picks. However, if they were allowed to match that contract but structure it so that it pays out a few $10M years rather than a whopping $26M in a single season, then maybe they can match. I really don't see the Preds being the team to sign on the line of the contract that has biggest single season payout in NHL history.

If Poile is in the middle of trying to work a deal, and wants to get the best he can for his team, then I don't think that any team should be able to waltz in and scoop Weber off the market. This smells like Philly was in the mix but Poile told Holmgren that he wasn't offering enough in return for Weber's rights, so Holmgren just over pays and screws the Predators. With Weber gone for just picks, Nashville goes, overnight, from being a contender in the west to a bottom 10 team overall. That's not the kind of NHL that Betman and Co are trying to build.

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:20 am
by Fred
Frankly if I'm the negotiation team for the NHL this Weber offer is going to be embarrassing IMO. While the NHL owners are trying to plead poverty the Flyers and Mr Snider comes in and offer a huge contract to a player. Ditto Parise and Suter. Frankly you start to think these owners deserve every thing they get ....and what they get is more for a few and less for the others. Plus of course a chnace of more financial calamity for some franchises. Which results in maybe less teams, less jobs for the NHLPA.

A pox on both their houses.

Incompetance abounds

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:28 am
by ODB
Meds wrote:So what it comes down to is that Nashville drafted and developed Weber. Now they stand to lose him for draft picks. However, if they were allowed to match that contract but structure it so that it pays out a few $10M years rather than a whopping $26M in a single season, then maybe they can match. .
Its 14m, or 20% of of the cap! Where is this 26m number coming from???

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:29 am
by Jovocop
Meds wrote:So judging by this whole Weber fiasco, I think the new CBA is going to see some heavier restrictions on offer sheets and possibly up the compensation.

Betman, that little prick (just for you Dogsalmon), wants a competitive league where smaller, non-hockey, market teams have a chance to compete and draw in fans and revenues. If a team like Philly can come in with their deep pockets and scoop a guy like Weber out of Nashville just by signing him to an offer-sheet that is structured so that the smaller and lower budget franchise cannot match, then that is bullshit. Puts alot of strain on ownership for any team. Imagine if someone had signed the Sedins to contracts that would have seen them get paid out $26M each in the first year. Regardless of cap hit, I don't think Aquaman is matching that.

So what it comes down to is that Nashville drafted and developed Weber. Now they stand to lose him for draft picks. However, if they were allowed to match that contract but structure it so that it pays out a few $10M years rather than a whopping $26M in a single season, then maybe they can match. I really don't see the Preds being the team to sign on the line of the contract that has biggest single season payout in NHL history.

If Poile is in the middle of trying to work a deal, and wants to get the best he can for his team, then I don't think that any team should be able to waltz in and scoop Weber off the market. This smells like Philly was in the mix but Poile told Holmgren that he wasn't offering enough in return for Weber's rights, so Holmgren just over pays and screws the Predators. With Weber gone for just picks, Nashville goes, overnight, from being a contender in the west to a bottom 10 team overall. That's not the kind of NHL that Betman and Co are trying to build.
As stated, only $14m (20% of $70m), not $26m. Here is a breakdown from canuckshockeyblog.com:

Image

They were a borderline contender with Suter. Without major additions, the Preds are just a pretender at best.

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:35 am
by Aaronp18
Weber gets paid $28M in the first calendar year of his deal as it works out. If I'm reading things correctly.

$14M now and then $14M July 1st 2013, and he can't be moved by Nashville if they match for one calendar year.

I could be mistaken though.

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:13 am
by dbr
ODB wrote:
Meds wrote:So what it comes down to is that Nashville drafted and developed Weber. Now they stand to lose him for draft picks. However, if they were allowed to match that contract but structure it so that it pays out a few $10M years rather than a whopping $26M in a single season, then maybe they can match. .
Its 14m, or 20% of of the cap! Where is this 26m number coming from???
I don't know how they get exactly to $26m but Weber can get $28m in salary and bonuses over the first two years of his deal as you pointed out.

Given it's July 19 and the contract will come into effect 7/25 then over the next calendar year Weber would see:

7/25: Signing bonus for first year of his contract
10/1-4/15 (or whatever): Salary for first year of his contract
7/1/13: Signing bonus for the second year of his contract

If they've managed to give him $12m in bonuses and $2m in salary in each of the first two years then you're looking at $26m over the next 365 days.

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:19 am
by Jovocop
dbr wrote:
ODB wrote:
Meds wrote:So what it comes down to is that Nashville drafted and developed Weber. Now they stand to lose him for draft picks. However, if they were allowed to match that contract but structure it so that it pays out a few $10M years rather than a whopping $26M in a single season, then maybe they can match. .
Its 14m, or 20% of of the cap! Where is this 26m number coming from???
I don't know how they get exactly to $26m but Weber can get $28m in salary and bonuses over the first two years of his deal as you pointed out.

Given it's July 19 and the contract will come into effect 7/25 then over the next calendar year Weber would see:

7/25: Signing bonus for first year of his contract
10/1-4/15 (or whatever): Salary for first year of his contract
7/1/13: Signing bonus for the second year of his contract

If they've managed to give him $12m in bonuses and $2m in salary in each of the first two years then you're looking at $26m over the next 365 days.
I guess the whole argument is that Weber cannot get $26m on one day. However, over 300+ days span, he can get $26m.

Re: NHL sends CBA termination notice!

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:34 pm
by clem
'Hockey is a sport ruled by deadlines. When do most trades happen? At the trade deadline. How many guys sign free-agent contracts before July 1? Not that many. The CBA doesn't end until Sept. 15. It's going to take time."

That said, by refusing to throw the players a little something, Bettman gave ammunition to those players/agents/NHLPA employees who believe he desires to test the players' resolve by forcing them to miss paycheques. No matter what he says publicly, he'll never be able to convince this group his motives are anything close to pure.
The view from Elliotte Friedman.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion ... ously.html