OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

[dhabums]

Thanks for the update, HW.


I wonder what Burrows market price would be? 4 mill?

Moreover, will Burrows be Burrows without the Sedins?

Depends on the asking price, maybe yeah, it's time to let him go.

I would give gim max. 3 and that's a little bit overpaid imo. Everything more is crazy but that's what market prices are sometimes.

How do you replace Burrows for $3M?

[Strangelove]

Can someone please explain to me what goalie graveyard means?

Ask Donny directly.



I have always thought it is a place where a super-ridiculous amount of pressure is placed upon any starting goalie.

But I suppose there are other definitions out there.

[dhabums]

Can someone please explain to me what goalie graveyard means?

Said Goaltender gets to Vancouver (or to be fair, other cities) full of promise and upside. The media and fans suck said promise and upside out like a buncha fuckin vampires and said goaltender leaves town as an empty shell of the man he once was.

Or something like that!

Have you tried Wikipedia?

Holy shit, look at that…

General manager Brian Burke had coined the term "goalie graveyard" during his tenure in Vancouver to describe the club's goaltending fortunes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Luongo

I do not think anyone goes to a graveyard full of promise. You get taken to a graveyard AFTER you die, right?

Sounds more like Brian was just trying to excuse his ineptitude.

[Strangelove]

September 30, 2006
Luongo strolls into 'graveyard'
By RANDY SPORTAK, CALGARY SUN

Simply lasting in Vancouver will be an achievement. A total of 18 goalies have tended the Canucks' nets since Kirk McLean departed in 1998. Even past GM Brian Burke referred to it as a goalie graveyard.

(1998 to 2006... 8 years and 18 goalies) (2006 to 2012... 6 years 1 goalie)

Careful what ya wish for....

Hmmm maybe we should call it The Curse of McLean.

The Curse of Jeff Brown??

[dhabums]

Can someone please explain to me what goalie graveyard means?

Ask Donny directly.



I have always thought it is a place where a super-ridiculous amount of pressure is placed upon any starting goalie.

But I suppose there are other definitions out there.

As is always almost the case, I was being a sarcastic bitch. It seems as if the term "graveyard" has taken on a meaning of its own.

In Burke's case, I think it meant "gathering place of a gaggle of sieves" that could be excused by fan pressure for said sieves to earn their millions. Martin Brochu is only a "deur" away from the hhof.

[Strangelove]

I do not think anyone goes to a graveyard full of promise. You get taken to a graveyard AFTER you die, right?

Well the thing is, goalies usually don't believe it's a graveyard... until it's too late!

It seems like a nice garden right up until Jeff Brown's cold hand reaches up out of the ground and grabs your ankle!!

I mean, umm, well ummm... errr... that's the way the story goes.

[clem]

Burkie coined the term Goalie Graveyard in reference to the high turn over rate for tenders between McLean & Luongo. Of course the local media, cretins that they are, ate it up.

I thought Burkie was full of shit, but ...... his terms still seem to have some play.

[tantalum]

...well I proudly state that I have always been a less than vibrant fan of the player.

I could go and on (and on) (ad nauseum) again (and again) about how I like the guy and that he's a top 5 netminder and the best we've ever iced but I do have this that and the other issue with his game. That, however, would be re-walking old ground and truthfully I've long since tired of the Luongo debate (and the Ballard debate and the Hodgson debate) and really only continue to throw shit out there on the subject once in a blue thread cause I love all y'all so damn much.

I just never thought (nor do I currently think) he has a Cup in him.

Just my thing, banging on me about his stats and stature, the Olympic Gold and our lack of goals in the Finals last year yada yada yada ain't gonna change my mind just like I'm not going to change anyone elses who thinks otherwise.

So be it...

I thought he did have a cup in him when he stood on his head those first playoffs as a canuck. I had my hopes. I've supported him because he is a damn good goaltender. While I even supported him this year my patience with him was at an end....a lot had to do with being in the bloody garden for that 8-1 debacle (my brother and I have a standing agreement that if the canucks make the cup final we go to a game...game 3 was the one that worked schedule wise for us). Hanging heads in shame through the streets of Boston after that game I told my brother "They aren't going to recover from that." His reply "Luongo won't recover from it either. I'm done with him." Now I held out hope of course but there was something in that game that may not have come across on TV. A goal would go in and we could observe the body language of every single canuck. The slumped shoulders. The eyes to the sky. The shakes of the head.

I waited until this year thinking that if Luongo is really the guy he thinks he is, that he will be THE difference maker. He HAD to be (even more so given how well Schneider played). This season he started slow as we all know and it put me on edge but let's wait and see I say to myself and others. Then through the middle part of the season he is that difference maker. GREAT! Then right at the end of the season he starts to crap the bed again. And while not terrible in those first two games of the series, he wasn't the difference maker. I think my patience was finally worn out this year.

Good or bad, it's time to turn the page. Let the "youngster" take over and use the $1-2 mil in cap savings to address some other areas. Pat on the back for Luongo for what he did do but turn the page.


In some respects I'm at the same point with AV but the only time he's had a roster healthy and deep enough to actually do damage they did.

[RoyalDude]

Here's the trade folks. Lou to the Leafs for Tyler Biggs and Carter Ashton. Now you have 3 big skilled gritty wingers in Kassian, Biggs and Ashton and then throw in a 4th 'big' winger in Jensen. Wing is set for the future, now watch Ricky Schroeder dipsy doodle as his big linemates make room for him. Fuck off to all those homo Schenn wants, the guy is useless to us.

Remember, Gillis says he wants to get Bigger, faster and younger.

There was a strong argument made in THN that both of TO first round picks would now be categorized as 2nd rounders and that inludes Biggs. ( Yo goota feel for the Leafs...or maybe not ) Carter Ashton big kid but a little short on skills from what I've heard and read. The idea of big wingers with a small centre I like, who can forget Ronning between Sandlak and Momesso. But IMO MG is collecting too many average wingers and sooner or later he's going to run out of Cap Space to make a real deal. We don't need a roster full of average skilled wingers

I strongly disagree with ya Freddy. After all is said and done, as always, I will be right about Biggs and Ashton, go back and re-visit my Connauton rants and raves, now everybody loves Connauton when way back y'all slandered me left, right and centre, for ranting and raving about this kids prospects. Those are the kind of kids we need on the 2nd and 3rd lines, bra. Big Bodied wingers, with Skill and Compete, fast. Trust me about Biggs, he's a more polished version of Kassian. Didn't Ashton have a fight in his first game with the Leafs? Like the old man, he can scrap and play, in fact his numbers in the AHL were better than Kassian's at the time Kassian was traded to Van. Ya gotta be jacked about the prospects of having big bodied wingers in Kassian, Ashton, Biggs and Jensen. Our forward depth on the 2nd and 3rd lines will be massive.

[CrzyCanuck]

Can someone please explain to me what goalie graveyard means?

Said Goaltender gets to Vancouver (or to be fair, other cities) full of promise and upside. The media and fans suck said promise and upside out like a buncha fuckin vampires and said goaltender leaves town as an empty shell of the man he once was.

Or something like that! .

Sure. Full of promise and upside right? Let's start from 1996 until the arrival of Luongo and see if you can pick any goalie that was so full of promise and upside.
1996 - Kirk McLean, Corey Hirsch
1997- Arturs Irbe, Garth Snow, Sean Burke, Kirk McLean, Corey Hirsch
1998 - Garth Snow, Corey Hirsch, Kevin Weekes aka goalie of the future
1999 - Felix Potvin, Garth Snow, Kevin Weekes, Corey Schwab, Alfie Michaud
2000 - Dan Cloutier, Bob Essensa
2001 - Dan Cloutier, Petr Skudra
2002 - Dan Cloutier, Alex Auld
2003 - Dan Cloutier, Alex Auld, Johan Hedberg
2004 - Lockout
2005 - Dan Cloutier, Alex Auld, Mika Noronen, Rob McVicar, Maxime Ouellet
2006 - Roberto Luongo, Danny Sabourin

Now, tell me, who exactly was so full of upside and promise? Just who? The term goalie graveyard would have been better implied to as a result of major failed scouting department (GM, too)

[Fred]

, go back and re-visit my Connauton rants and raves, now everybody loves Connauton when way back y'all slandered me left, right and centre, for ranting and raving about this kids prospects. Those are the kind of kids we need on the 2nd and 3rd lines, bra. Big Bodied wingers, with Skill and Compete, fast. Trust me about Biggs, he's a more polished version of Kassian. Didn't Ashton have a fight in his first game with the Leafs? Like the old man, he can scrap and play, in fact his numbers in the AHL were better than Kassian's at the time Kassian was traded to Van. Ya gotta be jacked about the prospects of having big bodied wingers in Kassian, Ashton, Biggs and Jensen. Our forward depth on the 2nd and 3rd lines will be massive.

I watched Connauton in Junior he was good but as I understand he still can't spell the word defence. He's had 2 years in the AHL and if he doesn't get it yet.................??

I want to see Jensen and Kassian succeed but they're at best another year away, unless there's dramatic improvemnt. That put's them at the end of the Sedin contract...who may well be extended if they still want to play. Both K + J might turn up trumps but the time frame is starting to fall by the way side for them + the Sedins to be at their best simultaneously.

[Diehard1]

...well I proudly state that I have always been a less than vibrant fan of the player.

I could go and on (and on) (ad nauseum) again (and again) about how I like the guy and that he's a top 5 netminder and the best we've ever iced but I do have this that and the other issue with his game. That, however, would be re-walking old ground and truthfully I've long since tired of the Luongo debate (and the Ballard debate and the Hodgson debate) and really only continue to throw shit out there on the subject once in a blue thread cause I love all y'all so damn much.

I just never thought (nor do I currently think) he has a Cup in him.

Just my thing, banging on me about his stats and stature, the Olympic Gold and our lack of goals in the Finals last year yada yada yada ain't gonna change my mind just like I'm not going to change anyone elses who thinks otherwise.

So be it...

I thought he did have a cup in him when he stood on his head those first playoffs as a canuck. I had my hopes. I've supported him because he is a damn good goaltender. While I even supported him this year my patience with him was at an end....a lot had to do with being in the bloody garden for that 8-1 debacle (my brother and I have a standing agreement that if the canucks make the cup final we go to a game...game 3 was the one that worked schedule wise for us). Hanging heads in shame through the streets of Boston after that game I told my brother "They aren't going to recover from that." His reply "Luongo won't recover from it either. I'm done with him." Now I held out hope of course but there was something in that game that may not have come across on TV. A goal would go in and we could observe the body language of every single canuck. The slumped shoulders. The eyes to the sky. The shakes of the head.

I waited until this year thinking that if Luongo is really the guy he thinks he is, that he will be THE difference maker. He HAD to be (even more so given how well Schneider played). This season he started slow as we all know and it put me on edge but let's wait and see I say to myself and others. Then through the middle part of the season he is that difference maker. GREAT! Then right at the end of the season he starts to crap the bed again. And while not terrible in those first two games of the series, he wasn't the difference maker. I think my patience was finally worn out this year.

Good or bad, it's time to turn the page. Let the "youngster" take over and use the $1-2 mil in cap savings to address some other areas. Pat on the back for Luongo for what he did do but turn the page.


In some respects I'm at the same point with AV but the only time he's had a roster healthy and deep enough to actually do damage they did.

This sums up how I feel about Lu as well, I'm a big supporter but it's time to turn the page. The Nucks need another top 6 forward and help on D - if Lu can bring one of those things plus a little bit more cap room to address the other I'm all for it.

On Connauton, I like the kid, he reminds me a bit of Jovo when he started out. Can make bonehead plays but can also make up for it with some goals and big hits. He's a guy that can be a difference maker in a few years which is needed, but he still has some room to improve before he's ready.

[ODB]

I strongly disagree with ya Freddy. After all is said and done, as always, I will be right about Biggs and Ashton, go back and re-visit my Connauton rants and raves, now everybody loves Connauton when way back y'all slandered me left, right and centre, for ranting and raving about this kids prospects. Those are the kind of kids we need on the 2nd and 3rd lines, bra. Big Bodied wingers, with Skill and Compete, fast. Trust me about Biggs, he's a more polished version of Kassian. Didn't Ashton have a fight in his first game with the Leafs? Like the old man, he can scrap and play, in fact his numbers in the AHL were better than Kassian's at the time Kassian was traded to Van. Ya gotta be jacked about the prospects of having big bodied wingers in Kassian, Ashton, Biggs and Jensen. Our forward depth on the 2nd and 3rd lines will be massive.

Spoken by a guy that I GUARANTEE hasn't seen Biggs play three games in his life! Dude wouldn't know Biggs if he was slurping up his spaghetti!

Get real man.... Biggs and Ashton for Lou, are you smoking cow-pies again?

I know you're just fucking with us so STOP it!

[ODB]

Can someone please explain to me what goalie graveyard means?

Said Goaltender gets to Vancouver (or to be fair, other cities) full of promise and upside. The media and fans suck said promise and upside out like a buncha fuckin vampires and said goaltender leaves town as an empty shell of the man he once was.

Or something like that! .

Sure. Full of promise and upside right? Let's start from 1996 until the arrival of Luongo and see if you can pick any goalie that was so full of promise and upside.
1996 - Kirk McLean, Corey Hirsch
Yadd yadda yadda...

Now, tell me, who exactly was so full of upside and promise? Just who? The term goalie graveyard would have been better implied to as a result of major failed scouting department (GM, too)

Oh literal-CrzyCanuck (awesome handle by the way, original and all around awesome, for real) I was joking... tongue in cheek sorta thing! One would think one could tell when I wasn't being very serious but alas... Now you know you shouldn't take everything I say literally. Sometimes I say things I don't necessarily believe. I say them to add humor to my post while still getting my point across. So as you can see there's no need to get all wound up.

[Meds]

On AV:

Wants to come back. Was part of the decision re Luongo/Cory and is fine with how it all went down. Has been silent waiting for MG to get his deal and business attended to. MG wants him back and it is expected that he will get a similar 4 year extension same as MG. MG has assured several players that AV will be back. The players are big AV supporters and want him back. A feeling of unfinished business. WOW.

Wow is right. A coach who can't inspire one of the best teams in the NHL to actually show up for more than a handful of games over a 3 months span, and then bows out in 5 games to the 8th seed while setting what has to be a franchise record low for GPG over the last 12 playoff games going back to the SCF. I guess it takes 3 strikes for the writing to be on the wall.

On Luongo:

Toronto is the front runner, for now. Allaire is the draw that has Luongo putting them on his list that does not exist. The cost will be high as MG does have 3 other teams that are also very high on Luongo but MG wants to try and deal Luongo to one of his top two choices, not at the risk of a bad deal, however.

Unsurprising. I think that the direction MGGM decides to go on the blueline will dictate what the best deal is as to whether or not he goes after cap space and prospects/picks or a legitimate return in the form of a player.

Kassian:

Players love him and feel he is the real deal. Described as a good kid and real team player. Was just a little lost at the end of the year and hasn't found a role. He is described as very reserved and shy. Team has him on a strict off season training plan and the players are very high on what he can bring to the team down the road. Next year may be a little too early to see what it is felt he can bring so time will tell.

Good to hear. I was getting skeptical about him towards the end, but did feel that he simply didn't have the experience to really find a role on a team that looked to be lost and in search of a collective identity the entire time Kassian was here (Also before he got here).

Salo:

Wants to come back one more year. Canucks have said the same thing to him as last year, we want you back but we have to wait to see what we can afford over the summer.

Good. I think that Salo is perhaps the best option for the bottom pairing, especially if he's coming back for relatively cheap. He's a great team guy, and for him to want to come back even though they are essentially telling him he is low priority going forward, that is great, even better that he understands and is all about the team here.

Burrows:

Took a home team discount last time with no regrets but won't this time around. Wants to re-sign but at full market value or he will go to UFA.

Also unsurprising. The guy has to be thinking that if Leino can score that much, he's worth equal cash. In my books Burrows is worth at least $4M.

To CrzyCanuck: Burrows has helped the Sedins as much as they have helped him. Hank and Dank were on a gradual upward curve that took a decent jump with Carter and then dropped back into its gradual ascension until Burrows ended up on their line. He made the PK better, gelled with Kesler, has been a solid contributor in every setting, has given the entire team much needed lift and scored some HUGE goals for the Canucks. I think that the Sedins without Burrows would see the twins playing at a 70(ish) ppg pace at best. Burrows was the only guy on the team, IMHO, that showed up and brought 100% every game this year. People can rant and rave about Kesler, the Twins, Juice, and Lou, but Burrows is the heart of this team on the ice. I think Burrows would be a consistent 60+ point guy if he got a chance to play in a more wide open system that put more emphasis on playing both sides of the rink rather than stacking on side and letting him battle in front against defenders that have 10-20+ pounds on him.

Edler:

Undisclosed injuries but I can't get any more than that but I'm thinking the back is just not right.

I still say move him if it paves the way for a shot at Weber or could land us Hedman in a package that sends Lou to Tampa.