OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby dbr » Wed May 16, 2012 10:06 am

I posted this elsewhere but Booth could come in next year without having improved one bit, and a full 82 games in a Canuck jersey would give him 26 goals. This year that would have put him at 45th overall in the league (and 18th among Western Conference players).

This year his cap hit put him at 70th among NHL forwards, another offseason will bump him down even further (he may not even be the Canucks fourth highest-paid forward next year).

People need to revise their expectations about what $4.25m gets you these days.
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Wed May 16, 2012 10:28 am

ESQ wrote:
My concern with Kesler was not that he's not awesome player, but with his style of play he won't have a long career. He's now going in to back-to-back off seasons with major surgery and rehab, and everybody agrees that his best year was a result of his off-season work and preparation.

That being said, you'd need an absolutely massive return for him, more of what Richards netted than what Carter netted.



Exactly the same as my concerns with Ryan Kesler. He has wrecked both hips and has had a shoulder surgery on his labrum. These are serious injuries and with his helter skelter style i can't see him being productive well into his 30's.

Not sure why you think the return for Richards is so much better than the return for Carter. It's tit for tat I guess. I think Couturier will be a better player than Schenn but I do like Simmons better than Voracek.

I would take either package for Ryan Kesler and run like hell. That isn't a shot at Kesler but anytime you can get two young guys ( 19 - 22) who can play a top 6 role for a guy who will be 28 coming off three major injuries you take it. Kesler's acidic atitude does him no favors either.

Couturier and Schenn will both be 2nd line centres at worst and Couturier and particular already looks like he is going to be a really good two way player. He was used in a shutdown role at the age of 19 in the playoffs.
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby Topper » Wed May 16, 2012 11:10 am

I think it was the prescient UW Saint who voiced the same concerns about Ryan's style of play at a very early stage of his career.
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby Farhan Lalji » Wed May 16, 2012 11:16 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:[

Exactly the same as my concerns with Ryan Kesler. He has wrecked both hips and has had a shoulder surgery on his labrum. These are serious injuries and with his helter skelter style i can't see him being productive well into his 30's.

Not sure why you think the return for Richards is so much better than the return for Carter. It's tit for tat I guess. I think Couturier will be a better player than Schenn but I do like Simmons better than Voracek.

I would take either package for Ryan Kesler and run like hell. That isn't a shot at Kesler but anytime you can get two young guys ( 19 - 22) who can play a top 6 role for a guy who will be 28 coming off three major injuries you take it. Kesler's acidic atitude does him no favors either.


Although I love Kesler and still think he has tremendous hockey left in him (he's 28 for fucks sake........not 34), I also wouldn't mind trading him if it benefited us obviously.

However - I am not in favor of trading him for kids that "might" pan out. The Canucks' window to win is now and I don't like the idea of trading roster players (let alone core players) for kids. Send every prospect/kid we have to Graham James for heaven's sake. Yes - Philly did really well with their transactions with LA but more times than not, trading for kids/prospects is a risk.

If we're dealing Kesler, try and package him off for Shea Weber. Not some pubeless 20 year old kid(s) that "might" help us in 2013/2014 when this current core will most likely be in decline.
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Wed May 16, 2012 4:05 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:
However - I am not in favor of trading him for kids that "might" pan out. The Canucks' window to win is now and I don't like the idea of trading roster players (let alone core players) for kids. Send every prospect/kid we have to Graham James for heaven's sake. Yes - Philly did really well with their transactions with LA but more times than not, trading for kids/prospects is a risk.

If we're dealing Kesler, try and package him off for Shea Weber. Not some pubeless 20 year old kid(s) that "might" help us in 2013/2014 when this current core will most likely be in decline.


Simmonds and Voracek were 22 yr old kids with a couple of solid seasons under their belt. Schenn and the high pick ( Couturier) were stud centres that were seen as 2nd line pivots at worst.

The fact that you want to load up this team with veterans with no regard to the future of the franchise is hilarious. Thankfully Mike Gillis doesn't share the same philosophy. The team needs to constantly be adding youth and developing young players. Other than Zack Kassian and Nicklas Jensen I don't see any young kids in the system poised to make an impact in the NHL.
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Wed May 16, 2012 4:10 pm

SKYO wrote:

DB not only failed the second line, but AV even put him with the mighty twins a lot and he still produced nothing!!!smh


I'd say give Burrows his contract, trade Booth for defensive help, and Luongo for a top 6 scoring help, or vice versa.


That first part is just a fucking lie. He never suited up with the twins until game 4 of the playoffs.


I totally agree about the 2nd part though. If MG can divest himself of Booth and give Burrows the raise he will be seeking I am all over it.
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby Farhan Lalji » Wed May 16, 2012 4:31 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
The fact that you want to load up this team with veterans with no regard to the future of the franchise is hilarious.


Now I didn't say that.

It's not like I want to trade our farm for Jarome Iginla.

All I'm saying is that the Canucks window is NOW.........and unless you want to wait another 4-16 years, the Canucks need to go for it next year.

I hardly think that attempting to get a guy like Shea Weber or Rick Nash is "disregarding the future." Either of those guys, if they were here, would be cornerstones for the franchise for many years.

Like seriously - what's the point of trading Kesler for kids that "might" be good in a few years? Not only does it hurt our chances of winning next year with our current core, but nothing is guaranteed for the future.

I guess is just depends on what you want. I'd rather attempt to follow the path of a Chicago........or fuck.......even Anaheim......if it means us winning a cup and being mediocre for a few years after that. I have no interest in seeing this team be the next San Jose Sharks or Washington Capitals. You trade Kesler for some pubeless kids with potential, then that's the risk you're basically taking.

I'd rather see the Canucks 'go for it' next year........and I don't think one needs to completely empty the cupboards in order for that to happen.
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Case in point: Our trade for Zack Kassian this year. What the hell did this trade achieve? Not only did it make the Canucks' a worse team since trade deadline, and DECREASE our chances of winning this year, but we still have no idea if Zack Kassian will pan out. If he pans out next year, then awesome. I tip my hat to Mr. Gillis.

If however - Kassian becomes a tremendous player in 2013/2014, and the twins/current core simultaneously start going into decline (consider their age), then what the hell did we really acheive?............other than a zero sum game?

Now what if - Gillis had packaged Hodgson (and whoever) for an immediate top 6 forward/impact player for these current playoffs? Think it might have made a difference to some of those EXTREMELY close losses we had to the Kings?

Based on how the Kings and Canucks were neck in neck in most of those games, combined with how St. Louis and Phoenix are getting absolutely destroyed by the Kings, is it presumptuous of me to assume that we could have been in the 3rd round right now had Gillis focused on the present at trade deadline?
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby Diehard1 » Wed May 16, 2012 6:15 pm

Looks like Jason Garrison would like to be a Canuck. He sure seemed to love the team in his interview today but I'm not sure if that's just him trying to push the Panthers to negotiate or not.

I'd be for picking him up - if nothing else it makes Ballard expendable and gets another asset in return. He's a lefty that can play the right side as well, big but not overly physical. A poor man's Hamhuis and a BC kid to boot.

He's also only 27 years old. Might be a bit overpaid as almost all free agents are, but if you can get him around $4 million a season he'd be a solid pickup.
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby Meds » Thu May 17, 2012 11:54 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
SKYO wrote:

DB not only failed the second line, but AV even put him with the mighty twins a lot and he still produced nothing!!!smh


I'd say give Burrows his contract, trade Booth for defensive help, and Luongo for a top 6 scoring help, or vice versa.


That first part is just a fucking lie. He never suited up with the twins until game 4 of the playoffs.


I totally agree about the 2nd part though. If MG can divest himself of Booth and give Burrows the raise he will be seeking I am all over it.


Errr, Blobcat? Booth did get shifts with the Sedins before game 4 of the playoffs, he would fill in for Burrows following a PK. This was not a regular thing, and sometimes it would be someone else getting that shift.

However, we all know SKYO likes to go off half-cocked more often than not.....
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby Potatoe1 » Thu May 17, 2012 1:56 pm

dbr wrote:I posted this elsewhere but Booth could come in next year without having improved one bit, and a full 82 games in a Canuck jersey would give him 26 goals. This year that would have put him at 45th overall in the league (and 18th among Western Conference players).

This year his cap hit put him at 70th among NHL forwards, another offseason will bump him down even further (he may not even be the Canucks fourth highest-paid forward next year).

People need to revise their expectations about what $4.25m gets you these days.


Yup,

The other thing to note is that he was getting second line ice time (14.5 mpg) and second unit power play times.

A 26 goal pace with the ice time he received is very good.
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby SKYO » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:52 pm

Strangelove wrote:Thanks HW, happy holiday!

So....

Luongo + Raymond for Schenn + 5th overall.


Manny bought out at a cap-hit of $800K each of 2 years.

Edler heals up and comes back strong.



Seems about right.
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby Strangelove » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:24 pm

... or how bout this.

Trade Lou/Schneids + Booth to Columbus for Nash. Sign Schultz. Deal off Mayray and Ballard for 7th round picks. Re-sign Pahlsson & Bitz.

sedin - sedin - nash
burrows - kesler - hansen/kassian/jensen
higgins - pahlsson - hansen/kassian/jensen
bitz/weise - lappy - hansen/kassian/jensen
bitz/weise

hamhuis - bieksa
edler - schultz/tanev/salo
alberts/grags - schultz/tanev/salo

lou/schneids
lack

Move right-wingers and RS-dee up-and-down and in-and-out the lineup.

Win Cup.

Repeat.
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:20 pm

Strangelove - do you happen to have bare chested pics of Rick Nash and Luke Schenn on your bedroom wall by any chance? :P

In all seriousness though, I'm also with you on the Rick Nash front. I also like your idea of having Nash play with the twins instead of with Kesler. The way the game is evolving (or devolving), it looks like we're slowly creeping back to dead puck hockey.

By putting Nash with the twins, that line gains a more physical presence. The other lines.......

xxx-Kesler-Burrows
Higgins-Pahlsson-xxx
xxx-Lapierre-Hansen

Gives the Canucks three lines that would be capable of playing excellent defensive hockey......with atleast some degree of scoring presence assuming full health.
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:14 am

Hearing the Canucks are planning a "bold" move July 1. Well, at least a bold offer. Don't know details.

They would like to have the goaltending "issue" resolved by the start of FA but are prepared to go into camp with both guys if they have to. In other words, we want to trade one but we won't be low balled so we can still have both if we have to but we really need to trade one so this is a bluff but we hope you buy it and if you really need a goalie you will cream your jeans and offer the moon but if you don't then we will threaten to play all year with both so there.
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Re: OK, So What I have heard this May 2012

Postby the Dogsalmon » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:20 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Hearing the Canucks are planning a "bold" move July 1. Well, at least a bold offer. Don't know details.

They would like to have the goaltending "issue" resolved by the start of FA but are prepared to go into camp with both guys if they have to. In other words, we want to trade one but we won't be low balled so we can still have both if we have to but we really need to trade one so this is a bluff but we hope you buy it and if you really need a goalie you will cream your jeans and offer the moon but if you don't then we will threaten to play all year with both so there.



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