Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:29 am

Tiger wrote:Jovocop said :
You could argue that Luongo did not raise his game X times to win game 7 in SCF; however, you could also agrue that the other injured players did not raise their games Y times to win game 7 as well.


Nope I would argue that our top 3 players .. Luongo and 2 Sedins where on the ice for all 4 goals against and that the Sedins are just as culpable for poor defensive play and not raising their game offensively.

Your arguement about trading a star dman for a goaltender is a bit faulty.. WE DID JUST THAT.. Aucoin and a draft choice for Cloutier..


Enough about the Sedins. They were the only ones who threatened any offence against the Bruins. If they had gotten ANY offensive support from the other three lines playing behind them things may have been different. Team doesn't even make the playoffs , let alone the finals without Henrik and Daniel.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby dbr » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:45 am

Mondi wrote:Now as I ask you...would you have traded Mattias Ohlund or Ed Jovanovski for Cujo in 2001?


Ironically it probably would have been a great trade for the Canucks.

I would have happily swapped out Jovanovski for Aucoin if it meant also swapping out Cloutier for Cujo.. that would have made a big difference in the 2002 and 2003 playoffs.

Not to mention that draft pick we included was high enough that Mike Cammalleri, Jason Pominville, Tomas Plekanec and Patrick Sharp were all still on the board (all drafted within the next 40 picks), not to mention a handful of other serviceable NHLers.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Mondi » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:54 am

If you read my above posts you would know that there are a constellation of factors that make Luongo a problem.

But your logic is so circular it hurts my brain...

If Luongo was a worse player you, wouldn't blame him for Van losing the Cup. If Luongo made less, you wouldn't blame him for Van losing the Cup. So what's your point? The big name guys who make more money and perform better during the regular season have to step up in the playoffs?

Just as guys who aren't as good get less credit for the wins, guys who are great get more credit. Oh, AND vice versa.

The point of all this...is that Luongo isn't worth that much on the trade market. NOT THAT HE IS A BAD PLAYER.

At least not as much as some posters are suggesting. The main reason is his ridiculously lengthy contract, the secondary reason is his inability to step up in huge games. Or his surprising ability to have his worst games at the biggest moments. Even the two best wins of career (arguably) had the guy coughing up a goal in the last 2 minutes of the third period.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby dbr » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:26 am

A players "market value" is a hard thing to pin down. There aren't many top 5-10 (let's put him there for the sake of argument) goaltenders in the league with good cap hits on huge, risky contracts who are 33 and maybe going downhill but also just recently had one of the best seasons of their careers.

Even if there were, there aren't any trades that have occurred in the same CBA environment as the one in which the Luongo deal will occur.

There's simply little or no precedent with which to make conclusions about Roberto Luongo's "trade value" - you might well be right but you could also be way, way off (in either direction, frankly).

I will be pleasantly surprised if Gillis can get a player of Gardiner, Reilly etc. calibre and age back in the eventual Luongo trade and pretty happy if it's as part of a larger package. I think if he can get a couple of GMs working against one another it's feasible, but I think it could go in the other direction as well - although who knows, maybe Gillis just sits on the Luongo deal for the forseeable future if there's nothing of value to be had.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Meds » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:36 am

Mondi wrote:Yeah, and in this case Luongo had better teams than the goalies listed (save MAF). And he still didn't win a Cup.


Clearly he didn't though.

Outside of one game against Chicago and the SCF against Boston Luongo was amazing in the 2010-11 playoffs. The SCF is inexcusable, though Vigneault proved himself to be a complete bust as a coach when he kept letting Louie have the starts, especially considering his track record against teams that manage to get in his head.....Schneider would have stolen one game in Boston. But that is neither here nor there.

The LA Kings STEAMROLLED the playoffs. If the Canucks were so much better than them then they should have posted, at a minimum, a 16-2 record enroute to a Cup. They didn't.

Not gonna argue that Thomas had a better team in front of him. He didn't. He had a bigger more responsible defense and the Canucks were just too beat up to even play anymore at that point, so it could be said that it came down to Lou versus the Bruins and Lou came up short. I guess that's bound to happen when you ask one guy to hold off 18 attackers.

Niemi was a fluke artist. We've all seen his performance since 2009-10. His Cup winning Hawks were arguable one of the most stacked teams to win it in recent history. The next year proved it when they had to blow up their team due to salary constraints. Niemi ended up on another NHL powerhouse, the Sharks, we all know their track record in the post season. Big players shit the bed and don't perform, goalie goes home with the rest of the team. Ironically, Bieksa's series winning goal in the WCF was a fluke which nobody faults Niemi on as he had no idea where the puck was and played it as best he could taking away 90% of the bottom of the net, that wobbler just found its way in.....had that been the Sharks scoring on Luongo Vancouver fans would have crucified Louie for that goal.

Regardless, if the Canucks were so much better than those other SC winners, then obviously the Canucks should have 3 banners in the rafters as those are the 3 teams that ousted them from the playoffs and went on to take home the Cup. The last 3 Cups as a matter of fact.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Tiger » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:42 am

Blob .. said:
Enough about the Sedins. They were the only ones who threatened any offence against the Bruins. If they had gotten ANY offensive support from the other three lines playing behind them things may have been different. Team doesn't even make the playoffs , let alone the finals without Henrik and Daniel.


Hmm we were discussing game 7 of the Bruins/Canucks series .. and the Sedins scored nothing and were on the ice for all 4 goals against..nothing to do with the regular season .. They did not do well against the Bruins in the series.. 1 even handed goal.. 1 power play goal in 7 games.. ended up with -7 .. and a -5,, Luongo? a sv % of .891 and Goals against of .341 . The "Stars" didn't come through ..With kesler playing injured and Hamhuis and Samuellson out there wasn't much offensive support to call on.. Lapierre and Burrows lead the team with 2 goals each.. Hansen had a decent series both offensively and defensively..

And YES the Sedins are slowing down .. and where on the ice for all 4 goals against in the final game.. No question about there regular season play.. without Luongo and the twins we wouldn't have won the Presidents trophy ..
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:20 pm

I get my back up a bit when the twins are bashed. You bash them...... a lot. I agree they aren't perfect , but they are the best value first line players in the league. You tell me where you are going to get that type of production at a combined salary of 12.2 million per season. They got zero support from Kesler, Raymond, Higgins, Sammy etc, or the decimated back end . I know they didn't deliver in game 7 but neither did anyone else. It's shocking the series actually went seven games.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Topper » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:50 pm

In most of the games that final, Timmy stoned them early in what could have been game changers.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby spooner » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:19 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote: It's shocking the series actually went seven games.


Indeed. That can be largely attributed to the play of Luongo in games 1, 2, and 5.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby vic » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:20 pm

Topper wrote:In most of the games that final, Timmy stoned them early in what could have been game changers.


TBL scored 22 goals on Thomas in the previous round, the Canucks with their back to back Art Ross Trophy winners, Selke winner, Hart and Lindsay award winners could only manage 8. The #1 PP in the NHL went an astounding 2-32 (?) in the series. Even if Luongo stood on his head in Game 7 and stopped 60 of 61 shots including 10 breakaways and 3 penalty shots, the guys who are paid to put the puck in the other net couldn't get it done even once in the final game.

Yet people still blame Loungo.

:? :? :?
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Uncle dans leg » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:38 pm

Topper wrote:In most of the games that final, Timmy stoned them early in what could have been game changers.

Agreed. Thomas performed as good as any goaltender in recent memory and was definitely full value for the Conn Smythe.
The Canucks had momentum and confidence going into that series and TT almost single handedly broke their spirit. Full credit to the rest of the Bruins but that performance was amazing.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby donlever » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:47 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:
The Canucks had momentum and confidence going into that series


Going into the series?

It's worse than that.

Up 2-squat we were in control of the series prior to Timmy boy taking over.

Even the most doubting Thomas (wot) of Nuck fans (myself included) had thoughts running through their heads that it was finally over and a Grail was coming to town when Burr scored in OT of game 2.

Unfortunately I now think that that was the final nail in the coffin of hope and it ain't never gonna happen.

Sigh.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Zedlee » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:55 pm

donlever wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:

Unfortunately I now think that that was the final nail in the coffin of hope and it ain't never gonna happen.

Sigh.


Losing that series, after being up 2-0, was the most devastating thing this fan has experienced. I want a Cup more than anything, but I don't think I'll ever be as emotionally invested in the Canucks as I was in 2011. I just don't have the stomach to take it anymore!
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby donlever » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:58 pm

Zedlee wrote:
donlever wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:

Unfortunately I now think that that was the final nail in the coffin of hope and it ain't never gonna happen.

Sigh.


Losing that series, after being up 2-0, was the most devastating thing this fan has experienced. I want a Cup more than anything, but I don't think I'll ever be as emotionally invested in the Canucks as I was in 2011. I just don't have the stomach to take it anymore!


Yep. I turned to my pops as we were standing and applauding after Burr scored and said, "we're gonna win a Cup old man, fuck me, it's finally gonna happen"....

Oops.

My bad.

Famous last words.

I'll never forget it.

Sucks to be a long time Nuck fan....

:(
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Uncle dans leg » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:06 pm

donlever wrote:
Yep. I turned to my pops as we were standing and applauding after Burr scored and said, "we're gonna win a Cup old man, fuck me, it's finally gonna happen"....

Oops.

My bad.

Famous last words.

I'll never forget it.

Sucks to be a long time Nuck fan....

:(

Damn! You had to remind me!!! I think I remember saying that theres no way canucks lose 4 of the next 5. No way.
The cup was ours!



Damn you Luongo!!! :twisted:
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