Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Jovocop » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:58 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:That would be nice if we can afford it, but having a $6 mill backup for most of the season is just not feasible in today's salary cap NHL.


ukcanuck wrote:yeah well then we should keep him and have him as our back up until the trade deadline and see what he's worth then.


The worst case scenario is 1A/1B instead of a startup and backup goalies. Luongo will not be a full time backup.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby dbr » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:00 pm

Luongo doesn't have a NMC, it is a modified NTC - and while Mike Gillis may never waive him, some other GM could if they chose to. (I don't think many would.)

Of course it remains to be seen whether the next CBA (or the one after that) would make it worth anyone's while to waive a player with a $5.3m cap hit.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Meds » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:56 pm

Zedlee wrote:duh...doesn't Luongo have a "no movement" clause? No minors for him.


Not according to capgeek. He has a No Trade Clause, but not a NMC.

For whatever capgeek's info is worth anyways.

Lever is right regardless, GMMG is not going to park him in the AHL.

Edit: dbr beat me to it...
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:18 pm

Fred wrote:Honestly would you give up Rielly or Gardiner if you were BB, he'd be lynched. Both young players best yet to come for a 33 year old goalie ranked 16th in the league for GA and 12th for SV%, & 14th for games won playing on the President Trophy team, he wasn't back stopping the Columbus Blue Jackets with those number.


Luongo's numbers for the past 7 or 8 eight years combined put him in the top 5 for average, save pctg and wins. He is a top 8 golaie in the league no matter what you think.

Then again this is the same poster who shouted from the rooftops the Alex Mogilny's play went into the toilet when he left Vancouver. Yes quite the ride into the shitter for Almo, winning a cup and putting up almost a ppg finishing out his career.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Mondi » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:24 pm

Why are we considering Luongo's numbers over the past 8 seasons?

He should be judged on his most recent body of work (i.e. one or two seasons max).

He's middle of the pack, I'd say from 10 to 15 of all starting goalies and trending down.

Why anyone would think that a top 5 overall pick is a fair trade or perhaps even a deal for Leafs, I cannot understand.

Not precisely comparable, but would anyone have traded Mattias Ohlund in 2001 for Ed Belfour? Or Curtis Joseph? I wouldn't have. And Rielly and Gardiner, may have more upside than Ohlund.

There is no reason to expect junk for RL, but I'm thinking a recent top 5 pick is unlikely. I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:42 pm

Mondi wrote:Why are we considering Luongo's numbers over the past 8 seasons?

He should be judged on his most recent body of work (i.e. one or two seasons max).

He's middle of the pack, I'd say from 10 to 15 of all starting goalies and trending down.

Why anyone would think that a top 5 overall pick is a fair trade or perhaps even a deal for Leafs, I cannot understand.

Not precisely comparable, but would anyone have traded Mattias Ohlund in 2001 for Ed Belfour? Or Curtis Joseph? I wouldn't have. And Rielly and Gardiner, may have more upside than Ohlund.

There is no reason to expect junk for RL, but I'm thinking a recent top 5 pick is unlikely. I hope I'm wrong.


So after one less than stellar season after 8 great years he's washed up ?
Middle of the pack after years of consistency ? Other than Rinne, Quick, Lunquist and Price.....maybe a couple others , I'm not sure who the better goalies in the league are. I think ranking him in the 10 - 15 range is a little harsh.
I wonder if all players are held to that high of a standard.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Southern_Canuck » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:45 pm

Mondi wrote:Why are we considering Luongo's numbers over the past 8 seasons?

He should be judged on his most recent body of work (i.e. one or two seasons max).

He's middle of the pack, I'd say from 10 to 15 of all starting goalies and trending down.


2011-12
16th in GAA (2.41)
12th in SV% (0.919)

2010-11
2nd in GAA (2.11)
4th in SV% (0.928)

2009-10
19th in GAA (2.57)
18th in SV% (0.913)

2008-09
5th in GAA (2.34)
5th in SV% (0.920)

2007-08
13th in GAA (2.38)
14th in SV% (0.917)

2006-07
6th in GAA (2.29)
4th in SV% (0.921)

All I see is an incredibly consistent and great goalie, backed up by consistently good stats. Did you say that after 2009-10 as well?

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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Mondi » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:05 pm

Yeah, fine. Maybe Luongo is top 5.

Regardless a guy 33, who is known for blowing up when it counts is not going to net you a top 5 pick. Hardly anyone is.

For the record, I didn't say he was washed up. I also didn't say to expect crap.

But, in my view, there are a number of goalies in a group with RL who can are comparable in value and may or may not be rated higher by subject assessment.

I'd say outside of Rinne, Quick and Lundqvist the following list are goalies worthy of comparison based on performance, value and potential over the next 4 to 5 seasons (in no particular order):

1. Schneider
2. Price
3. Fleury
4. Rask
5. Elliot
6. Miller
7. Hiller
8. Smith
9. Howard
10. Ward
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:20 pm

They probably won't get Rielly or Gardiner......but if the Leafs get off to a shitty start perhaps Burke could be convinced to push the panic button.

I would be ok with a 2013 1st rounder.......with Luongo there i believe the leafs make the playoffs so it would probly be a 16th- 20th overall pick in a deep draft. I'd also ask for one or both of Tyler Biggs and Matt Finn. If Burke will only cough up one maybe take Frattin off his hands........maybe Bozak to fill a hole for a year or two.

I will be furious if Kadri or Colborne comes back this way.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:51 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
As for Pertovic, it isn't about him being an NHL player or not. You said clearly that we needed a potential star prospect for Luongo. You can hype Petrovic as much as you like but NO ONE thinks he is a potential star.

Most, if not everyone, has his pegged as a physical stay at home type.

BTW have you even seen Petrovic play live?


Listen Pot Pourri. When I mention Petrovic I talk of his role in the grand scheme of a Lou trade as sort of a throw in, sort of what Kadri and Colbourne would be in a Toronto deal. I do not, have not, will not ever consider Petro as 'Star Potential', but if it is absolutely impossible for Gillis to get star potential I would much rather have a stab at Florida's 2nd tier prospects over Toronto's 2nd tier prospects.

I don't know Pot, you seem to like these sort of lightweight AHL superstars who lack those intangibles to make it in the NHL cause they simply are not THAT skilled enough to seperate themselves from the pack to have staying power in the league, ie Tambellini, Steve Kariya and the plethora of similar type AHL superstars out there past and present whom could never make the jump. I strongly feel that Kadri and Colbourne will be those types, they don't give you enough in other areas to make up for the fact that they cannot produce at a high clip offensively like the have and done in lesser leagues.

The reason I like Petrovic is that he has those intangibles that will enable to have a long career in the NHL which is why Hockeysfuture gives Petrovic a 'B' in the 'Probability of Success' category where as Kadri and Colbourne get a 'C' in the 'Probability of Success' category. Florida has 4 prospects with a 'B' rating in that category, Huberdeau, Bjugstad, Howden and Petrovic. I don't think we will be able to land Huberdeau or Bjugstad but I would be much more happy to land Howden and Petrovic over lets say Kadri and Colbourne by a country mile, if GILLIS simply cannot land 'star potential' in return for Lou.

It all comes down to, which prospects you think can translate their game to a long career in the NHL no matter the type of role they play and I believe that Howden and Petrovic do have that ability and Kadri and Colbourne do not.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:59 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
I will be furious if Kadri or Colborne comes back this way.


You and I may not agree on a lot of things Blobby Beers, other than that we both agree that the Arms Pub in that shite strip mall in PoCo is the best damn, greasy, hole in the wall pub of the Tri-Cities but I 100% agree with you regarding Kadri and Colbourne.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby dbr » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:18 pm

I'd be be disappointed if the best player we get back for Luongo at the time of the trade is Tyler Bozak (unless the deal is clearly tilted towards futures and we're getting a Reilly or Bjugstad type prospect in the deal).

If we can't get Reilly or Gardiner from Toronto I'd be asking for Carl Gunnarson plus a pick and one of their better prospects.

But if the Leafs or anyone else think they are getting a top 5-10 goaltender (yes Mondi that's what he is, your longstanding distaste for him aside) without giving up a decent player on or even near their roster they had better be prepared to pay through the nose.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby The_Pauser » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:27 pm

Mondi wrote:Yeah, fine. Maybe Luongo is top 5.

Regardless a guy 33, who is known for blowing up when it counts is not going to net you a top 5 pick. Hardly anyone is.

For the record, I didn't say he was washed up. I also didn't say to expect crap.

But, in my view, there are a number of goalies in a group with RL who can are comparable in value and may or may not be rated higher by subject assessment.

I'd say outside of Rinne, Quick and Lundqvist the following list are goalies worthy of comparison based on performance, value and potential over the next 4 to 5 seasons (in no particular order):

1. Schneider
2. Price
3. Fleury
4. Rask
5. Elliot
6. Miller
7. Hiller
8. Smith
9. Howard
10. Ward


This is a joke right? You would seriously take MA Fleury, Brian Elliot, Ryan Miller, Jonas Hiller, Mike Smith, Jimmy Howard and Cam Ward over Roberto Luongo? Am I on Punked or something?

Hell, what have Pekka Rinne, Tuukka Rask, Cory Schneider and Carey Price even done that has them ahead of Luongo?

What's funny is Henrik Lundqvist hasn't been able to get the job done in the playoffs either, and in fact by Luongo standards has choked, yet he somehow escapes criticism.

Luongo is easily a top 5 goalie and just giving him away to a team like Toronto would be downright idiotic.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:47 pm

The_Pauser wrote:
Mondi wrote:Yeah, fine. Maybe Luongo is top 5.

Regardless a guy 33, who is known for blowing up when it counts is not going to net you a top 5 pick. Hardly anyone is.

For the record, I didn't say he was washed up. I also didn't say to expect crap.

But, in my view, there are a number of goalies in a group with RL who can are comparable in value and may or may not be rated higher by subject assessment.

I'd say outside of Rinne, Quick and Lundqvist the following list are goalies worthy of comparison based on performance, value and potential over the next 4 to 5 seasons (in no particular order):

1. Schneider
2. Price
3. Fleury
4. Rask
5. Elliot
6. Miller
7. Hiller
8. Smith
9. Howard
10. Ward


This is a joke right? You would seriously take MA Fleury, Brian Elliot, Ryan Miller, Jonas Hiller, Mike Smith, Jimmy Howard and Cam Ward over Roberto Luongo? Am I on Punked or something?

Hell, what have Pekka Rinne, Tuukka Rask, Cory Schneider and Carey Price even done that has them ahead of Luongo?

What's funny is Henrik Lundqvist hasn't been able to get the job done in the playoffs either, and in fact by Luongo standards has choked, yet he somehow escapes criticism.

Luongo is easily a top 5 goalie and just giving him away to a team like Toronto would be downright idiotic.


Mondi must have missed the shooting gallery playoff series between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh last year which might have been the motivating factor as to why Shero brought in Vokoun this off-season. I'm surprised Mondi didn't add the other culprit to that list - Bryzgalov.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby The_Pauser » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:49 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Mondi must have missed the shooting gallery playoff series between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh last year which might have been the motivating factor as to why Shero brought in Vokoun this off-season. I'm surprised Mondi didn't add the other culprit to that list - Bryzgalov.


It's really disgusting how criminally underrated Luongo has become. He is easily a top 5 goaltender. Right now I would have Lundqvist (although barely), Quick, and Tim Thomas ahead of him. Pekka Rinne might have a slight edge, although he hasn't shown anything that suggests he should be put ahead of Luongo conclusively. Either way though, Luongo is still in the top 5.
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