Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby FAN » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:39 pm

dbr wrote:Well, the cap circumvention aspect of Luongo's deal looks more attractive in an environment where you can't simply create more cap space by waiting a year.

Hmm... I think I get what you're saying here. In my mind, the cap continuing to rise = Luongo's cap hit being a smaller percentage of the cap = Luongo's deal more attractive. You're saying the cap not continuing to rise but teams still handing out richer and richer contracts = Luongo's deal more attractive because of cap certainty?
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby dbr » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:08 pm

Well I suppose the certainty of a long term deal is nice too.

But what I'm really getting at is that the cap circumvention aspect of Luongo's deal is more attractive, because that extra $1.4m (ie. the difference between his salary and his cap hit for the next six seasons) is harder to come by without inflation pushing the cap ceiling up further and further every season.

If a team can't simply wait for the NHLPA to use it's inflator to bump the cap ceiling by 5%, or if revenues don't continue to grow, then the cap may remain more or less the same from one year to the next - something we've only really seen once or twice under this CBA.

Under those circumstances being able to circumvent the cap is even more important than it has been over the last few years (where bad contract cease to be bad simply by virtue of the cap ceiling increasing), assuming of course that Luongo is playing to the level of his salary.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby FAN » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:59 pm

dbr wrote:Under those circumstances being able to circumvent the cap is even more important than it has been over the last few years (where bad contract cease to be bad simply by virtue of the cap ceiling increasing), assuming of course that Luongo is playing to the level of his salary.

I see what you mean, but the key is Luongo playing to the level of his salary, and especially if the cap doesn't continue to go up, there's no indication that Luongo will play to the level of his salary.

Luongo essentially makes a little more than $6.7M+ a year. There are only two goaltenders that make more and there are only two goaltenders with a cap hit of more than $6.7M. So in a essence, if Luongo isn't a top 3 goalie in the league, the argument is that he's overpaid. Another way that is popularly used to determine worth is to speculate on what Luongo can sign for if he was a UFA this past season. Will he get $6.7M over 6 years from some team? I doubt it. Over $5M a year? I think so. So ya, what I'm trying to get at is that at his current cap hit, Luongo is worth it. At his current salary, he's not.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby wafflecombine » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:10 am

Meh... someday Canuck fans will look back on the passing of Lou with the same fondness some American's have for Bubba Clinton.

Do ya miss me yet?

And for the record, there were a lot of other goalies with higher cap hits than Lou that didn't win the cup last year.

We'll see how Cory fares in 2012/13 if there is a season while Lou does impressions of his team mates, plays online poker via his smart phone and jokes with the media while backing Cory up :)

I'd love to see a Lou impression of Hanson ;)
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Tciso » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:36 am

FAN wrote:I think so. So ya, what I'm trying to get at is that at his current cap hit, Luongo is worth it. At his current salary, he's not.


In the Cap era, salary is far less important than Cap space. So, from that perspctive, Lou is a steal. He's currently 9th, and falls to at least 10th next season in Cap hit. Imo, he's still a top 5 goalie. Goalie stats do not tell the whole story, as the team, and style in front of him make a guge difference.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:09 am

Tciso wrote:
4) we have a strong defense, and 2 rising stars in Edler and Tanev.


Tanev is a rising star ???

He will do well to one day become a 4/5 D-man. His shot couldn't break a pane of glass, he is as thin as a supermodel and as physical as Cliff Ronning. His biggest asset at this point is his brain and being able to play the right side effectively. If he was only able to play the left, he's not likely on the team.

I like the kid and see him as a Grant Ledyard/ broke man's Dan Hamhuis if he pans out. like I said a 4/5 tweener who's steady and smart.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby RoyalDude » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:50 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Tciso wrote:
4) we have a strong defense, and 2 rising stars in Edler and Tanev.


Tanev is a rising star ???

He will do well to one day become a 4/5 D-man. His shot couldn't break a pane of glass, he is as thin as a supermodel and as physical as Cliff Ronning. His biggest asset at this point is his brain and being able to play the right side effectively. If he was only able to play the left, he's not likely on the team.

I like the kid and see him as a Grant Ledyard/ broke man's Dan Hamhuis if he pans out. like I said a 4/5 tweener who's steady and smart.


I don't get you Blobby, you are totally pessimistic when it comes to the unknown potential of Tanev who has only played around 54 NHL games to date but you liken Booth to another Bill Guerin or something, not to mention your love affair for Keith Ballard. I think thats why you hate Tanev, cause he has already proven in his short time in the bigs that he is already a better D-man than your Boi Ballard.

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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:19 pm

Pacific Blue... I like Tanev but he sure as fuck aint no rising star. Pietrangelo, Doughty, Karlsson, Schultz, Gardiner, Hamonic etc... they have a shitload more potential than Tanev.

Why bring Ballard and Booth into this ? I am a fan of neither and hope both are dealt. I just don't beat a dead horse all day about it.

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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby RoyalDude » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:37 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Pacific Blue... I like Tanev but he sure as fuck aint no rising star. Pietrangelo, Doughty, Karlsson, Schultz, Gardiner, Hamonic etc... they have a shitload more potential than Tanev.

Why bring Ballard and Booth into this ? I am a fan of neither and hope both are dealt. I just don't beat a dead horse all day about it.

Red racer India Pale ale...........off the wagon


I know the brewmaster behind Red Racer. Never had one. I'm a creature of habit, ya ever long for the days of Extra Old Stock Tall boys, Molson Malt or Black Label, Blobby?
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby RoyalDude » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:01 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Pacific Blue... I like Tanev but he sure as fuck aint no rising star. Pietrangelo, Doughty, Karlsson, Schultz, Gardiner, Hamonic etc... they have a shitload more potential than Tanev.

Why bring Ballard and Booth into this ? I am a fan of neither and hope both are dealt. I just don't beat a dead horse all day about it.

Red racer India Pale ale...........off the wagon


Hamonic? I know of him but I don't think I've ever seen him play. Is he that good to be placed with Doughty, Pietrangelo, Karlsson? I wouldn't be slotting Schultz or Gardiner in with those 3 guys either.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:25 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:Pacific Blue... I like Tanev but he sure as fuck aint no rising star. Pietrangelo, Doughty, Karlsson, Schultz, Gardiner, Hamonic etc... they have a shitload more potential than Tanev.

Why bring Ballard and Booth into this ? I am a fan of neither and hope both are dealt. I just don't beat a dead horse all day about it.

Red racer India Pale ale...........off the wagon


I know the brewmaster behind Red Racer. Never had one. I'm a creature of habit, ya ever long for the days of Extra Old Stock Tall boys, Molson Malt or Black Label, Blobby?


Those are all awful bro. I could perhaps crave a Moosehead, or a Molson Golden or even a Schooner........but Old Stock and Black Label......yuck. let me guess you like Wildcat too .
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:27 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:Pacific Blue... I like Tanev but he sure as fuck aint no rising star. Pietrangelo, Doughty, Karlsson, Schultz, Gardiner, Hamonic etc... they have a shitload more potential than Tanev.

Why bring Ballard and Booth into this ? I am a fan of neither and hope both are dealt. I just don't beat a dead horse all day about it.

Red racer India Pale ale...........off the wagon


Hamonic? I know of him but I don't think I've ever seen him play. Is he that good to be placed with Doughty, Pietrangelo, Karlsson? I wouldn't be slotting Schultz or Gardiner in with those 3 guys either.


Hamonic will be a stud. He plays on a terrible team . Yes i overstepped placing Gardiner and Schultz with the other guys but they both have a shitload more skill and potential than Chris Tanev.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Raccoon » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:21 pm

My biggest concern about Bjugstad was that he'd pull a Schultz . Thanks to the poster who detailed why that's not possible.

I'm a bit surprised we're not talking about Gudbranson. He's the guy Friedman confirmed was Gillis's target on trade deadline. We also know Gillis goes after the same targets for a long time - Weise, Gragnani are examples. This Bjgustad 'rumor' stemmed from a USA Today writer - I'm not sure how he can get info that Kuzma, Botchford and all the other Vancouver media writers couldn't. There have been virtually no leaks with this whole situation. The only lapses have come from Luongo himself. There was a time when GM's were getting peeved cause they didn't even know the asking price. The general public still doesn't know the asking price, yet we're supposed to believe this USA today writer knows names? I wouldn't be surprised that Gudbranson is the target.

Either way, Botchford recently tweeted that Floridas offer is garbage. And other new teams are in the mix. I trust Gillis here. He's not in a situation where he needs to trade Lu, so he can wait till the right offer.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby FAN » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:20 am

Raccoon wrote:My biggest concern about Bjugstad was that he'd pull a Schultz . Thanks to the poster who detailed why that's not possible.

But there's nothing stopping Bjustad from playing two more years of college hockey and the become a UFA.

Raccoon wrote:I'm a bit surprised we're not talking about Gudbranson. He's the guy Friedman confirmed was Gillis's target on trade deadline. We also know Gillis goes after the same targets for a long time - Weise, Gragnani are examples. This Bjgustad 'rumor' stemmed from a USA Today writer - I'm not sure how he can get info that Kuzma, Botchford and all the other Vancouver media writers couldn't. There have been virtually no leaks with this whole situation. The only lapses have come from Luongo himself. There was a time when GM's were getting peeved cause they didn't even know the asking price. The general public still doesn't know the asking price, yet we're supposed to believe this USA today writer knows names? I wouldn't be surprised that Gudbranson is the target.

I think the idea is that Gudbranson is not a possibility.

As for the USA Today writer, the paper might suck, but the writer is Kevin Allen, and he's been a hockey writer for a very long time. He definitely has sources and is pretty credible. I've read his articles in the past and he seems pretty in touch with the Red Wings and Florida based teams so I wouldn't be surprised if Kevin Allen had better sources in regards to the Panthers than Friedman, Kuzma, and Botchford. With that belief, Gillis has stayed pretty quiet as far as Luongo trade discussions go and Tallon is probably much more willing to talk so that's likely one reason we've been getting very little information from local writers.
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Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Raccoon » Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:26 am

FAN wrote:
Raccoon wrote:My biggest concern about Bjugstad was that he'd pull a Schultz . Thanks to the poster who detailed why that's not possible.

But there's nothing stopping Bjustad from playing two more years of college hockey and the become a UFA.

I thought that wasn't a possibility as per the previous poster?

Raccoon wrote:I'm a bit surprised we're not talking about Gudbranson. He's the guy Friedman confirmed was Gillis's target on trade deadline. We also know Gillis goes after the same targets for a long time - Weise, Gragnani are examples. This Bjgustad 'rumor' stemmed from a USA Today writer - I'm not sure how he can get info that Kuzma, Botchford and all the other Vancouver media writers couldn't. There have been virtually no leaks with this whole situation. The only lapses have come from Luongo himself. There was a time when GM's were getting peeved cause they didn't even know the asking price. The general public still doesn't know the asking price, yet we're supposed to believe this USA today writer knows names? I wouldn't be surprised that Gudbranson is the target.

I think the idea is that Gudbranson is not a possibility.

Why is Gudbranson not a possibility? He's under contract by the Panthers, therefore he's a possibility. Some people have listed him as 'untouchable'. But fans don't create those lists, GM's do.

As for the USA Today writer, the paper might suck, but the writer is Kevin Allen, and he's been a hockey writer for a very long time. He definitely has sources and is pretty credible. I've read his articles in the past and he seems pretty in touch with the Red Wings and Florida based teams so I wouldn't be surprised if Kevin Allen had better sources in regards to the Panthers than Friedman, Kuzma, and Botchford. With that belief, Gillis has stayed pretty quiet as far as Luongo trade discussions go and Tallon is probably much more willing to talk so that's likely one reason we've been getting very little information from local writers.


I'm not sure why Tallon, or anyone in the Panthers org, would release info regarding their players. You start releasing names of your own players in potential trades - things are bound to get ugly (see Bobby Ryan). Tallon and Gillis have done business in the past, none of those trade details have been leaked beforehand. Allen could be right, or he could be making an educated guess. Wouldn't be the first time these 'hockey insiders' have done so.
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