MG Post Season Comments

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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Cornuck » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:38 pm

mathonwy wrote:The unfortunate part was the bad intel on Zack Kassian. Whoever provided that intel shit the bed royally and needs to be fired. I'm absolutely serious about this. Anyone have any ideas who the Nuck scout is on the east coast?


I can't understand why so many people are ready to throw Kassian under the bus. Coming into the season, he was Buffalo's top rated prospect. They had other 'power forward' types in the system, so they went with a good option to get Hodgson.

He's young, and will benefit from an off season with clear "Canuck" goals in mind. If he starts in the A next season, great - get him up to speed and bring him along. Sure we're all pissed that we lost a roster player for him, but give the kid a chance.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Fred » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:40 pm

Rich Winter has always been a contentious hard headed agent. When Hodgson changed agents that was the first domino. It would seem to me the expectations of the Hodgson family exceeded the reality of their son. I understand more than a few parents can't let go some thing like Lindros family ( Turris I believe is another ) I wish Hodgson well but he has to be good at both ends of the ice to be a #2 centre on a team and I don't think he'll ever rise to the #1 spot. I hope Kassian gets his head on his shoulders, become a student of the game and carrys a big stick. Remember when Cam Neeley came into the league as a rookie, he fought or obliged any one that asked and set himself up for years in the league. I think Kassian has to do the same...except it's hard to do that on a contender and with a coach like AV. Neeley was rarely asked to dance once his reputation was made
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Tciso » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:46 pm

Orcasfan wrote:Very interesting presser by GMMG! Actually gave out a lot more substance than I expected. I am still a fan of our GM! :) As far as the future of Raymond is concerned, I would suggest more of you have a read of a piece by Thomas Drance over at Canucksarmy a few weeks ago, where he dug deep in his analysis of Raymond's not-so-obvious value to the team. Bottom line, despite some regression in production, what he still brings is his capacity to "drive the game". I have been impressed with Drance's work for a while, and this piece is illuminating. By the way, he has another today that is also good about the organization's use of "advanced stats". Highly recommended! :hmmm:


I'd love to see Raymond get a little more leg strength and be able to hold his own. He changes the dynamic of a game with his speed, but does need to stand up more.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby donlever » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:47 pm

...judging Kassian now or deeming him a lost cause/poor pick up is just plain wrong.

Mathonwy has issues with him and that is his perogative of course.

But it is way to early to deem him unworthy or chastise our power brokers for the acquisition.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby tantalum » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:50 pm

Cornuck wrote:I can't understand why so many people are ready to throw Kassian under the bus. Coming into the season, he was Buffalo's top rated prospect. They had other 'power forward' types in the system, so they went with a good option to get Hodgson.

He's young, and will benefit from an off season with clear "Canuck" goals in mind. If he starts in the A next season, great - get him up to speed and bring him along. Sure we're all pissed that we lost a roster player for him, but give the kid a chance.


No kidding. The kid performed well in the AHL and earned his promotion to the Sabres. There was a reason he was in the NHL and not Foligno at the time and I don't believe it was because he was being showcased. It's because he was the one that earned the call up. Though I'm not pissed the canucks lost a roster player at all. I liked the trade then and I like the trade now.
Hodgson was never going to play the wing and he was never going to remove Henrik or Kesler from the top 6 whereas Kassian is the type of player the canucks were missing in the system and many teams hunt for. Don't get all excited because Foligno caught lightening in a bottle (and happened to play alongside Ennis who also caught lightening in a bottle and was the Sabres best player by far down the stretch).

The kid has great size, good speed and nice puck skills. Give the kid an off season of training to get into NHL shape and I suspect many people will be quite excited about this KID by February of next year.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Fred » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:56 pm

donlever wrote:...judging Kassian now or deeming him a lost cause/poor pick up is just plain wrong.

Mathonwy has issues with him and that is his perogative of course.

But it is way to early to deem him unworthy or chastise our power brokers for the acquisition.


You're right Kassian will be judged next season, but you have to admit to what you see. We can't keep being spoon fed about some time in the future. If you want to make a judgement you can only make it on what you see before you. I'm not so sure about some of the media hype and prefer to make my own judgment. Let's be honest some of the media are just plain idiots.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby donlever » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:58 pm

...no Fred I disagree.

You can make a judgement based on history, scouting, size, ability and skill set as well.

What we see is a big raw kid not ready to play for a top level NHL team.

To cast him aside because of that would be folly.

Even next year.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby mathonwy » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:09 pm

I judge Kassian based on what he's brought to the team since he came over at the deadline.

Someone told GMMG that Kassian was worth trading for "at the trade deadline as opposed to in the summer" because he could provide both short term and long term benefits to the Nucks for the rest of the season and the playoffs. Probably a scout.

Someone also told GMMG that our center depth was fine and we would be ok with parting ways with our stumpy playmaker rookie. Probably AV.

So, GMMG pulled the trigger and we got Gassian in return.

I am not deeming Kassian a lost cause nor am I throwing him under the bus. I'm throwing the person that provided GMMG the intel that Kassian-would-be-immediately-useful-to-the-Canucks under the bus.

Speaking about this season only, we took a major hit when we got rid of Coho and acquired Kassian. We lost a lot of forward options and in the playoffs, he played 5:37 in game 1, 6:00 in game 2, 3:55 in game 3, 3:42 in game 4 and he was sat in game 5.

The numbers speak for themselves.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby donlever » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:19 pm

mathonwy wrote:
Someone told GMMG that Kassian was worth trading for "at the trade deadline as opposed to in the summer" because he could provide both short term and long term benefits to the Nucks for the rest of the season and the playoffs. Probably a scout.



What GMMG said yesterday doesn't jive with this. I think he targeted a young player for the future. End of story.

I don't think they had any thoughts that he would provide short term benefits for the team. As a matter of fact GMMG talks about a kid who could have been playing junior last year (and was the year before) when discussing how raw he actually is.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Arachnid » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:29 pm

Fred wrote:
donlever wrote:...judging Kassian now or deeming him a lost cause/poor pick up is just plain wrong.

Mathonwy has issues with him and that is his perogative of course.

But it is way to early to deem him unworthy or chastise our power brokers for the acquisition.


You're right Kassian will be judged next season, but you have to admit to what you see. We can't keep being spoon fed about some time in the future. If you want to make a judgement you can only make it on what you see before you. I'm not so sure about some of the media hype and prefer to make my own judgment. Let's be honest some of the media are just plain idiots.


Yeah right, that's what many said about the Sedins and the afore mentioned CoHoe, people criticized them too when they were young....thank the Hockey Gawds™ that there are real GMs and there are pot smoke'n cyber GMs 8-)

Is he a sure thing? No, but give him a couple of seasons at least..... :roll:
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby mathonwy » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:35 pm

donlever wrote:
mathonwy wrote:
Someone told GMMG that Kassian was worth trading for "at the trade deadline as opposed to in the summer" because he could provide both short term and long term benefits to the Nucks for the rest of the season and the playoffs. Probably a scout.



What GMMG said yesterday doesn't jive with this. I think he targeted a young player for the future. End of story.

I don't think they had any thoughts that he would provide short term benefits for the team. As a matter of fact GMMG talks about a kid who could have been playing junior last year (and was the year before) when discussing how raw he actually is.


From an exec level, that doesn't make any sense.

One has to be concerned about both the tactical and strategic when you're about to move a valuable asset like Coho at the trade deadline.

Tactically, the trade was a failure. In retrospect, we lost options on our special teams, we lost TOI and we lost all of the systems knowledge that the Nucks had invested in Coho. When Kassian came over, it looked like he was auditioning for preseason camp as opposed to preparing for the playoff stretch run.

I can't believe that GMMG didn't have any thoughts about the short term benefits for the team. It doesn't seem logical to me.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Per » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:38 pm

dbr wrote:Just curious - what does it say about the Cody Hodgson camp that Mike Gillis traded him for a player with a deceased dad?


LOL! Just one more example of Gillis's smarts and attention to detail! :P
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby donlever » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:39 pm

..c'mon mathonwy, he discussed Coho yesterday. The kid had to go. He was a pain in their ass and they wanted him out the door.

So he targeted young assets and made the deal.

He may have tried to sell us on Kassian being ready to smooth it over for us poor fans but clearly Zach wasn't.

The deal was about removing what they saw as an issue and replacing it with something they needed for the future.

You wanna know what I really think?

I think the Canucks thought their was a snowballs chance in hell that they were going to succeed in the post season this year and started making adjustments for next year early while filling in a couple of holes (Pahlsson) just in case.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:42 pm

I have to agree with Donny. I think the Canucks made the determination that Cody wasn't here for the long term and he was becoming more and more of a distraction to management. Once they decided he was going to go they put their sights on what type of player they wanted back and took the only one of the 6 that was made available. Keep in mind that they pumped Cody's tire's to create a trade value. Perhaps if they waited until the off season Cody's trade value may not have been as high, or at least that may have been the fear. As well, the Sabres needed help now and after the deadline they may not have been willing to move Kassian.

Now this is all supposition by MG and company so the move was made. How accurate were they in their assessment that Cody's trade value may go down in the off season we will never know. We will never know if he would have been a playoff warrior for us. We can assume not because it is unlikely that AV would have trusted him enough to play much.

I think they had hopes that Kassian would be able to play responsible 4th line minutes and provide some toughness. But I also think they were prepared for him not providing much of anything. Maybe they would have been better served to send him to Chicago for the rest of the year?

We had expectations that MG would get us immediate help and if some of the other players he targeted had been made available maybe he would have succeeded. My only question is why did he not shop Cody? He knew what he wanted back, they had pumped his tires to increase trade value so why not shop him? I'm sure a number of GMs would have made some offers. Maybe they would not have been what MG wanted but unless you explore that.

That part scares me because we possibly have a goalie available this summer. I would like to think that MG shops and gets the best deal.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby donlever » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:48 pm

Hockey Widow wrote: That part scares me because we possibly have a goalie available this summer. I would like to think that MG shops and gets the best deal.


I think that the power brokers always have a line on what they want and what they would take for any player.

I think that once in a while a situation arises where you have to make a snap judgement and take what you have targeted rather than try and finagle a little bit more.

I think that there is that same snowballs chance in hell that even the stones under the stones won't get turned over in the possible dealing of a netminder.

I also think that Doc may be on to something, there were Canuck rumblings/rumours along the Nash line of thinking when Howson was making his efforts to trade Rick. Maybe Cody and something is going to move that way for Nash and something.

Now wouldn't that be something!
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