MG Post Season Comments

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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby donlever » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:20 pm

I must say I am most pleased with the overall boards demeanor..

Next year is our year, not last nor this but next...trust me on that.


Yeah, that's the ticket.

Or the year after that.

Or maybe the next one.

The year after that???

:sly:
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Larry Goodenough » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:25 pm

Jovocop wrote:
Larry Goodenough wrote:
Eddy Punch Clock wrote:These two comments are as much about retaining as much trade value possible afaic.


You're taking a risk offering Raymond a new contract as you might get this years model again. You're taking a risk letting him walk away if he returns to the model from the 2 previous seasons after a proper off season of training.

I'll also point out last year, Raymond had just as many even strength points as he did the year before. The reduction in points came from less time on the PP and no kelser on the 2nd unit. I assume that means Gillis saw more value in his previous season than most fans.

I would think what Gillis does depends on how the team feels his injury affected him this season. These comments might shed some light on his thoughts.


Why didn't Raymond get more PP time? Was he surpassed by others on the pp depth chart? Henrik, Daniel and Kesler were fixtures on the powerplay. Would you rather have Booth, Higgins, and Burrows on the powerplay than Raymond? He was given every chance to succeed but failed to do so. Unlike Kesler, Raymond was not expected to carry a line. He was just there to compliment a line but still failed miserably.


Not this season, last season.

Raymond's breakout season of 2009-10 was very comparable to his 2010-11 season. The difference was Kesler was moved to the top PP unit and that unit took alot of PP time away from the 2nd unit. Raymond averaged 40 PP seconds less per game (46 minutes over 70 games) and also missed a bunch of games with a broken hand. But average fan only saw points go from 50+ to 39 and said he had a bad year.

Gillis saw Raymond led the whole team in puck possession numbers last year and averaged the same amount of even strength points as his breakout season.

What I'm saying is Gillis probably sees Raymond as having one bad year, while most fans will say he's had 2 bad years in a row. That is what might influence Gillis' decision.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:28 pm

Larry Goodenough wrote:You're taking a risk offering Raymond a new contract as you might get this years model again. You're taking a risk letting him walk away if he returns to the model from the 2 previous seasons after a proper off season of training.


I don't see a lot of downside in qualifying Raymond if the cap increases as expected.

Give him another year at 2.5 to see if he can get his shit together and if he cant then let him walk as a UFA.

If the Canucks move Luongo there is a very good chance they will be well below the cap next year.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby rats19 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:30 pm

donlever wrote:
I must say I am most pleased with the overall boards demeanor..

Next year is our year, not last nor this but next...trust me on that.


Yeah, that's the ticket.

Or the year after that.

Or maybe the next one.

The year after that???

:sly:

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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:36 pm

Topper wrote:Gillis confirmed much of what HW passed along to us after the trade deadline. We need something better than Velcro to make sure HW does not leave us. Hmmmm I've got a set of handcuffs and stocks in the basement.......



Couldn't agree more, talk about single-handedly making this board worth reading, not that there aren't others as well :D
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Topper » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:47 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:One thing I meant to say, MG said that Cody was built up for a trade. He didn't use those words. By design he took fewer than 5% defensive zone face offs and was put in the best position to succeed.


Unfortunately zone starts are tracked and Gillis was less then truthfull with his comments on that.

It was, much as Tant regularly does, a number thrown out off the top of his head to show the point and most of us were not too thick to miss the point.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Eddy Punch Clock » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:59 pm

ukcanuck wrote:Couldn't agree more, talk about single-handedly making this board worth reading, not that there aren't others as well :D


My ears are burning...
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Larry Goodenough » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:00 pm

Finally heard the comments.

Gillis did say good things about Vigneault but refused to say he'll be coming back.

Vigneault was also not there, like he has been in the past.

Refusing to say he's coming back for sure means something.......
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Eddy Punch Clock » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:08 pm

Larry Goodenough wrote:Finally heard the comments.

Gillis did say good things about Vigneault but refused to say he'll be coming back.

Vigneault was also not there, like he has been in the past.

Refusing to say he's coming back for sure means something.......


All it means to me is that he hasn't talked to the boss yet and that there is a due process for these things.

Although Aquallini (Aqualinni?) could have very well told him last off season that anything less than another finals appearance and AV is gone.

Either way, a presser is not the time to divulge that information.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:13 pm

Topper wrote:It was, much as Tant regularly does, a number thrown out off the top of his head to show the point and most of us were not too thick to miss the point.


Gillis doesn't strike me as a guy who throws around numbers flippantly, he's typically very measured.

Cody's zone starts were pretty normal for a young player and only slightly tilted to the offensive zone.

Fairly obvious Gillis is saying some of this stuff in response to the heat he is taking for the trade.

If Zack had come in and killed it, he likely wouldn't have said anything about Cody.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Zamboni Driver » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:37 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:Fairly obvious Gillis is saying some of this stuff in response to the heat he is taking for the trade.
If Zack had come in and killed it, he likely wouldn't have said anything about Cody.

Yep, getting Zack for the playoffs was a gamble, it didn't work out. (although I'm not sure Cody would have made a difference)

If GMMG plans to have Schroeder or another center make the team next year and figured that Cody was the odd man out - I'm fine with that.
Having Cody as 3rd line center means that we can't bring up another center for 2 - 3 years, so perhaps he felt that Schroeder's potential was better than Cody's the move makes sense.
I'll wait and see.

If he Cody wasn't happy with 13 - 16 min per night as a rookie third line center and his "entourage" was whining too much about it then I can totally understand the deal.

Potatoe1 wrote:
Larry Goodenough wrote:You're taking a risk offering Raymond a new contract as you might get this years model again. You're taking a risk letting him walk away if he returns to the model from the 2 previous seasons after a proper off season of training.


I don't see a lot of downside in qualifying Raymond if the cap increases as expected.
Give him another year at 2.5 to see if he can get his shit together and if he cant then let him walk as a UFA.
If the Canucks move Luongo there is a very good chance they will be well below the cap next year.


The downside is that if you can't or don't move BobbyLou, then cap space is an issue.
If you had only $3 mil cap left ,would you rather give Schneider a $3 mil raise and keep him here, or bring Raymond back?
I can see them giving MayRay the same money as Hansen or Higgins on a 1 year deal, but 2.5 is too much for what we've seen the last 2 years.I feel bad for the guy getting wrecked by the Boston Goon, but he's got to prove that he can justify 2.5 mil on this team.

GMMG could give him a 1year deal for say $1.8, and let him prove himself, then offer a new contract next year if he bounces back.
Just my $.02
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby donlever » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:42 pm

...Yeah I believe he has to be qualified at his existing contract value or he is free to go as a UFA.

So 2.5 or the road as I understand it.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby tantalum » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:59 pm

Topper wrote:
Unfortunately zone starts are tracked and Gillis was less then truthfull with his comments on that.

It was, much as Tant regularly does, a number thrown out off the top of his head to show the point and most of us were not too thick to miss the point.[/quote]


I'm far too tired...am I being insulted here?
Last edited by tantalum on Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Larry Goodenough » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:03 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:One thing I meant to say, MG said that Cody was built up for a trade. He didn't use those words. By design he took fewer than 5% defensive zone face offs and was put in the best position to succeed.


Unfortunately zone starts are tracked and Gillis was less then truthfull with his comments on that.

Clearly he was getting sheltered ice time but what Gillis said was a major exaggeration if not fabrication.

Cody was getting slightly more offensive zone draws then defensive, he was playing with 3rd and sometimes 4th liners, and getting second unit power play time (Which was well deserved BTW he was very, very good on the power play).

That said I do believe him when he says that Cody was a PITA.



Here's a table of Offensive Zone starts

Oct. Ozone Start% Nov. Ozone Start % Dec. Ozone Start % Jan. Ozone Start %
H. Sedin 78.3% 78.5% 80.3% 80.1%
Kesler 45.6% 49% 51.4% 47.7%
Hodgson 52.2% 40.9% 33.3% 83.3%
Malhotra 26.3% 16.5% 0.09% 0.01


Something happened in January and Gillis/Vigneault decided to deploy Hodgson much differently. Perhaps this was the point where they had enough and decided to try and inflate his value for a trade?

It's not a coincidence that 83.3% Offensive zone faceoff rate corresponded with the rookie of the month award.

But why would Gillis admit to trying to inflate player's value before trading them? Would it not be better not to alert other GMs that this is one of your strategies.
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Re: MG Post Season Comments

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:29 pm

donlever wrote:...Yeah I believe he has to be qualified at his existing contract value or he is free to go as a UFA.

So 2.5 or the road as I understand it.



I say qualify him and then trade him for a second round pick :lol:
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