Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

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Eddy Punch Clock
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by Eddy Punch Clock »

the Dogsalmon wrote:if Mayray is qualified then we know the aquaman made a booboo with GMMG's extention...
They'll qualify him and trade him by December at the latest.

Unless of course he has an amazing camp and pre season... which I don't think he has it in him. And even at that I'd trade him while he's hot and try to squeeze every bit of trade value out of him that they can.
2011..... the one that got away.

TDA Rum
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by TDA Rum »

I disagree...Mayray is still an asset, the question being how valuable an asset, and Gillis doesn't let assets go for free... whether he gets a 2nd round pick or a 7th round pick, if and when he decides to move him...

I agree EPC..

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the Dogsalmon
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by the Dogsalmon »

TDA Rum wrote:I disagree...Mayray is still an asset, the question being how valuable an asset, and Gillis doesn't let assets go for free... whether he gets a 2nd round pick or a 7th round pick, if and when he decides to move him...

I agree EPC..


wrong....when an asset is worth nothing and costs you money its called a liability...

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Jovocop
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by Jovocop »

RoyalDude wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:

It's sentimental for a fan, but this guy went to war for the franchise and is probably permanently disabled because of it. It would be incredibly gutless for the Canucks to dump him before giving him every chance to come back "healthy".
Being that May Ray doesn't get the same respect as Manny's eyes troubles do after nearly getting wheelchaired for the rest of his life last June and y'all choosing to ignore that is all the facts I need to prove that you guys have a serious man crush on Manny, ignoring the fact that his on ice product completely sucks, kind of similar to the man crush that Linden got around here as well. "Good Guy in the Community" like it somehow meant that he was a great hockey player as well.
Getting wheelchaired?? Do you know that Raymond just got a baby boy in April? Do the math. He was actually making the baby in July/August... That must be part of the rehab, eh?

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mathonwy
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by mathonwy »

the Dogsalmon wrote:
TDA Rum wrote:I disagree...Mayray is still an asset, the question being how valuable an asset, and Gillis doesn't let assets go for free... whether he gets a 2nd round pick or a 7th round pick, if and when he decides to move him...

I agree EPC..


wrong....when an asset is worth nothing and costs you money its called a liability...
Or ex-wife.

wafflecombine
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by wafflecombine »

Damn straight mathonwy. I'm not even sure its worth getting married anymore.

But we digress off the topic.

So MG is back, this says to me that the team isn't going to change much. Maybe a coulple of set pieces, more rotation of the bottom end, etc..etc.

Question is it enough now that we are back in the dead puck era?

TDA Rum
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by TDA Rum »

that is where we disagree...Mayray is not an asset worth nothing, he is far from being washed up and AHL fodder...i think you will see a much better Mason Raymond next year...

the question is whether he will fit with the Canucks and help them out...

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Jovocop
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by Jovocop »

wafflecombine wrote:Damn straight mathonwy. I'm not even sure its worth getting married anymore.

But we digress off the topic.

So MG is back, this says to me that the team isn't going to change much. Maybe a coulple of set pieces, more rotation of the bottom end, etc..etc.

Question is it enough now that we are back in the dead puck era?
With the dead puck era looming, the Canucks defense should get stronger and tougher. Skills is not as important as before. :(

ESQ
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by ESQ »

RoyalDude wrote:Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far way...blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I just love the man crush going on around here with Manny Malhotra. What is it? Is it because he is married to Steve Nash's sister, really WTF is it? I would even go as far as saying that Ryan Johnson would be a better option than Malhotra.

But hey, keep on giving Manny that massive rope cause of his eye injury.
Not entirely sure you actually read my post, if you did you'd see that I was merely pointing to these things called "facts" that show Manny was not "no offense". To take it further, in a fourth-line, PK role with no PP time and no offensive zone starts, Manny put up 18 points, good for 109th in the NHL.

If there are 4 centres x 30 teams + 120 centres, that puts Manny right in the middle of the road for 4th line centres. Last year he was among the most offensive 3rd line centres when he was put in that role. So to label Manny as "No Offense" is inaccurate. What exactly did you hope to see offensively from your fourth line centre this year?

I'm not saying I agree in any way with this ridiculous method of assessing players based only on their offense, but even on that manufactured system you're wrong about Manny.

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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by Waffle »

Sorry Nuckle, I thought the discussion was centering on Raymond.

Speaking of centers, It is more difficult to evaluate Malhotra and whether or not he is doing enough for the team and his contract.

Looking at his stats while goals were scored when he was on the ice with a "close score" at hockey analysis, his Haro+ (offence generated with the median player being one) was 0.943 so he was a little worse than "average" for his position but is pretty good considering his rare offensive zone starts. His Hard+ (defence stat) was 0.642 which is much worse than average, and likely even worse than what you would expect from all his defensive zone starts. However, these numbers reflect his whole year, and he was much worse at the start than at the end. For comparison:
.........................Haro+..........Hard+
Manny M...............0.943..........0.642
Z. Konopka............0.348..........1.673
J Stoll..................0.573..........1.488
Colin Fraser...........0.812..........1.604
D Langkow............1.172..........0.874
Boyd Gordon..........0.994..........1.006

The Coyotes got at least the same and probably more out of Boyd Gordon at half the cost (cap hit 1.325 million) than the Canucks got out of Malhotra on the ice. The intangibles off the ice are impossible to evaluate.

There is a list of free agent centrmen at this site although the one for centericemen is from last Nov:
http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/tag/201 ... ee-agents/

dbr
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by dbr »

I will say this, as respectable a player as Manny Malhotra is (was? whatever), the Canucks would be vastly better off if they could acquire a center closer to Ryan Kesler in ability than Manny. The type of center Cody Hodgson was supposed to be, that Manny Malhotra never could be.

I think Ryan Kesler is best suited as a center and obviously he's got a great track record of matching up against the opposition's best players and shutting them down and producing some offense to boot. But he has also played the wing, both on a powerplay unit and on a pretty effective scoring line. A center able to either skate with Kesler on a scoring line or to center his own scoring line (taking pressure off the Sedins and allowing Kesler to play the role of SuperManny) would give the coaching staff a huge amount of flexibility.

Pushing Kesler to the third line and Manny and Max to the fourth would allow the team to roll four lines, and putting Kesler on the wing with a dangerous offensive center would give them two scoring lines that would be nearly impossible to match up against (with a reasonably respectable third and fourth line left over).

I realize this is similar to what Farhan proposed earlier but I think our reasoning is pretty different - where FL argued we need someone ready for when the Sedins decline or leave or what have you, I think we could use that player right now; more than we could use a player like Rick Nash for example.

Right now the wingers we have who will be on the roster next season (if they aren't cut loose or traded) are Daniel, Burrows, Booth, Raymond, Higgins, Hansen, Kassian. Any of those players is good enough to play on a second or third line provided a strong enough center, and we've got enough wingers for three and a half lines already. Contrast that with our center depth which right now features Hank, Kesler and then two guys ideally not playing above the fourth line for more than a stretch.

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Orcasfan
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by Orcasfan »

Agree, dbr. The problem is that those guys are not so easily found! Now, with Kes' injury/surgery situation, the need to find another option at C for the 2nd or 3rd lines is paramount! Even if we factor in a good return for Luongo, just who fits that bill on the rosters of either TB or Toronto? Maybe Connolly, but he is really unproven. There's no guarantee that he will be up to the challenge in the next couple of years, let alone this coming season. :hmmm:

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Hockey Widow
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by Hockey Widow »

With Kesler once again recovering from off season surgery we know we will be in a hurting way to start the season down the middle. Funny, this time last year we were debating that we didn't have to try and trade for Turris because we were so deep at centre. Not anymore.

I am fine with a recovered Manny on the third line. I think if he has a full off season to train he will return to that Manny that we loved to watch hold down the third line and play a huge role in shutting down other teams. But it is certainly a question mark at this point. And the FA list is pretty scary.
The only HW the Canucks need

wafflecombine
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by wafflecombine »

hahaha.

HW beat me to the exact same line of thought. So odds look pretty good we are looking for a second line centre int he off-season. I wonder if this is the beginning of a transition to Kes being the elite, offense/shut down 3rd centre that people have talked about before?

So left hip done, right hip done, right shoulder done... damn, I worry about man's durability.

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Jovocop
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Re: Off-Season Trade Thread - Needs/Wants

Post by Jovocop »

dbr wrote:I will say this, as respectable a player as Manny Malhotra is (was? whatever), the Canucks would be vastly better off if they could acquire a center closer to Ryan Kesler in ability than Manny. The type of center Cody Hodgson was supposed to be, that Manny Malhotra never could be.

I think Ryan Kesler is best suited as a center and obviously he's got a great track record of matching up against the opposition's best players and shutting them down and producing some offense to boot. But he has also played the wing, both on a powerplay unit and on a pretty effective scoring line. A center able to either skate with Kesler on a scoring line or to center his own scoring line (taking pressure off the Sedins and allowing Kesler to play the role of SuperManny) would give the coaching staff a huge amount of flexibility.

Pushing Kesler to the third line and Manny and Max to the fourth would allow the team to roll four lines, and putting Kesler on the wing with a dangerous offensive center would give them two scoring lines that would be nearly impossible to match up against (with a reasonably respectable third and fourth line left over).

I realize this is similar to what Farhan proposed earlier but I think our reasoning is pretty different - where FL argued we need someone ready for when the Sedins decline or leave or what have you, I think we could use that player right now; more than we could use a player like Rick Nash for example.

Right now the wingers we have who will be on the roster next season (if they aren't cut loose or traded) are Daniel, Burrows, Booth, Raymond, Higgins, Hansen, Kassian. Any of those players is good enough to play on a second or third line provided a strong enough center, and we've got enough wingers for three and a half lines already. Contrast that with our center depth which right now features Hank, Kesler and then two guys ideally not playing above the fourth line for more than a stretch.
If the Canucks are serious about winning the Cup, they might be better off going with four "physical" shutdown lines and three "physical" shutdown defensive pairings instead. :hmmm:

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