Game 4 playoff elimination - Luongo or Schneider?

[Farhan Lalji]

1) Goalies can be good until the age of 37-38. Our "window" is within the next 1-3 years.

I boldly predict three years from now the Canucks will be getting routinely bitch slapped by the Oilers. Schneider or Lou, it won’t matter much then.

Exactly. I feel the same way.

That's why as much as I hate to admit it, it might almost be irrelevant that Schneider is "7 years younger" than Bobby Lou.

Our window at most is 3 years. Could even be sooner.

Right now - we have to go with the best assembled team possible. Luongo isn't as good as Schneider, but he's a lot closer than most people would want to admit. Schneider will get us MUCH more in return..........and whether people in this city want to admit it or not, Luongo is good enough to 'win' (as he proved in the Olympics), and he's still better than most goalies out there.

Personally? I think the Canucks' biggest need right now is to put themselves in a position where they can either have 3 really strong lines that can score, or have two extremely dominant lines.

If the Canucks can somehow assemble another offensive line that can free up the twins (i.e. the twins don't have to always face elite shut down pairings from other teams), whether it's by bringing in a top calibre player to play alongside Kesler, or bringing in another top line player that can anchor a whole new line, then I think the Canucks will be in the position where they need to be.

The Sedins', without the pressure of facing top shut down pairings in the playoffs, will start producing like their regular season selves. Either that, or the new top line (from the assets of a Schneider deal) would do this.

The Canucks are already a good defensive team and whether it's Schneider or Luongo, are set in net. It's our ability to score goals in a playoff environment which is our biggest downfall. A Schneider trade is the best way to remedy that in my opinion.

[newcanuckfan]

I think we're over-stating how much of a tipping point tonight is for the franchise. They'll be plenty of time for reflection if the series ends tonight or in the next week.

Tough choice since both have what it takes to get the win.

And while its sexy and titillating (like Lever's GDT's) to think of Schneider starting, I can't see it happening.

It'll be Lu as AV / MG choose experience and put the pressure on #1. (though arguably there's more pressure on the top 2 lines than anyone else - but that's another thread / another day!).

[Farhan Lalji]

I am glad Farhan isn't our GM, as you haven't a clue as to what trade value is....

Oh I'm sorry.

You are right and I am wrong.

Luongo has just as much trade value as Schneider.

Oh wait a minute - that's not what you said. Did you even say anything?

What's your opinion?

As the old saying goes, "Douchebags living in douchebag glasshouses shouldn't throw douchebag stones."

[mathonwy]

Thumbs up for donnie.

Cap space cap space cap space.

Imagine if we could get ginger for 3.5 for 5 years. Or even 4 for 5 years.

That would be outstanding.

Our "window" is all dependent on our 2nd line.

...

Full stop.

No post season talk for me until the post season.

[Farhan Lalji]

No, sorry btw, the sigh thing might have seemed a bit condescening, unintentional.

lol it's all good.

This is all just GM/FL assumption.


We have no idea what Luongos future holds. Facts dictate his game is moving in the wrong direction though. (i.e. he is not what he once was mentally or physically)

We do not know that Schneider will fetch us MUCH more in return at all. That is for GMMG to consider and deal with. I mean the great Cody Hodgson only got us Zack Kassian after all.

True, but using that argument, we have no idea what Schneider's future holds either. Maybe the pressure demands of being a #1 will make him like Steve Mason (as Ohdee pointed out). Bottom line? We can't predict anything.

Luongo's stats haven't been too bad this year have they? They've pretty much been on par from how he's performed here in other years (http://canucks.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8466141). According to the stats, he played better than he did in 07/08 (although granted, that team was shit), and in 09/10.

Also - Schneider's value is far greater than that of Hodgson's. Schneider is one of the best goalies in the league. Hodgson, on most teams, is barely 2nd line calibre at this point in his career.

What is this 90% versus 20%-30% thing, you grab those out of your bushy playoff beard? Not only are those numbers meaningless guesstimates they changed from the last time you posted several minutes earlier.

Ok fine........ya got me here.

I'm pulling the percentages out of my Hindu bum, but the truth of the matter is that Luongo is almost as good as Schneider.......and yet the disparity in what each guy would command in a hypothetical trade is very large.

Schneider + assets from a Luongo deal < Luongo + assets from a Schneider deal.

The Canucks would be a better team with Luongo in net plus the assets from a Schneider deal as opposed to the other way around in my "ever so humble opinion."

[Farhan Lalji]

Imagine if we could get ginger for 3.5 for 5 years. Or even 4 for 5 years.

That would be outstanding.

Me having a 3 way with Jody Vance and Hilary Duff would also be outstanding..........doesn't mean it's going to happen though.

Schneider will probably command more than that.

And again - what will an extra 1.5 million do anyways? Get us some dickhead of Matt Cooke calibre?

Extra cap space doesn't necessarily mean that we'll sign the players that we need anyways.

By trading Schneider, you can atleast target the type of player that you need.

Wouldn't Rick Nash look good in a Canucks uni right now?

[donlever]

Also - Schneider's value is far greater than that of Hodgson's. Schneider is one of the best goalies in the league. Hodgson, on most teams, is barely 2nd line calibre at this point in his career.

Yet the reality is he has yet to be the man which is what the Luongo detractors (some of/sometimes) use as a portion of the reasoning behind keeping Roberto and trading Cory.

GMMG: But Stevie, Cory is one of the best goalies in the league.

Yzerman: LMFAO, dude hasn't even been a full time starter yet buddy. You been dining out with Farhan Lalji for fuks sakes?

As far as us being bitch slapped by the Oil in 3 years we have a hockey department here whose job it is to make sure that does not happen. Why can't we be like Detroit and keep being successful. Kesler, Booth, Hammer, Edler, Tanev, Higgins, Hansen, Kassian..all in their 20's still.

I'm pulling the percentages out of my Hindu bum, but the truth of the matter is that Luongo is almost as good as Schneider.......

lol

[Reefer2]

The goalies have not lost the playoffs for the Nucks I would be happy with either, Canucks just need to score some goals.

How is that for insightful well thought out discussion. O yea trade Sedins, Kelser, Luongo, Edler, fire AV and get CoHo back and we will win the cup next season. party time.

For the record, I think the Canucks have to go with Luongo, he is the #1.

[Farhan Lalji]

Also - Schneider's value is far greater than that of Hodgson's. Schneider is one of the best goalies in the league. Hodgson, on most teams, is barely 2nd line calibre at this point in his career.

Yet the reality is he has yet to be the man which is what the Luongo detractors (some of/sometimes) use as a portion of the reasoning behind keeping Roberto and trading Cory.

GMMG: But Stevie, Cory is one of the best goalies in the league.

Yzerman: LMFAO, dude hasn't even been a full time starter yet buddy. You been dining out with Farhan Lalji for fuks sakes?

GMMG: Hi Columbus - you still trying to trade Rick Nash.

Columbus GM: Yeppers.

GMMG: We could give you Luongo in a package of some sort.

Columbus GM: Eat the hairs in my ass. I ain't interested.

GMMG: We could give you Schneider in a package of some sort.

Columbus GM: Lets talk.

Boom.

[donlever]

How is that for insightful well thought out discussion.

lol, you're not supposed to carry your bitterness from thread to thread reef.

[donlever]

GMMG: We could give you Schneider in a package of some sort.

Columbus GM: Lets talk.

Boom.

GMMG: Would you take Edler and Burr as well because we won't be able to afford them anymore.

[wafflecombine]

I respectfully disagree with the posters who assert Lou has little trade value or significantly less than Schneids.
Despite the haters here, both goalies are extremely solid and bring slightly different things to the table. As a result I will say each commands a slightly different space in the goalie marketplace.

It all depends on who is in the market and what they are looking for. All things being equal, the tipping point in my mind is cap space. Lou is 5.3 (??) and Schneids is probably (2.5-3) for the foreseeable future.

Either way, I hope we bend over whoever wants for as much as we can get. While everyone is on the we need a new offensive punch band wagon, I still firmly believe our defensive house is not in order. We shit the bed many times this year and the only reason we were where we were was stellar play from Lou AND Ginger. Playoffs have been about lack of scoring, penalties and defensive lapses.

I see the following players that may be considered as trades in the coming season.
Lou/Schneids - time will tell
Raymond,
Hansen,
Manny or Phaulson
Ebbet
Wiese
Bitz
Volpatti
Elder
Ballard
MAG
Alberts
Other depth guys currently assigned to the Wolves

Feel free to disagree. The list is solely based on gut feel and I have not consulted any data on the contracts in play, NTC/NMC etc...etc.
I also saw a fairly ridiculous suggestion that we trade kesler for Eberle. I really like Eb's but thats a pretty damn steep price.

[Farhan Lalji]

GMMG: We could give you Schneider in a package of some sort.

Columbus GM: Lets talk.

Boom.

GMMG: Would you take Edler and Burr as well because we won't be able to afford them anymore.

In all honestly, would that be such a bad thing?

Nash-Kesler-Booth
Sedin-Sedin-Hansen
Higgins-Pahlsson-Kassian
####-Lapierre-####

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Ballard-Tanev
Salo-??? (Gragnani-Alberts-Rome-whoever).

-Luongo
-Lack

Is that such a bad thing?

[Waffle]

I still feel the same way about tonight’s game as I did before game 3. It doesn’t really matter who you start in net, its the guys up front that are going to win it or loose it.

Having said that, I agree with people who think that you make your goalie decision based on whether you are deciding on winning tonight or based on having an eye to the future.

It seems to me that if your major goal is to win tonight, then you start Schneider. The reasons for me are that Schneider is less likely to let in a bad demoralizing goal (or if he does he is more likely to be excused for it and the team is less likely to fold), that his puck handling is better which occasionally is a factor in games, and that his lateral movement is better and he is more likely to stop the outnumbered rushes LA is likely to get as the Canucks play deserate hockey to try to score. I don’t believe Luongo’s greater experience makes up for these factors. If LA was a trickier offensive team, I think Luongo’s experience might outweigh these factors.

If, as I have believed since the trade deadline, your main goal is the future and not this year, you start Luongo. Not starting Schneider will not decrease his trade value. If Luongo plays brilliantly, you have not lost anything. If he gives up a soft goal, and it ends in a blow out, I don’t think it decreases his trade value as every team has seen that before.

If the starting goalie is AV's call, it will be Lu.

All the talk about Lu demanding a trade if he doesn’t start because of his ego is pure speculation, and it might well be that he would be more determined to prove that he can win the SC here than the other way around, and it might make it harder to get rid of him, not easier.

I am surprized that no one has suggested trading both Lu and Schneider to try to get both a top 4 defenceman and a top 6 point producing playmker/net crasher. After all, McTavish said that he thinks that Lack is ready for the NHL, and there have been teams with average goal tending win the SC.

[Eddy Punch Clock]

GMMG: Hi Columbus - you still trying to trade Rick Nash.

Columbus GM: Yeppers.

GMMG: We could give you Luongo in a package of some sort.

Moot point.

GMMG: Lou, we're going with Schneids as our #1 next season. Would you waive your NTC to go to Columbus?

Lou: *click*