Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 center?

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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby clem » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:05 pm

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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby coco_canuck » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:09 pm

Tiger wrote:She tells me they do that operation about once a week in Bangkok...So am being a very very faithful guy..


Now that's what you call a deterrent.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby dbr » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:14 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
dbr wrote:Even before Kesler's "anomaly" season he was 11th in scoring among centers..

The fact is that we know what kind of player Ryan Kesler is and even if he never scores 40 goals in a season again he's still a first line calibre center when healthy.


I disagree, Kes is not in the class of the prototypical ultra-skilled elite play making centre. I always liken a first line centre as someone who can make a play out of nothing, sort of like Hank, and set up teamates at will. Even though, Hank doesn't score, he has the vision and hockey sense that all great first line centre's possess, ie Joe Thornton who ain't a massive goal score himself. Kesler tends to play by himself at times, with a shoot first mentality to be put in that category, he isn't known as a great playmaker. As a two-way centreman, there is nobody better in the business, first line calibre? No, but definitely the top of the league at 2nd line calibre.


So you think there are about five "first line calibre" centers in the league in a given year, then?

Kesler is easily a top 10-15 center in the league, you can join Farhan in thinking the Canucks need an Art Ross winner every year but the fact is there are 20 teams in this league with worse players centering the first line, top powerplay unit, etc than Ryan Kesler.

I would also like to say that Kesler's ability to make his teammates better pretty underrated here as well - of course he is no Joe Thornton or Henrik Sedin and he never will be, but his last non-anomaly season he had his own powerplay unit and he racked up 50 assists on the season. He may never make a saucer pass across the ice over the stick of a defender look as easy as Hank does but his hard work and speed and passing have opened up plenty of scoring opportunities for his teammates.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby donlever » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:19 pm

dbr wrote: He may never make a saucer pass across the ice over the stick of a defender look as easy as Hank does but his hard work and speed and passing have opened up plenty of scoring opportunities for his teammates.


Who the hell does?

Am I right?
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby coco_canuck » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:46 pm

dbr wrote:Kesler is easily a top 10-15 center in the league, you can join Farhan in thinking the Canucks need an Art Ross winner every year but the fact is there are 20 teams in this league with worse players centering the first line, top powerplay unit, etc than Ryan Kesler.


Of the top 10 centres in the league, how many are as good or better defensively?

2.

Datsyuk and Toews.

Don't pay much attention to the order, but these players are better than Kesler

Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
Datsyuk
Henrik
Toews

Rank those guys any way you want, but they're the top 6.

Young player with high ceilings:

Tavares
Seguin
Couture

That's 9, and then you have:

Spezza
E. Staal
Kopitar
Thornton
Getzlaf
Backes

You could make an argument, based on how Kesler can take over a playoff series both defensively and offensively, that he should be 7th.

Personally, I'd say he best first the 8-13 range.

Honestly, I don't get the concern.

Kesler has a many years in front of him, and based on the Twins dedication and ability, they'll be in the point-per-game range 1st line category for basically, as long as they want.

There's plenty of time to draft and develop the next in-line, and that's the best and most pragmatic way of going about it. Gillis will look to address it through the draft, free agent rookie pool and trades for prospects.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby donlever » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:50 pm

Kesler is 27, 28 at the start of next year.

Prime years for athletes are 27-33.

Kesler had 75 and 73 point seasons at 25 and 26.

Coming off a tough injury, off season surgery and while not being able to train any where near his normal standards Dude has him already peaked.

Hokay der...on 2ngihts shew....
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby coco_canuck » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:57 pm

donlever wrote:Kesler had 75 and 73 point seasons at 25 and 26.

Coming off a tough injury, off season surgery and while not being able to train any where near his normal standards Dude has him already peaked.

Hokay der...on 2ngihts shew....


I liken fans' relationships with their team's top players like having a wife or a girlfriend.

When you're with someone for a while, you see them at their best and worst.

Sometimes, another girl at her best, looks better to you than your girlfriend.

But after a few fun nights you realize how good your girlfriend actually is.

People who understand this when they're with someone great, will see the big picture.

Other who don't, end up getting VD.

This message brought to you by Rick Santorum.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:57 pm

dbr wrote:I would also like to say that Kesler's ability to make his teammates better pretty underrated here as well -


The Kuz (Ben Kuzma) and AV might not agree with you.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby donlever » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:37 pm

RoyalDude wrote: The Kuz (Ben Kuzma)....


:lol:

The fucking Kuz???

Dude, really?

I think we have isolated your problem.

(AV called Kesler an elite level player in his presser yesterday btw..)

The Kuz...fuck me....
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby Arachnid » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:54 pm

donlever wrote:
RoyalDude wrote: The Kuz (Ben Kuzma)....


:lol:

The fucking Kuz???

Dude, really?

I think we have isolated your problem.

(AV called Kesler an elite level player in his presser yesterday btw..)

The Kuz...fuck me....


I thought you were cock blocking him for his own good :evil:
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby donlever » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:01 pm

...nah.

He begged.

8-)
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:07 pm

donlever wrote:
RoyalDude wrote: The Kuz (Ben Kuzma)....


:lol:

The fucking Kuz???



I hate them all, Leves. The Kuz, Botch, RinTOOL, B-Mac, Taylor, Baller, Chappy, the whole fucking lot of 'em. A bunch of overpaid lazy bastards. Maybe I'm jealous, cause they have a great job, get paid to talk about sports on air. I mean fuck, how can you even call that a job.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby spooner » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:08 pm

coco_canuck wrote:I liken fans' relationships with their team's top players like having a wife or a girlfriend.

When you're with someone for a while, you see them at their best and worst.

Sometimes, another girl at her best, looks better to you than your girlfriend.

But after a few fun nights you realize how good your girlfriend actually is.

People who understand this when they're with someone great, will see the big picture.

Other who don't, end up getting VD.

This message brought to you by Rick Santorum.


Top notch analogy, coco.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby spooner » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:10 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
donlever wrote:
RoyalDude wrote: The Kuz (Ben Kuzma)....


:lol:

The fucking Kuz???



I hate them all, Leves. The Kuz, Botch, RinTOOL, B-Mac, Taylor, Baller, Chappy, the whole fucking lot of 'em. A bunch of overpaid lazy bastards. Maybe I'm jealous, cause they have a great job, get paid to talk about sports on air. I mean fuck, how can you even call that a job.


You should send in an application RD. The standards clearly aren't very high.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Postby Jovocop » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:24 pm

spooner wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
donlever wrote: :lol:

The fucking Kuz???



I hate them all, Leves. The Kuz, Botch, RinTOOL, B-Mac, Taylor, Baller, Chappy, the whole fucking lot of 'em. A bunch of overpaid lazy bastards. Maybe I'm jealous, cause they have a great job, get paid to talk about sports on air. I mean fuck, how can you even call that a job.


You should send in an application RD. The standards clearly aren't very high.


Seriously, how do you know RD is not one of the them? :lol:
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