Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 center?

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Farhan Lalji

Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:34 pm

Strangelove wrote:
GM: Some would say you are jinxing us by talking trade with the playoffs around the corner.
Well clearly - I am trolling Mr. Mike Gillis and the Acquillini group.

:::wiggle:::
:P

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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:35 pm

Why would the Islanders trade JT ?

It isn't going to happen.
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Farhan Lalji

Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:43 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Why would the Islanders trade JT ?

It isn't going to happen.
Maybe not Tavares per se, but any one else that fits the description of, "young elite center that is on the verge of being a dominant # 1 center.".

Like you said - it probably would never happen but I can't help but think how set our organization would be for many more years if we made a move like that.

And who knows? - depth is extremely important in today's game. If the Islanders got a pretty solid prospect center in Jordan Schroeder, along with A blue chip defenseman in Edler, and blue chip goalie in Schneider,those are some very significant assets.

Obviously - what the Islanders are doing right now isn't working for them. Perhaps they could be better served by trying a different approach.

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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by TDA Rum » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:47 pm

Well i for one hope that Mike Gillis isn't sill enough to trade 2 blue chip prospects, a good prospect and a first round pick for one player even if it is John Tavares....way too big of an overpayment....imho...

Farhan Lalji

Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:07 pm

TDA Rum wrote:Well i for one hope that Mike Gillis isn't sill enough to trade 2 blue chip prospects, a good prospect and a first round pick for one player even if it is John Tavares....way too big of an overpayment....imho...
Like I said, that was just a guesstimate on m part. If it would take less than that to get a guy like JT then awesome. 8-)

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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Hockey Widow » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:55 pm

Why not to Tampa for Stamkos? I mean I know he isn't a centre but still if we are going to dream why not get an annual 50 goal scorer.
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Farhan Lalji

Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:19 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Why not to Tampa for Stamkos? I mean I know he isn't a centre but still if we are going to dream why not get an annual 50 goal scorer.
Stamkos is already one of the top3 players in the game. Tampa wouldn't give him up. Stamkos is probably in Crosby/Malkin territory.

I figured that with a guy like Tavares, there would at least be some minor shot.

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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Waffle » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:50 am

Farhan, I was considering your consideration that Henrik Sedin is going to be a very good second line player when I was thinking about elite status. I think Henrik has been an elite center, and I hope he can continue that way for at least a couple of more years, but your position is based on him declining from elite status is it not?

I don’t disagree with your statement about a team having an overwhelming strength in the playoffs as a major factor in winning the cup. However, I am not so sure about the necessity of it for a team to be a contender, that may win when factors such as injuries etc come into play. If it was, surely we would see teams winning consecutive cups more often than we do.

In my post I was just giving my opinion in the SCFs as to what I felt the “overwhelming strength” of the teams was. Feel free to disagree, and sure teams can have both elite centers and defenceman. But on balance, it seems to me that the teams that have made the SCFs have had better strength on the defensive side more often than the offensive side.

I wonder if it is easier to trade for an elite defenceman compared to an elite centerman? Which type has changed teams more often over the last decade?

You think the overwhelming strength should be on offence. I disagree. I think great defence shuts down great offence more often than not. Most coaches think your offence starts with good defence. do they not?

I think if the Canucks can get an overwhelming strength, it should be on defence, if we can’t have both. Obviously it can’t be to the point where you have good goal tending, great defence, and not enough offensively and otherwise defensively to balance what your opponent brings. But for the Canucks, Salo is just about done, and Tanev will not be an equal replacement for a couple of years, if ever. Edler is inconsistent, Bieska and Hamhuis very good, and Edler and Bieska our only physical presences (which is important as it seems teams are generally getting bigger and stronger).

Shut down hockey may not be flashy, and like many others, I love “firewagon” hockey. But to remain contenders, I think the Canucks have to stay better than their opponents on the defensive side.

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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Tiger » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:40 am

Strange that not many think Kesler will be an elite center.. Up until this year his "numbers" have improved each year. I have to remember he is coming off an injury that required surgery this year and was not in top condition . One of my concerns is that he will not be as effective as he was in last years playoffs.. Last year he was the outstanding center in the playoffs and I believe that his and Hamhuis injuries in the SCF lost us the cup.. Its difficult to evaluate his ability as he is a "second" line center and has been saddled with 2nd tier players on the wing for years..

I am not sure what criteria you judge "Elite" centers.. Stevie Y's 2 way play? Datsyuk.. same . or just as an offensive center?
For my buck I would wait until next year to see if Kesler returns to form.. before entertaining trade deals..

Much more important is that #1 Dman that our present assets should get us in the offseason..
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Orcasfan » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:30 am

No, Farhan, Kessler will never be that elite #1 centre. Yes, he has the potential to increase his goal production - as we saw last year. But what he lacks is that quality that separates the elite centers from the rest - the capacity to make his line-mates better! Henrik certainly has that quality, and is definitely an elite center in this league. :D

If we had to choose between acquiring an elite defenseman and another elite center, based on where the team is now and for the near future, the D-man is definitely the one to go for. Of course, the problem is the cost. :wow: The other problem is the scarcity of established elite players - and the rarity that they become available. :(

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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Island Nucklehead » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:01 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Why not to Tampa for Stamkos? I mean I know he isn't a centre but still if we are going to dream why not get an annual 50 goal scorer.
I think with Crosby's injury history he might be available. I think we could get him for both Sedins, Edler, Schneider and sixteen first round picks. Then we could build a winner around him.

Farhan Lalji

Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:40 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Why not to Tampa for Stamkos? I mean I know he isn't a centre but still if we are going to dream why not get an annual 50 goal scorer.
I think with Crosby's injury history he might be available. I think we could get him for both Sedins, Edler, Schneider and sixteen first round picks. Then we could build a winner around him.
Wow, hilarious guy alert ladies and gentlemen.

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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Island Nucklehead » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:26 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
I think with Crosby's injury history he might be available. I think we could get him for both Sedins, Edler, Schneider and sixteen first round picks. Then we could build a winner around him.
Wow, hilarious guy alert ladies and gentlemen.
Well it's pretty much the kind of trash your proposing, Farhan. You ask if Kesler will ever be a #1 Centre, then you turn that into a ridiculous proposal to get John Tavares. If we're living in complete fantasy-ville, I think we should go for Sidney Crosby.

"How set our organization would be for many more years if we made a move like that" applies to every team in the NHL.

Man, we'd be a sick team if we had Sidney Crosby...

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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Cornuck » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:35 pm

I think you're getting it now, Island. ;)
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Farhan Lalji

Re: Farhan's $0.02: Can Ryan Kesler ever be an elite #1 cen

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:31 pm

Mondi wrote:I think its hilarious that you're proposing gutting a first place team for John Tavares.

First place teams simply don't trade multiple pieces of their core all at once. Particularly for guys who are trending at an Eric Staal (as opposed to a Stamkos) level. There is just no precedent for it. Nor is their precedent for putting a former 41 goal scorer on the third line (in the post lock-out era).

Personally, I'm going to save the fantasy GM stuff for after the playoffs.
I don't think it's gutting at all. Like I said - I think the twins will be very good players for many more years.......BUT.....given their age, will most likely not be as dominant as they were last year and the year before from here on out (maybe one more +100 point season). I can easily see them becoming 0.9 PPG players.......which is still really good, but just not the level that we're accustomed to.

Given that the Canucks are a skilled puck possession team, and given the fact that our team has relied heavily on the twins over the last 5-6 years, the Canucks as a team need to be a consisently putting pucks in the net if they are going to be as successful as they have the past two seasons. Although a slightly watered down version of the twins will be good enough to carry this team, why should we settle for anything less than what we've grown accustomed to? All I'm saying is this - instead of taking a risk on the Sedins' point production slightly declining (given their age), why not try and preserve that strength?

The Canucks' biggest strength as a team is in it's ability to completely dominate opponents with our offense and puck possession. We are not the mold of a St. Louis Blues or a Boston Bruins. We are similar to the Wings, and for us to succeed, we need to ensure that we can dominate.

Re - CORE:

Maybe we have different interpretations of what our "core" is, but this is how I see it as of right now:

-Sedin's
-Kesler
-Luongo or Schneider
-Bieksa
-Burrows

And again - I'm not even sure if Burrows belongs in that group. My point is this - if a good hockey deal is on the table, go for it.

My purpose for suggesting a John Tavares trade idea is not to be a dickhead (contrary to what Island Nucklehead and Canucks Corner forum moderator Cornuck seem to be directly and indirectly implying with their behavior in this thread). My purpose for suggesting am idea like this, is to simply find a solution for preserving our biggest strength for years to come.

All I

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