OK, So What I have been told

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

dbr
CC Legend
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by dbr »

How deep are Jeff Vinik's pockets (and how far into them is he willing to allow Stevie Y to dig)?

By the looks of it they are going to be handing out about $12m in raises in existing contracts next year, they have $47m in cap hit commitments but lots of players are paid over their cap hit (Lecavalier $2.2m, Stamkos $0.5m, Ohlund almost $2m, Malone $1m) with few players earning less than their cap hit (Hedman is $1m under and St. Louis is $0.125 under) and seven roster spots to fill.

Adding another $6.7m salary would be a pretty considerable expenditure by a team that can't necessarily move salary out and has other holes to fill.
Vpete
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by Vpete »

Forgot to add that you rock HW- game on me if you ever come to Winnipeg!
Brick Top: Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible cunt... me.
User avatar
coco_canuck
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 966
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:54 pm

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by coco_canuck »

tantalum wrote:
Well it means that AV will be much quicker to give Luongo the hook when he has a tough game than in the past. It also means that if Luongo is having a tough couple of games that they will be much more willing to go with Schneider. We saw a glimmer of that in the first round last year already.
Yeah, I'd be shocked if they don't turn to Schneids if things go side-ways. I'd go as far as to say we'll see Schneider in at least 1 game per series to make sure he's involved and sharp all while Luo gets a little rest and also stays motivated and focused.

Gillis has already said they plan to use their goalies differently this time around and take better advantage of having two great net minders.

That likely means one of two things, if not both:

1. Luongo will have a very short leash.
2. They will get Schneider starts even if Luo doesn't struggle.

Having two stud goalies is a major advantage, and it would make more sense to take full advantage of it come playoffs. If they play their goalie cards right, it'll be tough to beat the Canucks in a series.
tantalum wrote:
In the end I think Tampa would be happy taking on either of the goaltenders the canucks have.
Sure would.

When Yzerman began hoarding picks, guys like LeBrun and Bobby Mac were saying Stevie is preparing for an off-season move. Keith Aulie likely isn't the end all be all answer to their defence, but Yzerman added a D for the future, something his team needed more off, which means the hole in the crease is by far the team's greatest concern.

Based on what HW said about the Canucks only trading Luo if they can make a beneficial trade, I take that as Luo either bringing back a stud defenceman or cap space and movable assets i.e. picks and prospects that will help Gillis get that other D.

Between Higgins, Kassian, and maybe even Jensen, they 6th forward spot will be taken care off, so a player like Malone and his hefty contract makes little sense for the Canucks.

This brings me back to Tampa's bevy of picks and the fact that they won't move Hedman for Luongo, nor would they for Schneids for that matter. Stevie has the cap-space and the picks to get Luongo. I doubt the Kings trade a young goalie like Bernier for just picks and prospects, so it seems the most likely target to use draft picks to acquire would be Luongo.

If the Canucks get the cap-space and a few more high picks, they'll be well positioned to either package those draft choices with prospects/players to get the D-man they want, or they can go after someone in Free Agency with their new found cap-space.

But, if they can get someone like Gudbranson from Florida for Luongo, I'd happily bypass the picks, but I don't think the Panthers would be keen to move a potential cornerstone D-man.

Since the market for Luongo will be limited to 2-5 teams at most, the Tampa option seems like the most likely scenario.
Vpete
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by Vpete »

Great break down Coco.

I wonder if the Nordiques...er Phoenix would want a french Canadian star to anchor the pipes?
Brick Top: Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible cunt... me.
User avatar
mathonwy
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:53 pm

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by mathonwy »

What would be cool would be an insider portion to this hockey board and our insiders would be HW (of course) and whoever else we can get onboard.

Get some sponsorship going. Get some regular bloggers. Canuckscorner would absolutely blow up.

We already have the content. Meds always does an amazing job after each game. Whenever UW chimes in, its platinum and our indepth analysis of what's going on with the Nucks is pretty much the best on the interweb.

Would love to discuss Canucks with Botch, Mooney, Wagner, the Kurtenbloggers.. etc.

There really is nothing better than talking Canucks with other serious minded people.
User avatar
coco_canuck
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 966
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:54 pm

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by coco_canuck »

Vpete wrote: I wonder if the Nordiques...er Phoenix would want a french Canadian star to anchor the pipes?
That's a good thought.

I would think he'd happily go to Quebec, where he'd be revered alongside the novelty of having a team back.

But I suppose it'll come down to the wife and how much faith the Yotes have in Mike Smith.
User avatar
herb
CC Legend
Posts: 3014
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by herb »

coco_canuck wrote:Since the market for Luongo will be limited to 2-5 teams at most, the Tampa option seems like the most likely scenario.
I agree that the market for Luongo will be limited. A guess at some of the criteria is:
a) Almost certainly an eastern team
b) A team with a significant long-term goalie need (NYI, Toronto, Florida, Tampa Bay, Washington, Columbus, Edmonton, Colorado, maybe Phoenix, Ottawa, and New Jersey)
c) A team Luongo will accept a trade to (Florida, Tampa Bay, Washington, Toronto, New Jersey, maybe Ottawa)
d) A GM desperate to make a significant upgrade in net to fill a long standing need and/or save their job (Tampa Bay and Toronto)

I would say the most likely trading partners are Toronto and Tampa Bay. They are both eastern teams with huge holes in net. Both teams have the motivation, cash, cap space and tradable assets to make a deal happen. Yzerman and especially Burke need to figure out their goaltending situations for their long term job security.
User avatar
coco_canuck
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 966
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:54 pm

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by coco_canuck »

dbr wrote: Adding another $6.7m salary would be a pretty considerable expenditure by a team that can't necessarily move salary out and has other holes to fill.
Just took a look, you're right they have $47M committed, but are only spending about $3M more, $50M, in real salary.

Lecavalier 10/7.7
Stamkos 8/7.5
Malone 3/4.5
Ohlund 5/3.6

You're point about a small market team adding Luongo's salary is a good question, but Vinnick wasn't scared of spending close to the cap this season, and Stevie wouldn't have taken the job if he felt he wasn't given all the resources needed to win. WIth the young players they have, they can fill out their roster, with Luongo, and still be in the low $60M range in terms of real salary with a mid-size FA pick-up along the way.

The Lightning are only a goalie and more defensive depth away from being a top team in the East. Luongo could put them over the top in their division.
herb wrote: I would say the most likely trading partners are Toronto and Tampa Bay. They are both eastern teams with huge holes in net. Both teams have the motivation, cash, cap space and tradable assets to make a deal happen. Yzerman and especially Burke need to figure out their goaltending situations for their long term job security.
I see Toronto as a potentially good fit as well, the only question would be Luongo accepting a trade to an even bigger and crazier media market than Vancouver.
User avatar
Tciso
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 2104
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:44 am

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by Tciso »

coco_canuck wrote:Gillis has already said they plan to use their goalies differently this time around and take better advantage of having two great net minders.

That likely means one of two things, if not both:

1. Luongo will have a very short leash.
2. They will get Schneider starts even if Luo doesn't struggle.

Having two stud goalies is a major advantage, and it would make more sense to take full advantage of it come playoffs. If they play their goalie cards right, it'll be tough to beat the Canucks in a series.
I'd be thrilled if Gillis started Lou in game 3 of every series, regardless of how Lou is playing. Announce it to the world at the start of the playoffs, and stick to the plan. It takes the heat of Lou, and defuses the media. Then, ride who-ever is the hot goalie from then on.
The Cup is soooooo ours!!!!!!!
ESQ
MVP
MVP
Posts: 3137
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by ESQ »

coco_canuck wrote:
Yeah, I'd be shocked if they don't turn to Schneids if things go side-ways. I'd go as far as to say we'll see Schneider in at least 1 game per series to make sure he's involved and sharp all while Luo gets a little rest and also stays motivated and focused.
I agree with this as well. This season we've seen Luongo play better after sitting a game out where Schneider does well, whereas before he'd be out of his "rhythm" if he wasn't playing every game and that game after sitting was a little scary. Sitting for 1-2 games per series would ensure that one of our most critical positions is rested and fresh throughout the playoffs, and I agree that AV has been building towards this all year.
This brings me back to Tampa's bevy of picks and the fact that they won't move Hedman for Luongo, nor would they for Schneids for that matter. Stevie has the cap-space and the picks to get Luongo. I doubt the Kings trade a young goalie like Bernier for just picks and prospects, so it seems the most likely target to use draft picks to acquire would be Luongo.
I think Aquilini has to be prepared to take on some shitty contracts to get a good deal. I'd be very wary of Malone with his injury problems, but he's a possibility. I'd love to get Purcell, I think the guy is a star in the making after last year's playoffs. Hedman, unfortunately, will never be moved.

One contract that really hamstrings Tampa is Ohlund. His contract was signed at 32, so I believe he can retire without the cap hit staying on. It looks like he might not play again, but will give it a year or so of paying an injured player. Obviously no one would want him at a $3.6 million cap hit at age 39, but if does only have a couple years in him it would be worth taking on if you get a better package for Luongo.
User avatar
herb
CC Legend
Posts: 3014
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by herb »

coco_canuck wrote:I see Toronto as a potentially good fit as well, the only question would be Luongo accepting a trade to an even bigger and crazier media market than Vancouver.
Yeah, it's impossible to know what Luongo's thought process would be, but if it does come down to a situation where both the Canucks and Luongo decide to move on, Toronto would likely be a potential destination. New Jersey and Washington are also reasonable enough destinations from my perspective, but again I have no idea what Luongo's criteria would be.

The Quebec City angle is interesting, but they don't have a team yet and may not for a few years if ever.

I would be surprised if Tampa ownership quashed a deal to finally get that franchise type goaltender and all that additional playoff revenue over a couple million bucks. Logically, Tampa Bay is the most obvious trading partner for the seemingly inevitable Schneider/Luongo deal.
User avatar
coco_canuck
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 966
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:54 pm

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by coco_canuck »

Tciso wrote: I'd be thrilled if Gillis started Lou in game 3 of every series, regardless of how Lou is playing. Announce it to the world at the start of the playoffs, and stick to the plan. It takes the heat of Lou, and defuses the media. Then, ride who-ever is the hot goalie from then on.
Yeah, that's the way I'd approach it too. Give Schneids either game 3 or 4 of each series, which will be an away game in the 1st round at least, and then go from there.
ESQ wrote: One contract that really hamstrings Tampa is Ohlund. His contract was signed at 32, so I believe he can retire without the cap hit staying on. It looks like he might not play again, but will give it a year or so of paying an injured player. Obviously no one would want him at a $3.6 million cap hit at age 39, but if does only have a couple years in him it would be worth taking on if you get a better package for Luongo.
Yeah, Aquilini has no problem eating a contract, and maybe it'll be easier for him to take on someone like Ohlund as a depth guy with a big salary if they can move out Ballard as well, but I think MG wants to avoid bringing a significant salary back unless it's a 3rd line C or a D-man who can play a significant role.
Fred
CC Legend
Posts: 3434
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by Fred »

Just to add to the confusion in goal or the abundance of wealth we have at the goal tending position Did every one read this in the Vcr Sun

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/hock ... story.html

Most of the TB top players have NTC wqith the excepition of Ted Purcell who might fit in well if we dump Raymond
cheers
User avatar
KeyserSoze
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:39 am

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by KeyserSoze »

coco_canuck wrote:Gillis has already said they plan to use their goalies differently this time around and take better advantage of having two great net minders.

That likely means one of two things, if not both:

1. Luongo will have a very short leash.
2. They will get Schneider starts even if Luo doesn't struggle.

Having two stud goalies is a major advantage, and it would make more sense to take full advantage of it come playoffs. If they play their goalie cards right, it'll be tough to beat the Canucks in a series.
The playoffs (if you make it to the finals) is a 2-month GRIND.

Luongo would never play a full 2 months in the regular season, so why do it in the playoffs when the games are that much more intense and when you have two #1 goalies on hand?

I am completely in favour of treating the playoffs like the regular season, which would mean scheduling some starts for Schneids and playing the hot hand. Keep em fresh. We are one of only a few teams with this luxury, and I think it would be wise to take advantage of it.
dbr
CC Legend
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: OK, So What I have been told

Post by dbr »

coco_canuck wrote:
dbr wrote: Adding another $6.7m salary would be a pretty considerable expenditure by a team that can't necessarily move salary out and has other holes to fill.
Just took a look, you're right they have $47M committed, but are only spending about $3M more, $50M, in real salary.

Lecavalier 10/7.7
Stamkos 8/7.5
Malone 3/4.5
Ohlund 5/3.6

You're point about a small market team adding Luongo's salary is a good question, but Vinnick wasn't scared of spending close to the cap this season, and Stevie wouldn't have taken the job if he felt he wasn't given all the resources needed to win. WIth the young players they have, they can fill out their roster, with Luongo, and still be in the low $60M range in terms of real salary with a mid-size FA pick-up along the way.
That low $60m figure would give them about $3-7m to fill out seven roster spots if they got Luongo without giving any players up off the roster.

They are likely going to be stuck with a shoestring budget on defense this way, we're talking Brewer/Hedman/Ohlund/Bergeron/Aulie/Gilroy territory, and while they are definitely not going to end up with a Phoenix Coyotes like budget a contract like Luongo's does affect them more severely than the cap number might suggest.
The Lightning are only a goalie and more defensive depth away from being a top team in the East. Luongo could put them over the top in their division.
This I definitely agree with. That forward group, a defense with one dependable pairing and Luongo probably makes the Bolts a playoff lock and a contender for the division for the next five years.
Post Reply