CBA negotiations

[mathonwy]

Hot Stove was very very interesting.

Ron Maclean announced that CBA negotiations were to start after the season is finished

So, Donald Fehr is pushing for this citing the fact that he wants better representation from his NHLPA team and he doesn't want his players being distracted by the NHL playoffs.

Ron Maclean is all in favour of this but Mike Milbury pretty much pissed all over the idea saying the players joining Fehr's team doesn't know the issues and won't add anything.

Mike also mocked Ron saying that because he was in favour of this, Ron really didn't care whether or not the 2012/13 season got cancelled or not.

Obviously, Milbury is on Bettman's side. I also think that Milbury's (and the ownership team) is a little scared. Last time around, the NHLPA was a disorganized group and I'm assuming Paul Kelly was horrible (I really didn't follow what was going on very closely). This time around, they got Fehr to deal with and I think he's got them scared.

This is a brilliant and correct tactic. If you want your players to care what's going and be able to make informed decisions during the negotiations, you want them absolutely and fully engaged on the process.

Ron, in my amazement, is not a corporate stooge and wants the NHLPA to have proper representation. That' was very surprising to me.

I have concluded that Elliotte Friedman talks directly to a LOT of General Managers and those GM's are very frank with their answers to Elliotte. Elliotte then does a brilliant job to conceal his sources but relays a shitload of information to the public. The guy is going to have a very successful career with the NHL.

As soon as the SC is won, Fehr's camp is going to call an immediate and intensive NHLPA meeting to get everyone up to speed on the issues and the tactics so when they start the process, everyone is going to be engaged.

Yeah, this could be bloody.

[CFP!]

Decent breakdown.

Fehr is the key, something the PA hasn't really ever had.

[dbr]

Who knows what's going to happen.

You could interpret several run-ins between the league and the PA in the last year or two as posturing for the next CBA - long term (cap ceiling circumventing) contracts, the re-alignment and subsequent PA rejection, etc.

Were they? And if so does this mean Fehr's regime is going to be on the warpath?

You'd have to think the players (many of whom already lost out on a year of their limited earning potential in this league) have little appetite for further work stoppage, I'm not sure how the owners would be split - I have seen very little indicating just how much owners stand to lose from a lost season - but I would guess that the next CBA won't be too different from the current edition and the two sides would be reticent about letting this drag on for too long; both sides have generally done very well under the current agreement so that should hopefully be enough to keep things moving forward.

But of course the league has a captive market, some of us might talk a big game about turning (perhaps permanently) to junior or minor-pro hockey if the NHL shuts down again but we'll all be back one way or another.

[Island Nucklehead]

Players would be retarded to go into another lockout/player strike.

Notice the other leagues. Everyone makes money if you play. Take the best deal you can and don't piss around with a wasted season.

The owners got the hard-cap last time around, not sure how keen they are to break the unions' back this time. They'd be morons to make a big deal of it. The NHL is the little sister of professional sports. I love (and have family playing) professional lacrosse, but let's not turn hockey into that gong-show by our labour stoppages.

[mathonwy]

It is all dependent on what the prevailing sentiment is with regards to how the NHLPA perceived last time's CBA negotiations went. I found an article on TSN about this.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=386328
Fehr wasn't around for the last set of negotiations and he didn't sugarcoat what happened to the union the last time it sat across the table with the league.

"I don't think it's a matter of conjecture whether the players made significant concessions in the last agreement," he said. "It was an enormous amount of money in terms of the wealth transfer over the period of the agreement. The players understand what that was.

"They understand what happened."

http://www.silversevensens.com/2012/1/2 ... nt-want-to

Spezza says that Fehr's presence has been good for the players.

"As a union, I feel like we're as organized as we've ever been. [Fehr] speaks well, and he speaks in a manner that all the players understand what he's talking about, and he's not trying to hide anything from us. We know what's going into it."

--

So yeah. The players felt severely railroaded last time they were at the table. Are they willing to put aside those feelings to negotiate logically and without emotion? It depends on whether or not Gary will play ball.

Fehr's no idiot but I don't think he's a warmonger either. It's not going to be easy though.

I'm pretty sure Fehr is going to fight a battle on both sides. Fehr's going to have to convince a player contingency that wants blood to settle down and he's going to fight a battle with Bettman to negotiate fairly and in an unbiased fashion.

I hope we get lots of coverage of this. It's going to be a real popcorn munching event.

[Fred]

Ron, in my amazement, is not a corporate stooge and wants the NHLPA to have proper representation. That' was very surprising to me.

Ron McLean is left of Joe Stalin and spends his free time in the summer chained to trees....waiting patiently for the right husky lumberjack to come and save him

Frankly Ihope they do write the season off I neeed to recoupe some expenses this next year, I'll save on the season tickets, plus I don't need to rush back from the cottage, maybe spend the ticket cost on a nice holiday in South America been a while since I hit Rio ....suits me just fine...can you say Carnival


A pox on both their houses greedy bastards

[Blob Mckenzie]

But of course the league has a captive market, some of us might talk a big game about turning (perhaps permanently) to junior or minor-pro hockey if the NHL shuts down again but we'll all be back one way or another.

Speaking only for myself, I can say with honesty if these idiots decide to deep six another season I'm likely done with the NHL. The league has priced itself out of my household anyways if I want to go to games live. I have been to four games in the last two years and with an 8 year old and a 5 year old if I want to bring the whole family to a game and sit in decent seats it will run me 6 or 7 hundred bucks. That's way out of control and these retards can't figure out how to split up the pie ?

In the 80's and early 90's we had two pair of season tickets that our family spilt with another family . I shudder to think what it would cost for a pair of seasons tickets in todays day and age.

I have plenty of other things to do with my time dbr as I'm sure others do. I will not forgive the NHLPA and /or the owners if they tank another season. This is a niche sport which charges way too much at the gate for the often shitty product that we see. It isn't MLB, NBA, NFL, PGA, etc . Nobody down south gives a shit about the NHL and if these morons go out again the league could be in serious jeopardy moving forward.

[griz]

You're right Blob. It is out of control. You have a valid perspective in my opinion. For the same price as taking your family to the hockey game you could instead feed them for a couple of weeks.

[Blob Mckenzie]

You're right Blob. It is out of control. You have a valid perspective in my opinion. For the same price as taking your family to the hockey game you could instead feed them for a couple of weeks.

Imagine if I went to 6 or 7 games griz. Basically it would be the same price as the trip we all took to Playa del Carmen in December. Gee i wonder what I'd rather do. Attend 6 or 7 games drinking a couple lousy beer and having a 50- 50 chance of being entertained or going to a 5 star resort with friends and family and living like a king for a week in beautiful weather with tons of things to do.

I don't begrudge the local owners for charging it if people will pay, but at the same time a work stoppage could really fuck things up for the NHL. Vancouver is lucky in that the team usually plays an exciting style, they are a contender and the population is hockey mad and has a lot of people to draw from for home games. If this team takes a sharp dip in quality it may be tough to charge the prices that the Aquillinis are charging over the long haul.

[Benjo]

But of course the league has a captive market, some of us might talk a big game about turning (perhaps permanently) to junior or minor-pro hockey if the NHL shuts down again but we'll all be back one way or another.

Speaking only for myself, I can say with honesty if these idiots decide to deep six another season I'm likely done with the NHL..

Total agreement here. The league is going through an identity crisis right now, trapped between the old school "let them play" mentality and the new school where every stick infraction is a penalty. It is driving me insane to watch the rules shift from game to game, even period to period. One more season lost will be one more fan lost, I'll go watch the Royals instead.

[Potatoe1]

But of course the league has a captive market, some of us might talk a big game about turning (perhaps permanently) to junior or minor-pro hockey if the NHL shuts down again but we'll all be back one way or another.

Speaking only for myself, I can say with honesty if these idiots decide to deep six another season I'm likely done with the NHL. The league has priced itself out of my household anyways if I want to go to games live. I have been to four games in the last two years and with an 8 year old and a 5 year old if I want to bring the whole family to a game and sit in decent seats it will run me 6 or 7 hundred bucks. That's way out of control and these retards can't figure out how to split up the pie ?

In the 80's and early 90's we had two pair of season tickets that our family spilt with another family . I shudder to think what it would cost for a pair of seasons tickets in todays day and age.

I have plenty of other things to do with my time dbr as I'm sure others do. I will not forgive the NHLPA and /or the owners if they tank another season. This is a niche sport which charges way too much at the gate for the often shitty product that we see. It isn't MLB, NBA, NFL, PGA, etc . Nobody down south gives a shit about the NHL and if these morons go out again the league could be in serious jeopardy moving forward.

It probably took me about 2 years after the lock out before I gave a shit again.

Anyway I doubt we see much of a fight from the players this time around. The bulk of the PA likely has 4 to 6 years left in their careers so torching one of those to get a bit more in the others is a huge waste.

They may put on a good show and sit the pre season, but there is no way they get anywhere close to canceling a season.

[Strangelove]

It probably took me about 2 years after the lock out before I gave a shit again.

Anyway I doubt we see much of a fight from the players this time around. The bulk of the PA likely has 4 to 6 years left in their careers so torching one of those to get a bit more in the others is a huge waste.

They may put on a good show and sit the pre season, but there is no way they get anywhere close to canceling a season.

Makes total sense Potski, but unfortunately logic often gives way to stubborness/emotion in these cases.

If they shut it down though bring down the prices and bring on the scabs, I'm almost in game shape!

[dbr]

Speaking only for myself, I can say with honesty if these idiots decide to deep six another season I'm likely done with the NHL. The league has priced itself out of my household anyways if I want to go to games live. I have been to four games in the last two years and with an 8 year old and a 5 year old if I want to bring the whole family to a game and sit in decent seats it will run me 6 or 7 hundred bucks. That's way out of control and these retards can't figure out how to split up the pie ?

In the 80's and early 90's we had two pair of season tickets that our family spilt with another family . I shudder to think what it would cost for a pair of seasons tickets in todays day and age.

I have plenty of other things to do with my time dbr as I'm sure others do. I will not forgive the NHLPA and /or the owners if they tank another season. This is a niche sport which charges way too much at the gate for the often shitty product that we see. It isn't MLB, NBA, NFL, PGA, etc . Nobody down south gives a shit about the NHL and if these morons go out again the league could be in serious jeopardy moving forward.

Oh I totally agree. And the league (and players) will certainly take a bath if they waste a season squabbling again, look how long it took salaries (which are now directly tied to revenue) to get back to where they were before the cap; we're only a couple seasons into the $60m roster era now.

As a ticket buyer I might be done with the game if they go through this again but I'd give it say half a season before I am looking at the scores online now and then, maybe three quarters before I start tuning into the odd game. Hell if they are in the playoffs in this scenario I'd probably watch.

I expect most are like me, we've all got stuff to do but we also love hockey and prefer to see it played at the highest level - in the long term the urge to see that probably outweighs the urge to punish the bastards responsible for keeping it from us.

[donlever]

I've almost (as some of you are aware from years past) had it with the NHL as things currently stand. The only thing that keeps me interested at this point is the fact that the team I have followed forever and a day has a chance to win the Cup. (And at that it took me until mid season to summon up a modicum of interest in the current year).

If there is one regular season game missed due to a lockout I am officially done.

As is my financial investment in both the local team and the league.

[mathonwy]

Hmm..

I think the Canucks losing the SC last season coloured my glasses somewhat differently than the rest of you.

If there was a work stoppage, I really wouldn't care. I'd follow what was going on and then when hockey was back on, I'd watch it again to see how Kassian continues to develop, to see how Hodgson is doing in Buffalo, to see how Burke continues (or not) to flounder as GM, to see how Ginger does on his new team and to see if Yakupov makes the team.

I wouldn't feel betrayed or fed up or nothing by the work stoppage and I'd probably take up MLS to feed my sports addiction.

Going all in emotionally last year and having what happened happened has basically numbed me in a way. Also, I see CBA negotiations as just part of sports and therefore will happen forever whether we like it or not. So if this is so, why even feel anything about it.