Do we trade Schneider after the season?

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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:16 pm

All depending on the success/failure of the Canucks in Post Season. If we pull a Philadelphia Flyer move and completely bomb like the Flyers did in the most recent playoffs after going all the way to the Finals the previous Post Season to that against the Blackhawks and losing, then heads are going to roll in a similar fashion of what we saw happen in Philly with regards to Richards and Carter. If the Canucks completely bomb, I expect one of two things to happen, Gillis will deflect blame on to the coaching saving him the pain of having to re-invent the Vancouver Canuck line-up, or he will simply choose to hack and slash some of the core outta here, in a sorta rebuild message to the team. I would expect one of those names being Luongo instead of Schneider which would be the shock to the system much like Richards and Carter getting ousted in Philly that Gillis may have to do. Also, keep your eyes peeled on Kesler. If he don't wake from his doldrums, continually boring us with his cross the blue line wrister that ain't having much luck bulging the twine like the previous 41 goal season that he had, and he stinks in the playoffs. I would not be surprised if Kes is ousted along with Luongo.
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby TDA Rum » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:18 pm

Eddie Lack is the real deal and ready for prime time....and Joe Cannata will be moving into the Wolves maybe as soon as this
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby Strangelove » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:23 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Also, keep your eyes peeled on Kesler. If he don't wake from his doldrums, continually boring us with his cross the blue line wrister that ain't having much luck bulging the twine like the previous 41 goal season that he had, and he stinks in the playoffs. I would not be surprised if Kes is ousted along with Luongo.


Oh crap I had a feeling I shouldn't have told dude that Kess is a Jew! :lol:
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby porp » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:32 pm

Now what are the chances that a low-salary team with no assets to entice MG for Schneider goes and offers a not-so-ridiculous offer sheet on him? Offer $4.8M+ and the Canucks can't/shouldn't match (unless they can get rid of Luo's contract within 7 days) and it only costs the other team a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd - less than what Schneider should be able to trade for, which could consist of draft pick(s) and at least one good proven NHLer or a couple of decent prospects.

It's a tough decision, but HW makes a great point - there are too many variables. As soon as the post-season ends for the Canucks, one way or another, Gillis needs to either make a deal pronto or re-sign Schneider.

This is the last year on his contract, right? (Sorry if I'm dumb and mistaken that he's offer sheet eligible once this 2011-12 season ends.)
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby ESQ » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:50 pm

I believe Canucks still have arbitration rights on Schneider, so he can't be offersheeted (offered a sheet?)

But I hate to say it Porp, but a 1st, 2nd and 3rd is a decent return for Schneider, especially coming from a "low cap" team with high picks.
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby coco_canuck » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:31 pm

rockalt wrote:Unfortunately for Canucks fans, Luongo just doesn't seem to be the same goaltender ever since that epic meltdown. Yes he has been positively dominant at times but there is always that uneasy feeling that he might just implode.


I hear this said quite a bit, but other than the apprehension, since then Luongo has won an Olympic gold medal and has gone to game 7 of the Stanley Cup.

His meltdowns have been extraordinary, and he does have glaring weaknesses, but he's won more big games than he's lost.

rockalt wrote:Moving forward, I think we can all agree it is going to be a very telling playoffs and summer for this organization.


I think it will be for the goaltenders, but not really with the rest of the roster, or even the coaching staff for that matter.

AV will be back for next season, pretty much regardless of what happens in the playoffs, save maybe a disastrous first round exit, and even then I wouldn't be surprised to see AV stay on.

The time to make a coaching change would be next year if it's clear something is amiss.

Given the consistently strong regular season record, relatively strong playoff record, and the consistent effort and performance of the team, I don't see Gillis being quick to make a change.

I think Gillis understands how difficult it is to find a good coach who regularly gets the best out of his players. People really underestimate how difficult it is to find the right coach for a team.

As for the roster, there may be some trimming with role players, but the main guys won't be moving.
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby Meds » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:09 am

As far as the rest of the roster is concerned, I think there is some huge pressure on both Kesler and the Sedin's. As much, if not more, as is on Luongo. There were three games in the SFC where even if Luongo had closed the door after 1 goal, the Canucks still would have lost.....one of those games was game 7. That's not to say that Lou didn't completely unravel in Beantown, but all the same, the pressure has to be the same. Pressure on Vigneault too. I'm pretty sure that anything short of a Conference Finals appearance will mean his walking papers.
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby Fred » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:28 am

Meds wrote:As far as the rest of the roster is concerned, I think there is some huge pressure on both Kesler and the Sedin's. As much, if not more, as is on Luongo. There were three games in the SFC where even if Luongo had closed the door after 1 goal, the Canucks still would have lost.....one of those games was game 7. That's not to say that Lou didn't completely unravel in Beantown, but all the same, the pressure has to be the same. Pressure on Vigneault too. I'm pretty sure that anything short of a Conference Finals appearance will mean his walking papers.



Good point the pressure on AV and MG too. If Loungo starts to mess up will AV/MG yank him immediately, they can't stand by watching him screw up. I'm pretty sure this is going to be a point of discussion before they start the play-offs...it won't be a spur of the moment decision during a game
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby coco_canuck » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:54 am

Meds wrote:As far as the rest of the roster is concerned, I think there is some huge pressure on both Kesler and the Sedin's. As much, if not more, as is on Luongo. There were three games in the SFC where even if Luongo had closed the door after 1 goal, the Canucks still would have lost.....one of those games was game 7. That's not to say that Lou didn't completely unravel in Beantown, but all the same, the pressure has to be the same. Pressure on Vigneault too. I'm pretty sure that anything short of a Conference Finals appearance will mean his walking papers.


I'm assuming you mean Sedin and Kesler may be on the block if the team flames out.

If management was taking wait and see approach with the Sedins and Kesler, then trading Hodgson doesn't make as much sense.

First of all, you never get equal current value when you move top players, so you're looking at prospects or young players looking to establish themselves, which would basically set the team into a re-build.

The Kassian deal should tell you everything you need to know about their plans for the core of this team. Gillis is building around the team's nucleus for the present and the next 4-6 years.

That's not to say things might not change in the future, but they're definitely not changing drastically this summer.

Again, I think people underestimate the team we currently have and how difficult it is to have such a balanced, skilled team with strong leadership and great camaraderie in the locker-room, which are areas Gillis has worked extensively to cultivate.

The Detroit model is about high-level consistency and longevity, and the Canucks have made no bones about their desire to follow the Red Wings blue-print.

Nothing has happened so far for them to deviate from that plan, and one poor playoff isn't going to change that.

Now these are all hypotheticals and it's difficult to predict what will happen, but it's naive to think the Twins or Kesler may be on the block if the team falters.

Similarly, AV isn't getting fired unless something disastrous happens. The time to make that change would be during next season if things aren't working.
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby wienerdog » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:30 am

How did a "Luongo or Schneider" thread turn into a "Twins and Kes are on the chopping block" debate? :eh:
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby dhabums » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:55 am

coco_canuck wrote:AV will be back for next season, pretty much regardless of what happens in the playoffs, save maybe a disastrous first round exit, and even then I wouldn't be surprised to see AV stay on.


If we had lost to Chicago, safe to say AV was a goner?
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby coco_canuck » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:17 am

dhabums wrote:If we had lost to Chicago, safe to say AV was a goner?


I think it was the overall assumption that would happen since they held a 3-0 lead and were coming off their best regular season in franchise history.

But going on to the Cup final has likely bought AV more rope.
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby rockalt » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:54 am

coco_canuck wrote:
rockalt wrote:Unfortunately for Canucks fans, Luongo just doesn't seem to be the same goaltender ever since that epic meltdown. Yes he has been positively dominant at times but there is always that uneasy feeling that he might just implode.


I hear this said quite a bit, but other than the apprehension, since then Luongo has won an Olympic gold medal and has gone to game 7 of the Stanley Cup.

His meltdowns have been extraordinary, and he does have glaring weaknesses, but he's won more big games than he's lost.


You're right. I think looking at Luongo's performance as a whole in the 2011 playoffs he was definitely above average. He was left hung out to dry in games 3, 4, and 5 in the Chicago series. As much as people would like to suggest he imploded after being up 3-0, he was actually quite solid throughout that series. He was fabulous in the first period of game 4 to keep the score tied at 1 but eventually the copious chances for Chicago started to pay off. If you look at the quality of chances and perfect shots in game 5, then you have to conclude that Luongo was far from the reason the Canucks blew the 3-0 lead. He was fantastic in game 7. His detractors will point to the last minute goal but really that was more of a fantastic/heroic effort by Toews than a softie by Luongo. Much the same, he was solid throughout the Olympics, making the saves when they were needed. He had no chance on Parise's equalizer. He can only be blamed for not making the glove save earlier on in the play which led to the tying goal but the goal itself was nice.

Still his performances in Boston during the finals leave much to be desired. I was shocked that he laid an egg on 3 occasions. The soft opening goal he surrendered in game 6 was the turning point as far as I'm concerned. The Canucks actually looked poised at the onset of game 6 to end it but were completely deflated by that goal (as well as Raymond's injury).

coco_canuck wrote:
rockalt wrote:Moving forward, I think we can all agree it is going to be a very telling playoffs and summer for this organization.


I think it will be for the goaltenders, but not really with the rest of the roster, or even the coaching staff for that matter.

AV will be back for next season, pretty much regardless of what happens in the playoffs, save maybe a disastrous first round exit, and even then I wouldn't be surprised to see AV stay on.

As for the roster, there may be some trimming with role players, but the main guys won't be moving.


I suppose I should have clarified that the playoffs will be telling for the organization specifically because it will answer many questions about the team's goaltending for the next 5 to 10 years. I can't see the team keeping the status quo beyond this season. Schneider simply can't wait any longer to start his career as a starter. My money is still on him being traded but if Luongo collapses in the playoffs that completely changes the picture.

As for the rest of the team, I am in agreement that there won't be significant changes. I could see the Canucks targeting a defenseman to replace Salo with the Schneider trade but it ultimately depends on the market. Of course if the Canucks fall in the first round I think AV loses his job and Gillis makes some minor tweaks to the roster in addition to goalie trade.
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby coco_canuck » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:07 am

rockalt wrote:Still his performances in Boston during the finals leave much to be desired. I was shocked that he laid an egg on 3 occasions. The soft opening goal he surrendered in game 6 was the turning point as far as I'm concerned. The Canucks actually looked poised at the onset of game 6 to end it but were completely deflated by that goal (as well as Raymond's injury).


Henrik missing the bouncing puck early in the 1st period with the entire side of the net open still haunts me. The team that scored first one every game in that series, and taking an early lead on a Boston team that was down 3-2 may have changed everything.

Alas, Lui gives up a softie and it's all over.

I'm not saying Luo doesn't deserve blame for his poor performances, nor am I saying he won't have anymore in the future, but for all the meltdowns he's had, he's won more to make up for it and no specific poor game has ever prevented him from furthering his playoff success.

rockalt wrote:As for the rest of the team, I am in agreement that there won't be significant changes. I could see the Canucks targeting a defenseman to replace Salo with the Schneider trade but it ultimately depends on the market. Of course if the Canucks fall in the first round I think AV loses his job and Gillis makes some minor tweaks to the roster in addition to goalie trade.


The right side defenceman to play with Edler will be a big question to answer. Will Tanev be ready for the role? Is there a chance Gragnani could play there?

I think Gillis would love to add significant player in that position, but if Schneids can't yield that return, the options may be limited with a thin market and hungry buyers.
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Re: Do we trade Schneider after the season?

Postby Meds » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:26 am

coco_canuck wrote:I'm assuming you mean Sedin and Kesler may be on the block if the team flames out.


No, I don't. I just mean that their names will be the subject of much debate and their leash will be very short next year if they completely disappear when the game is on the line.

coco_canuck wrote:If management was taking wait and see approach with the Sedins and Kesler, then trading Hodgson doesn't make as much sense.

First of all, you never get equal current value when you move top players, so you're looking at prospects or young players looking to establish themselves, which would basically set the team into a re-build.


Right on both counts. I don't think that Gillis is the type of guy to hedge his bets in regards to the Sedin's. No GM would, they are coming off back-to-back Art Ross wins and Hart win/nomination. They should get it done, however, their play of late is somewhat lacklustre and they are either holding back and saving something for the playoffs, or they are tapped out and need to be rested. Hoping for the former, but betting on the latter right now. Regardless, this year the Sedin's need to prove that they can either break through the pressure and produce points against defensive systems that have prepped themselves specifically to shutdown the twins, or they need to show that they can evolve their game and play something other than "sit and wait on the wall" hockey.

coco_canuck wrote:The Kassian deal should tell you everything you need to know about their plans for the core of this team. Gillis is building around the team's nucleus for the present and the next 4-6 years.

That's not to say things might not change in the future, but they're definitely not changing drastically this summer.


What I find odd is that he brought in a player that would have perfectly complimented Hodgson's skill set.....but he gave up Hodgson to do it. It does make me more curious as to how Schroeder, who is supposed to be a speedy playmaker, is developing with the Wolves.

coco_canuck wrote:Again, I think people underestimate the team we currently have and how difficult it is to have such a balanced, skilled team with strong leadership and great camaraderie in the locker-room, which are areas Gillis has worked extensively to cultivate.

The Detroit model is about high-level consistency and longevity, and the Canucks have made no bones about their desire to follow the Red Wings blue-print.


With the depth that Gillis has put together through 4 lines, this is finally the first team we have seen in Vancouver that matches that model. In previous years we have seen three lines that fit, but the fourth line was always woefully inadequate.

coco_canuck wrote:Similarly, AV isn't getting fired unless something disastrous happens. The time to make that change would be during next season if things aren't working.


Vigneault is as much to blame for the times when the team is shutdown as the player's themselves are. A coach that let's his team skate into a brickwall over and over and over without making an adjustment, other than to juggle lines, needs to be reminded what it means to be a coach. When the Sedin's are standing still on the PP, not moving their feet, waiting for something to "just happen", not going to the net, generating absolutely nothing, and in general just wasting PP time, the second unit needs to come out over the boards alot sooner than 1:15 into the man-advantage. Also, a coach who doesn't recognize when a guy like Rome needs to sit out for a while needs to be be picked up by the neck and given a good shaking. I was encouraged to hear that Raymond has at least been moved back to the 4th line.
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