Canucks get Zack Kassian

[coco_canuck]

I don't think Regier "knows" anything more than MG, I think that he simply addressed the needs of the team. We have young tough wingers in the AHL ready to take Kassian's spot, without the drama that surrounded him. He decided to show up when he felt like it, at least for us.

What drama exactly?

The comments he made post-game to a reporter in the AHL that were a bit off base?

I've watched the Sabres play quite a bit this season, and while you're right, Kassian had some invincible nights for the Sabres, many of those silent nights were in the midst of some serious team struggles I don't need to explain to you.

From my perspective, I see Kassian as a first year pro who did very well offensively in the AHL in 30 games, far better than Cody did in Manitoba last year.

Most rookies will have many ups and downs and it's a matter of finding consistency, especially for big forwards who are expected to play a power game.

From watching Kassian, reading up on him and listening to his comments, he seems like player who wants to be more than just a fighter, and wants to establish himself as future top 6 power forward who puts up a lot of points. It seems he's more worried about becoming a player than just being there to provide toughness and energy.

Coming to a team like Vancouver, where the coaches clearly define what a player's role should be and what they need to do to remain in that role, I see Kassian being more consistent with his physical game. But it would be naive to expect him to not have some ups and downs the rest of the way with a few quiet nights here and there.

That would be on-par with how young players develop, and much of the same, sans the physical aspect, can be said about Cody.

[nyintensity]

No, the drama I'm talking about is before he was even in the AHL; the Sabres organization has a big doghouse, and players that find themselves in it early are usually left there early and often. It's a case of a short temper and a bad attitude, and I think once the Sabres got the hint of that, they had him branded and all but written off, which I why I feel like a change of scenery was a really good thing for him.

[BladesofSteel]

Two years ago RD was going off on how Hodgson wouldn't amount to anything because he's injury prone and couldn't skate, all while trumping the next Paul Coffey in suggesting Kevin (still hasn't seen a lick of NHL action) Connauton would be the next Calder winner.

Move on, Blades. You've fallen behind.

Point being, you had no cred then, and no one takes you serious now.

[Sticky]

No, the drama I'm talking about is before he was even in the AHL; the Sabres organization has a big doghouse, and players that find themselves in it early are usually left there early and often. It's a case of a short temper and a bad attitude, and I think once the Sabres got the hint of that, they had him branded and all but written off, which I why I feel like a change of scenery was a really good thing for him.

Now I'm interested... I didn't read Coco's question as rhetoric... What was the drama that you reference?

[dhabums]

What drama exactly?

His dad died of a rare heart condition when he was young and ZK gets tested annually. That is far more concerning than him being an ahole in junior.

I'd hate to be held to a standard that I set at 17 or 18.

[Potatoe1]

Kassian was deemed somewhat expendable because they're also high on Marcus Foligno who plays a similar game, but he isn't as skilled as Kassian. If you look at their centres, their only good one is Derek Roy, and moving forward, you can't win fuck-all if you don't have at least 2 solid pivots in your top 6.

This is more or less the whole nutshell from the Sabers side.

Tough wingers are a nice luxury but the most important skaters on the team are your first and second line centers. They see Cody as a top6 center for the foreseeable future and kassian was the price they had to pay.

A totally logical move for them.

Of course as we move on it seems Sabers fans are trying to make this about other things like Zack's work ethic and attitude, which much like the nonsense about Codys agent, is just fluff.

This was a hockey trade where 2 clubs swapped high end prospects who better fit their needs.

[nyintensity]

Of course as we move on it seems Sabers fans are trying to make this about other things like Zack's work ethic and attitude, which much like the nonsense about Codys agent, is just fluff.

I suppose the only reason I bring them up is because they're the only negative things I can think of about him. By and large, Sabres fans were high on him.

[BladesofSteel]

Kassian was deemed somewhat expendable because they're also high on Marcus Foligno who plays a similar game, but he isn't as skilled as Kassian. If you look at their centres, their only good one is Derek Roy, and moving forward, you can't win fuck-all if you don't have at least 2 solid pivots in your top 6.

This is more or less the whole nutshell from the Sabers side.

Tough wingers are a nice luxury but the most important skaters on the team are your first and second line centers. They see Cody as a top6 center for the foreseeable future and kassian was the price they had to pay.

A totally logical move for them.

Of course as we move on it seems Sabers fans are trying to make this about other things like Zack's work ethic and attitude, which much like the nonsense about Codys agent, is just fluff.

This was a hockey trade where 2 clubs swapped high end prospects who better fit their needs.

...and nothing more than that. I couldn't care less about the horseshit the media is conjuring up about Cody's side requesting a trade etc. FFS, both teams addressed a need and dealt from their strength. Just because these types of deals are so few and far between these days, does not mean there must be so much more behind the scenes that "the fans need to be informed of."

I applaud both GM's for having the balls to get this deal done.

[Potatoe1]

Most rookies will have many ups and downs and it's a matter of finding consistency, especially for big forwards who are expected to play a power game.

Almost all forwards of Kassians size and style are accused of not working hard enough, especially when they are just starting out.

My belief is that for the most part it doesn't have a lot to do with effort but is more tied to fatigue.

20 year olds just cant play their best through 82 games, they don't have the conditioning or the stamina and I suspect this is even more the case with guys the size of Kassian.

People love to claim it's a character issue but it's far more likely to be a physical thing.

[coco_canuck]

No, the drama I'm talking about is before he was even in the AHL; the Sabres organization has a big doghouse, and players that find themselves in it early are usually left there early and often. It's a case of a short temper and a bad attitude, and I think once the Sabres got the hint of that, they had him branded and all but written off, which I why I feel like a change of scenery was a really good thing for him.

Thanks, that's interesting.

Kassian's transgressions on the ice were well documented. The bar fight was a high-profile story, but really, who hasn't been in a bar fight, or at least close to getting in a bar fight when they were/are that age?

Not to say Kassian doesn't have to work on his maturity. You can't be doing those things when you're a top NHL prospect, you have to be smarter. Obviously he's had challenges to overcome but the right type of support and structure around him can help him grow.

I've heard Sabres fans bemoan the team's relationship with certain players. When a team has a bad season everything is magnified and often exaggerated, but players not knowing where they stand on the team seems to have been an issue, and player/coach communication has been questioned.

Now I don't know how accurate that is, but it's seems somewhat consistent with what you're saying.

I think there's a good chance Kassian will develop nicely in Vancouver. Gillis often goes after guys with potential who have struggled elsewhere, been misused, etc. He's often spoken of his confidence in understanding player needs and providing them every possible tool and support to develop. With a young and valuable asset like Kassian, they'll be working very hard with him.

As for Hodgson, he'll likely excel in Buffalo. Pegula seems like a proactive owner, some say micromanager, that is investing heavily in reshaping the team's image and how they treat players, so I don't see how they would sour on Cody and not provide him with what he needs as long as he isn't in the doghouse. However, regardless of what's said of Cody and how I may feel about his/agent/dad, Hodgson is a smart player who is completely dedicated to hockey. I'm not sure if he has explosiveness, quickness, size and speed to be a top-flight centre, but he should be a good point producer who excels on the PP.

[Potatoe1]

Of course as we move on it seems Sabers fans are trying to make this about other things like Zack's work ethic and attitude, which much like the nonsense about Codys agent, is just fluff.

I suppose the only reason I bring them up is because they're the only negative things I can think of about him. By and large, Sabres fans were high on him.

That's because he's an excellent prospect much like Hodgson.

You guys needed a good top6 center and we needed more toughness in our top9.

Right now the deal looks like a big win for both teams, if there is to be a winner or a loser declared in this trade is will depend entirely on the development that will take place over the next 2-4 years.

Right now Hodgson looks like a guy who will be a 30 goal 60 point offensive center, while Kassian looks like a big physical, 20 goal 50 point winger.

What's better? Depends on your team....

Would you rather have Ryan Clowe or Joe Pavelski? I know who the Canucks would take but I'm sure just as many teams would take Pavelski.

[nyintensity]

...Hodgson is a smart player who is completely dedicated to hockey. I'm not sure if he has explosiveness, quickness, size and speed to be a top-flight centre, but he should be a good point producer who excels on the PP.

Still waiting for him to get that gorilla of a first goal (or even point) as a Sabre off his back, lol.

[Potatoe1]

Kassian's transgressions on the ice were well documented. The bar fight was a high-profile story, but really, who hasn't been in a bar fight, or at least close to getting in a bar fight when they were/are that age?

Keven Bieksa apparently earned a contract from Brian Burke because of a bar fight between him and Fedor Fedorov.

That might be more myth then reality though.

At the same time though, "Juice" has brought more toughness and swagger to our line up then virtually any other player over the past 5 or 6 years.

Personally I think the type of guys who bring toughness to an NHL line up are the same type of people who occasionally have some sort of physical confrontation off the ice.

If the mean streak isn't innate it starts to become obvious fairly quickly.

I bet Dale Weise has never been in a bar fight (smile).

[coco_canuck]

This was a hockey trade where 2 clubs swapped high end prospects who better fit their needs.

Yup.

Regardless of the future of Cody with the Canucks, there was no pressing need or pressure to move him. The talk is telling in certain respects, but it wasn't the direct cause of the trade, but the story has certainly been framed that way.

20 year olds just cant play their best through 82 games, they don't have the conditioning or the stamina and I suspect this is even more the case with guys the size of Kassian.

Yeah, and I completely expect to see a few average to poor games from Kassian before the season is over.

AV is only playing him 10-12 minutes, and is keeping his shifts short. He's probably already on a new workout regime and diet knowing MG.

So far Kassian has been playing on a lot adrenaline playing his first game with Van, first home game, and his old-team in succession. There's bound to be drop off.

Like all young players, he has to learn how to use his energy and how to approach certain situations.

[coco_canuck]

If the mean streak isn't innate it starts to become obvious fairly quickly.

Can't be a fake tough guy in the NHL.

Remember Oreskovich came to his first camp, saying all the rights things about how he's going to protect teammates, and how he wanted to fight regularly?

Well, he gets beat-up a couple of times and that was that.