Canucks get Zack Kassian

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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:20 pm

Nuckertuzzi wrote:

This is THE most ballsy move I have ever seen a Canuck GM make, maybe any GM. THE top team of the league three-quarters of the season in decides to make a major philosophical move. Talk about rolling the dice.


Good post but interestingly I don't think this deal represents a philosophical move, in fact I think it represents a move back to the philosophy the team has had for the past few years.

Cody's emergence this year combined with his inability to transition to the wing kind of forced the team to run with the 3 scoring line set up that we have seen most of the year.

I think the Canucks as an organization believe that the 3rd and 4th lines should be gritty checking lines that are defensively sound. This trade pretty much cements that.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby dangler » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:39 pm

Jovocop wrote:A pretty good article about the trade yesterday.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/02/27/how-to-get-full-value-when-trading-a-player/


another good read by Cam Charron
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Arachnid » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:53 pm

Interesting that everyone wants to throw the Kassian kid under the Lucic bus and no one wants to go down the Bertuzzi comparison route..... 8-)
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby rats19 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:00 pm

Begs to differ 8 legged one. There have been 3-4 references to bert.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby coco_canuck » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:04 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:Not sure about the trade but I do no think Gillis has a big ole set of brass ones.


Huge ones.

I love the potential of the deal, but the downside is terrifying.

Nuckertuzzi, our old A.K.A. friend with some good thoughts on Gillis' stones (that sounds wrong).

By the way, welcome to the Corner Nuckertuzzi, good seeing you here.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby tantalum » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:09 pm

I agree Pot this isn't a philosophical shift despite what the media is saying. This team was built last year to be a two scoring line, two checking line team. And it was until Malhotra got hurt at which point they lost half a checking line. This gets them back to that philosophy and with Pahlsson, LaPierre, Malhotra and Reinprecht have the depth at center to keep those two checking lines in tact this time out (hopefully). They have also through the summer and year added depth on the wing. From Booth, Bitz, Pinnizotto, Duco and Kassian (add in Volpatti who showed he could at least hold his own reasonably well 5 on 5) Sure some are borderline NHLers but they can come in an contribute to that 4th line (Booth obviously more than 4th line). Yes those guys are all north-south go to the net type guys but that in and of itself isn't a change in philosophy...They acquired LaPierre, Higgins, developed Hansen and Kesler and Burrows for this type of purpose. The difference is they added size and grit to (hopefully) make that aspect of the game more effective.

LeBrun sure loves this deal for the canucks. In fact most of the media types do..except Button and, well, he's Button.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby coco_canuck » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:14 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:I think the Canucks as an organization believe that the 3rd and 4th lines should be gritty checking lines that are defensively sound. This trade pretty much cements that.


Yup.

AV, and Gillis believe in having a top-notch shutdown 3rd line that allows the top two lines to focus on offence. It was a recipe for success until Manny got hurt last season, and despite Kesler's prowess in shutting down top players on the opposition, the team missed having a 3rd line that would play that shutdown role. If Pahlsson carries the load on the 3rd, then we should see more offence from Kes and Hank's lines.

I can't say I disagree with their philosophy. All cup winners have had high-value checking line, and as solid as Lappy was for us last year, he didn't make the 3rd line a top-end shut-down line. I was concerned with the potential match-up problems we'd face with Cody on the 3rd line in the playoffs. It would render Kesler's line with Booth, two top 6 forwards, into a checking role and instead rely on the 3rd line for supplemental scoring in limited ice time. True Cody has offensive skills and would produce a bit, but the playoffs are much harder for slower players and those who have yet to excel in the dirty areas.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:17 pm

Arachnid wrote:Interesting that everyone wants to throw the Kassian kid under the Lucic bus and no one wants to go down the Bertuzzi comparison route..... 8-)


Bert was never much of a fighter, was more of a loafer, and had far higher end skill then either Lucic or Kassian.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Nuckertuzzi » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:19 pm

coco_canuck wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:By the way, welcome to the Corner Nuckertuzzi, good seeing you here.



Good seeing you and other old friends here. I've been checking in once in a while but rarely post as you can see by my count. CCorner is a good Carpathia to our Titanic.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Tciso » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:24 pm

dhabums wrote:
Look at it this way; you just dumped your sweet, trustworthy girlfriend that was marriage material for a nasty, do anything slut that will be fun for awhile.


Who hasn't made that trade in the past at some point??
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Vpete » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:29 pm

The checking line philosophy is perfect because you can look at Philly a team which rolls a ton of scorers but no true checking force. They have shoddy goaltending and then look at how they let some pretty soft scoring teams light them up and they engage in horse races every game.

The Canucks have the horses but what we saw last year was that if you can't afford to slow down you can injure those horses thus eliminating the most critical component to the team. Kassian doesn't have to go on a goal scoring tear but he certainly has to make an impact with physical play.

What if AV drops him on the second line with Booth and Kesler against the Preds? Does Gill try to mess with anyone, Weber, Suter or Tootoo?

Think about dropping him square in front of the net- have fun with that battle. It's a dimension which the Canucks fed off for three years with the WCE, put a big forward in front with hands. Now look at the cycle of the Sedins the puck movement of Edler and Hamhuis, Bieksa and Salo on the points.

He should not be thrown into the deep end right away but this is a guy with enough of a hockey brain and skill set that a team with the phenomenal resources of the Canucks for training and improvement away from the ice should be able to mold.

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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Vpete » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:31 pm

Tciso wrote:
dhabums wrote:
Look at it this way; you just dumped your sweet, trustworthy girlfriend that was marriage material for a nasty, do anything slut that will be fun for awhile.


Who hasn't made that trade in the past at some point??


Jesus- how did I miss that quote???

Freaking brilliant!
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Tciso » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:34 pm

ESQ wrote:This qualifies as a straight-up hockey trade to me - giving up one top-notch prospect for 2 second-notch prospects.

But I agree, I don't get the timing. If Kassian was available now, would he not be available in the off-season? Its not like Buffalo needed Hodgson for a cup run.


Buffalo fills a big hole on offense for years to come, and we get a potential Bertuzzi-esque player who will add toughness and grit right now, and we add our depth Dman. Good trade for both teams, and it's easy to see why Buffalo didn't wait. They have no idea if CoHo would be available this summer, especially if we picked up prospects for Schneids, instead of roster players. Buffalo took just as big of a gamble as we did, as they have traded a potential top 2 d-man, and a potential top 6 power forward. That's a lot for a team already light in NHL caliber players.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Reefer2 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:56 pm

Everyone will realise that in a couple of months we will be complaining about lack of scoring from the third line? We will probably also be talking about how once the Sedin's are shut down Kesler needs to pick up the slack.

I would never be a GM of a pro sports team, damned if you do and damned if you don't.
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Re: Canucks get Zack Kassian

Postby Nuckertuzzi » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:09 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
Nuckertuzzi wrote:Good post but interestingly I don't think this deal represents a philosophical move, in fact I think it represents a move back to the philosophy the team has had for the past few years.



Fully understood. You'd be blind not to see that AV has been clambering to get back to a similar formula that worked so well for them last year..and that's hard to argue with. The thing is that worked for them last year and a different formula has been working this year. Whether or not it would've translated to ultimate success is something we won't know now and the question is will reverting back work? I personally would've preferred to stick to what we know now.

While I fully understand that Cody's departure was probably written on the wall, I'm not sure now is the time to do it. I mentioned in an earlier post that the Twins don't look right to me this year and that had everything to do with the amount of minutes and airmiles they've had to endure this past calendar year. A long playoff run with not much of an offseason, then on to one of the craziest travel schedules to this point, all the while playing a shitload of overtime and having to fly East to play a meaningless All-Star game while most of the league recovers... It's all adding up and you can see it in their game. Remember last year wasn't nearly as demanding and yet they got shut down in two of the series. Kesler isn't far behind either in the beat-up department so you wonder if he can duplicate the Superman performance that bailed us out a few times last year. The success of the 'old' philosophy depended a lot on the top end guys carrying the team like top end guys. Since Xmas the Twins and Kes have had an uncomfortable amount of zero point games and that scares me. Hopefully the stretch of home games coming up will help rejuvenate them a bit but the grind isn't going to improve a whole lot more moving forward. And maybe Pahlsson helps Kes' offense but that remains to be seen.

This is why I would've preferred to wait to unload Cody at least until the offseason. Maybe he gives us that extra big goal that the Twins, Kes and co are unable to get...like he's done most of the year. Think of the goals he scored this year... 3 in 2 games against San Jose, 2 in 2 games against Detroit, 1 against Chicago, 1 against Nashville, and 1 against Boston. What do all these teams have in common? And what do the standings look like without those goals. Maybe our new/old philosophy allows us to win without it. I sure hope so...otherwise, Twins and Kes better find their Superman capes soon.
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