Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canucks

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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by Island Nucklehead »

ukcanuck wrote: Schneider, Raymond and Ballard for Byfuglien is a ridiculous good deal for the Jets and a stupid deal for the Canucks.
That really depends. I agree the Canucks don't need Byfuglien, they don't have trouble getting points from the back-end, he's not the character-type guy they're after, makes too much money etc. But the Jets don't exactly need our spare parts. They have Ondrej Pavelec, who is only 24 and is 10th in minutes played this season. The Jets are obviously not a great team, but Pavelec still has a save % north of .900 and a GAA under 3. I would doubt they're ready to give up on him yet.

Fugly has 6G 18A 24Pts -8 46 PIMs in 35 games. That averages out to a 13G 42A 56Pts 107 Pims over a full season. Awesome offensive numbers for a D-man. He would outscore Raymond and Ballard combined if everyone played a full season at their current production.

I'd have to agree with mondi here for Ballard and Raymond. Raymond is a second liner on some teams, a third liner on others, and Ballard's stock couldn't possibly be lower at the moment.


One team we haven't heard about too much is the Tampa Bay Lightening. They're not likely to make the playoffs (12th in the East 9 points out), and have a couple D-men UFA at the end of the season in Kubina and Brett Clark. Kubina is +4 and playing 19:45/night and shoots right. Not exactly fleet of foot but he's got a decent shot and is a big body (6'4, 250).
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by ukcanuck »

Island Nucklehead wrote:
ukcanuck wrote: Schneider, Raymond and Ballard for Byfuglien is a ridiculous good deal for the Jets and a stupid deal for the Canucks.
That really depends. I agree the Canucks don't need Byfuglien, they don't have trouble getting points from the back-end, he's not the character-type guy they're after, makes too much money etc. But the Jets don't exactly need our spare parts. They have Ondrej Pavelec, who is only 24 and is 10th in minutes played this season. The Jets are obviously not a great team, but Pavelec still has a save % north of .900 and a GAA under 3. I would doubt they're ready to give up on him yet.

Fugly has 6G 18A 24Pts -8 46 PIMs in 35 games. That averages out to a 13G 42A 56Pts 107 Pims over a full season. Awesome offensive numbers for a D-man. He would outscore Raymond and Ballard combined if everyone played a full season at their current production.

I'd have to agree with mondi here for Ballard and Raymond. Raymond is a second liner on some teams, a third liner on others, and Ballard's stock couldn't possibly be lower at the moment.


One team we haven't heard about too much is the Tampa Bay Lightening. They're not likely to make the playoffs (12th in the East 9 points out), and have a couple D-men UFA at the end of the season in Kubina and Brett Clark. Kubina is +4 and playing 19:45/night and shoots right. Not exactly fleet of foot but he's got a decent shot and is a big body (6'4, 250).
a comparable trade in my mind was the LInden for Bertuzzi and McCabe. At the time Linden was a fan favourite and many were unhappy but over time Bert and the Sedins made that team what it was for a decade or more and still counting.
Schneider has the potential to be the best goalie in Hockey, Raymond and Ballard would fit in nicely allowing the Jets other options...I guess the differece in our positions is that I dont classify Raymond Schneider and Ballard as spare parts. They are NHL ready players that would fit on almost any club and I think Gillis can do a better deal than fugly anyway
As for tampa, I wonder what it would take to get Ohlund back? we know what he can do and I bet he would be pumped to play for a stanley cup with his home away from home.. the kharma sounds about right anyway :)
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

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ukcanuck wrote: a comparable trade in my mind was the LInden for Bertuzzi and McCabe. At the time Linden was a fan favourite and many were unhappy but over time Bert and the Sedins made that team what it was for a decade or more and still counting.
Schneider has the potential to be the best goalie in Hockey, Raymond and Ballard would fit in nicely allowing the Jets other options...I guess the differece in our positions is that I dont classify Raymond Schneider and Ballard as spare parts. They are NHL ready players that would fit on almost any club and I think Gillis can do a better deal than fugly anyway
As for tampa, I wonder what it would take to get Ohlund back? we know what he can do and I bet he would be pumped to play for a stanley cup with his home away from home.. the kharma sounds about right anyway :)
Well the thing when goalies are involved you have to always consider organizational depth at that position. When Linden was dealt he wasn't playing good hockey. 7 goals through 42 games and a -13. Bryan McCabe was the Captain of the Islanders at the time and Todd Bertuzzi was a former first round pick that finally met his potential in Vancouver.

Schneider certainly has the potential to be one of the better goalies in hockey. The question is wether the Jets want to give up a 55 point D-man for a starting goalie when they already have a young starter in net. From the Canucks, do you want to unload your most valuable trading chip for someone who you're not even sure what position they'll play? It just doesn't seem like a good fit for either team.

To make credible trade proposals we really must look at both teams involved. You wouldn't think Schneider would go to a team that has an established or up-and-coming goalie and/or rivalries with Vancouver. So I wouldn't think he's going to LA, NSH, DET, CHI, SJS, CGY, EDM, COL, MIN, STL, BUF, FLA, MTL, NYR, PHI, BOS, PIT.... who does that leave?

Winnipeg might be a possibility, but only if they give up on Paelec. IMO they won't do that AND shed Byfuglien. Byfuglien and Pavelec is more valuable to them then Schneider/Ballard/Raymond.

Dallas has Lehtonen in goal for another year after this one, and he's played fairly well there. No rush for them to go out and make a splash for Schneider, especially not with Jack Campbell coming down the pipeline.

Carolina. Cam Ward has been up and down. It's a possibility but an unlikely one.

Columbus. Could be a destination with Mason proving he's not the wonder-child once thought to be.

Anaheim. Plenty of rumours there. Hiller might not be the guy.

New Jersey. Brodeur only has so much time left.

Tampa. Needs a goalie.

NY Islanders. They'd consider it. But with their revolving door of tenders who knows...

Phoenix. Mike Smith is playing very well. Is he the guy going forward?

Washington. Vokun hasn't been a solid addition and is 36.

Toronto. Media will hype Reimer and Gustafsson after 2-3 solid games. They'd be interested in a bona-fide starter.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by Calgary_Canuck »

So, I have to ask is this the same Farhan on TSN? Or is it a copy cat?
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by Vpete »

Island Nucklehead wrote:
ukcanuck wrote: a comparable trade in my mind was the LInden for Bertuzzi and McCabe. At the time Linden was a fan favourite and many were unhappy but over time Bert and the Sedins made that team what it was for a decade or more and still counting.
Schneider has the potential to be the best goalie in Hockey, Raymond and Ballard would fit in nicely allowing the Jets other options...I guess the differece in our positions is that I dont classify Raymond Schneider and Ballard as spare parts. They are NHL ready players that would fit on almost any club and I think Gillis can do a better deal than fugly anyway
As for tampa, I wonder what it would take to get Ohlund back? we know what he can do and I bet he would be pumped to play for a stanley cup with his home away from home.. the kharma sounds about right anyway :)
Well the thing when goalies are involved you have to always consider organizational depth at that position. When Linden was dealt he wasn't playing good hockey. 7 goals through 42 games and a -13. Bryan McCabe was the Captain of the Islanders at the time and Todd Bertuzzi was a former first round pick that finally met his potential in Vancouver.

Schneider certainly has the potential to be one of the better goalies in hockey. The question is wether the Jets want to give up a 55 point D-man for a starting goalie when they already have a young starter in net. From the Canucks, do you want to unload your most valuable trading chip for someone who you're not even sure what position they'll play? It just doesn't seem like a good fit for either team.

To make credible trade proposals we really must look at both teams involved. You wouldn't think Schneider would go to a team that has an established or up-and-coming goalie and/or rivalries with Vancouver. So I wouldn't think he's going to LA, NSH, DET, CHI, SJS, CGY, EDM, COL, MIN, STL, BUF, FLA, MTL, NYR, PHI, BOS, PIT.... who does that leave?

Winnipeg might be a possibility, but only if they give up on Paelec. IMO they won't do that AND shed Byfuglien. Byfuglien and Pavelec is more valuable to them then Schneider/Ballard/Raymond.

Dallas has Lehtonen in goal for another year after this one, and he's played fairly well there. No rush for them to go out and make a splash for Schneider, especially not with Jack Campbell coming down the pipeline.

Carolina. Cam Ward has been up and down. It's a possibility but an unlikely one.

Columbus. Could be a destination with Mason proving he's not the wonder-child once thought to be.

Anaheim. Plenty of rumours there. Hiller might not be the guy.

New Jersey. Brodeur only has so much time left.

Tampa. Needs a goalie.

NY Islanders. They'd consider it. But with their revolving door of tenders who knows...

Phoenix. Mike Smith is playing very well. Is he the guy going forward?

Washington. Vokun hasn't been a solid addition and is 36.

Toronto. Media will hype Reimer and Gustafsson after 2-3 solid games. They'd be interested in a bona-fide starter.

The Jets are not giving anyone up for Schneider, nothing to see here move along now.

Byfuglien may be the one key asset they have to keep along with Ladd, Bogosian, Wheeler and Burmistrov. Word is still out on Kane as the kid's attitude may be too big for Winnipeg. Lots of probs away from the rink.

To give you an idea of how mixed up the Jets are they play Antropov on the PK!!

If the Jets need anything its a true number one centre and so do a lot of other teams is that what Vancouver parts with? Not in my opinion but perhaps Anaheim would by sending Buff for Getzlaf type deal. That's the pipe dream many have in Winnipeg.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by ukcanuck »

Vpete wrote:

The Jets are not giving anyone up for Schneider, nothing to see here move along now.

Byfuglien may be the one key asset they have to keep along with Ladd, Bogosian, Wheeler and Burmistrov. Word is still out on Kane as the kid's attitude may be too big for Winnipeg. Lots of probs away from the rink.

To give you an idea of how mixed up the Jets are they play Antropov on the PK!!

If the Jets need anything its a true number one centre and so do a lot of other teams is that what Vancouver parts with? Not in my opinion but perhaps Anaheim would by sending Buff for Getzlaf type deal. That's the pipe dream many have in Winnipeg.
I'm sorry I didn't realise we had a resident psychic on board. perhaps you meant to say IMO ?
i mean the Moose who are now the Jets had as close up a view on Schneider's development as one can get, if anyone knows this kids potential its them, However, let me be clear here, I don't want to trade Schneider for Fugly i just objected to the undervaluation of the Canucks trade able players
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by Vpete »

ukcanuck wrote:
Vpete wrote:

The Jets are not giving anyone up for Schneider, nothing to see here move along now.

Byfuglien may be the one key asset they have to keep along with Ladd, Bogosian, Wheeler and Burmistrov. Word is still out on Kane as the kid's attitude may be too big for Winnipeg. Lots of probs away from the rink.

To give you an idea of how mixed up the Jets are they play Antropov on the PK!!

If the Jets need anything its a true number one centre and so do a lot of other teams is that what Vancouver parts with? Not in my opinion but perhaps Anaheim would by sending Buff for Getzlaf type deal. That's the pipe dream many have in Winnipeg.
I'm sorry I didn't realise we had a resident psychic on board. perhaps you meant to say IMO ?
i mean the Moose who are now the Jets had as close up a view on Schneider's development as one can get, if anyone knows this kids potential its them, However, let me be clear here, I don't want to trade Schneider for Fugly i just objected to the undervaluation of the Canucks trade able players
I don't have to be psychic, just using common sense. The Moose are in St. John's but the former GM is still in Winnipeg and he may like Schneider but he is not the final say, another guy is. If you dropped Pavelec in Schneider's place I would suspect similar numbers, he's good but what's in front of him needs improvement. Trading away Byfuglien for a similar goalie does not in any way help the Winnipeg Jets.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by ukcanuck »

Vpete wrote:
I don't have to be psychic, just using common sense. The Moose are in St. John's but the former GM is still in Winnipeg and he may like Schneider but he is not the final say, another guy is. If you dropped Pavelec in Schneider's place I would suspect similar numbers, he's good but what's in front of him needs improvement. Trading away Byfuglien for a similar goalie does not in any way help the Winnipeg Jets.
huh? this statement makes no sense to me. Do you mean ownership? why would they interfere with the GM's job description like that and what person would want the GM job without being able to make a routine trade? a Schneider trade would hardly break the bank.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by dbr »

ukcanuck wrote:
Vpete wrote:
I don't have to be psychic, just using common sense. The Moose are in St. John's but the former GM is still in Winnipeg and he may like Schneider but he is not the final say, another guy is. If you dropped Pavelec in Schneider's place I would suspect similar numbers, he's good but what's in front of him needs improvement. Trading away Byfuglien for a similar goalie does not in any way help the Winnipeg Jets.
huh? this statement makes no sense to me. Do you mean ownership? why would they interfere with the GM's job description like that and what person would want the GM job without being able to make a routine trade? a Schneider trade would hardly break the bank.
The final say goes to the team's GM (Kevin Cheveldayoff) who had no ties to the organization prior to their purchase of an NHL franchise.

Bottom line is that one of the things the Jets have is a fine young goaltender with a high ceiling - there are teams out there willing to make a big trade to get Corey Schneider but the likelihood of the Jets being one of them is extremely low.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by zephyr »

ukcanuck wrote: As for tampa, I wonder what it would take to get Ohlund back? we know what he can do and I bet he would be pumped to play for a stanley cup with his home away from home.. the kharma sounds about right anyway :)
I entertained the idea, but Ohlund's game was already going south when he left here. Loved the guy in his prime though. Furthermore:

- arthroscopic surgery on BOTH knees
- has 3 (?) years left with a $3.6M cap hit
- put up 5 points last year on a high scoring tampa club
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by BladesofSteel »

ukcanuck wrote: As for tampa, I wonder what it would take to get Ohlund back?
I'm sure Tampa Bay is wondering the same thing.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by ukcanuck »

BladesofSteel wrote:
ukcanuck wrote: As for tampa, I wonder what it would take to get Ohlund back?
I'm sure Tampa Bay is wondering the same thing.

meh it was all star weekend and I was bored...still I think that it would be great to have the guy on tap in the playoffs as a replacement in the later rounds. If we are conceding that attrition is a fact of life it seems likely that to make the final we are going to play at least two maybe three very rough rounds before running straight into the Bruins or an eastern team that played tougher than the Bruins.
sure he has had both knees scoped in October so he hasn't played much this past year and was in a noticeable decline when he was playing but he signed a 7 year contract which is probably prorated with the expensive part already payed...
I think the writing is on the wall for Ohlund his career is all but over, its doubtful that the lightning will have room for a hobbled old d-man with his best years behind him and elsewhere.
not knowing how bad the scoping has left him but if he has anything in the tank he could go out a winner on the team he spent his career with. It would be a nice story and tell me when the league suspended Rome last year and we were already down the Hammer, how good would it be to have ohlund there...
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by Island Nucklehead »

Ohlund would be a pretty expensive depth/injury guy. A nice thought, the guy enjoyed his best seasons as a Canuck, but Ohlund has FOUR more years at $3.6M AFTER this one. If we thought Ballards contract was bad.... yikes. I don't think he's scored a regular season goal in Tampa Bay.

Ohlund left the Canucks knowing that he was signing a sweetheart retirement deal in Florida. I don't think the Canucks, or Ohlund, had any illusions that he'd ever play here again.

If we're going to throw bad contracts around as deadline options, I'd rather have Cory Sarich. At least his $3.6M is done after this season, and with 5 goals over the past two seasons he's a regular Bobby Orr compared to Ohlund.
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Re: Farhan's $0.02: Dustin Byfuglien and the Vancouver Canu

Post by ukcanuck »

Island Nucklehead wrote:Ohlund would be a pretty expensive depth/injury guy. A nice thought, the guy enjoyed his best seasons as a Canuck, but Ohlund has FOUR more years at $3.6M AFTER this one. If we thought Ballards contract was bad.... yikes. I don't think he's scored a regular season goal in Tampa Bay.

Ohlund left the Canucks knowing that he was signing a sweetheart retirement deal in Florida. I don't think the Canucks, or Ohlund, had any illusions that he'd ever play here again.

If we're going to throw bad contracts around as deadline options, I'd rather have Cory Sarich. At least his $3.6M is done after this season, and with 5 goals over the past two seasons he's a regular Bobby Orr compared to Ohlund.
Mondi will have to forgive the make believe or make a wish aura of these types of threads, as they all are really just nice thoughts or maybe not so nice as the case may be. Certainly when you look at the title of the thread with no insult intended toward Farhan's 2/10th of a cent. it what you would hope to find when there is nothing but a all star game on for a week.
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