Tanev recalled

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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by ESQ » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:29 pm

coco_canuck wrote:From his standpoint as GM and former agent, he certainly seems to believe that players do care about the type of deals their teammates sign, especially if they took less to be on a certain team.
Hm, I had never thought about it from that angle. He has certainly been a master at getting stars re-upped for well below their market value. Even Raymond I thought was under value at the time, Hansen is way under value, and Burrows has probably the best contract in the NHL. Bieksa at $4.6 is a steal too, considering the market last summer.

If Ehrhoff is the sacrifice to get Art Ross trophy winners under contract at $6.1 million, then I'm happy. Personally I could have lived with him being the highest-paid defenseman on the team, but meh.

Another comparison from Buffalo's silly season - Ville Leino at $4.5 million, Kesler signs for $5 million.

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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by coco_canuck » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:41 pm

ESQ wrote: Another comparison from Buffalo's silly season - Ville Leino at $4.5 million, Kesler signs for $5 million.
Yeah, but I think the Leino contract is best thought of in terms of Booth's contract.

Not to say Booth's contract didn't come with any risks, but he's a superior player to Leino, and the UFA market got Leino $4.5M per year.

$4.5M is becoming the norm for 2nd line players and 2nd pairing d-men. The trick is to not give the wrong player, such as Leino, that type of money.

Fleischmann, a good offensive player but not what the Canucks need, and Brooks Laich both got deals worth $4.5M per year.

Now Laich would be a great fit on this team, but his max offensive production is 25 goals and just under 60 points, compared to Booth who has eclipsed 30 goals and 60 points, and has the offensive talent and potential to be a consistent 30 goal scorer.

As much as I like what Laich brings to a team, he's not a player I'd want to give a 6 year deal to at a $4.5M cap-hit.

So, although Booth's contract came with risks, it's a closer to what his real value is compared to other players with similar salaries. If Booth hit the UFA market after a full year of playing the way he has so far for the Canucks, he's a +$5M player. That's a bigger indictment on what the UFA market bears than what Booth's real value should be.

There's almost no way the Canucks would be able to sign Booth to a 4-year deal at $4.25M per if he were a free-agent...that was the status of his contract when Gillis acquired him.

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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by Strangelove » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:48 pm

Potatoe1 wrote: He is pretty much exactly what we are missing.

I know people want a player with more grit, but a gritty version of Ehrhoff simply isn't available at a price we could afford.
Not sure wot others wanted.

Personally I didn't want/expect a "gritty version of Ehrhoff".

I wanted a gritty shutdown dee who could play the right side paired with Edler.

I called him BEAST.

I wanted Salo on the 3rd pairing with lotsa PP time.

Also imo Ehrhoff was overrated offensively and it appears to me when the going gets tough

.... Ehrhoff lays down like a whipped dog!

(read: playoffs)

I'm glad Ehrhoff is gone, sad Ballard isn't, and dissappointed there's no beast.

But it's early, plenty of time til the deadline.

I like to think Gillis saw things this way and was hoping the trade value of both Ballard and Schneider would grow between October and February (well Schneider's has - especially to Nuck fans lol; Ballard too - compared to June). We need BEAST and can pick up a reliable experienced veteran backup as Lou Insurance. I like to think some GMs still see Ballard as a Top 4 dee in a different scenario.
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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by coco_canuck » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:03 pm

Strangelove wrote: We need BEAST and can pick up a reliable experienced veteran backup as Lou Insurance. I like to think some GMs still see Ballard as a Top 4 dee in a different scenario.
The most obvious BEASTS that come to mind are Suter and Weber.

Since our most palatable trade chip is Schneider, and the Preds are set in net, I have my doubts as to the Canucks' ability to get either in a trade. The most likely way is through UFA or offer-sheet.

So in terms of targets by the deadline, it's hard to spot any obvious BEASTS.

I'm not sold of Schenn, and even if he lives up this potential, it won't be happening for a couple of years given how much work his game needs.

We'd all like to add Gleason, but is he the BEAST we're really looking for?

Gleason could be a nice 5-6 D-man who can step in the top 4 when needed, but he's yet another left handed defenseman, and he doesn't have the talent to be a regular top 4 player on this team.

Looking around the league, I don't see many veteran top d-men being available.

The only players I could see as possible targets are good, young, up-and-coming d-men on teams that need goaltending or help up-front.

With that in mind these are the guys I'd look at, although some of those names are very unlikely to move:

Islanders - Hamonic
Colorado - E. Johnson
Toronto - Gardiner
Washington - Carlson, Alzner
Tampa - Hedman
New Jersey - Larsson
Florida - Gudbranson, Garrison
Phoenix - Ekman-Larson, Runblad

Not all of those guys fall into the BEAST category, but all project as legit top 3 d-men. Also, at least a few of those names, like Larsson, Hedman, E. Larson and Gudbranson are nearly untouchable. But as we've seen, teams are generally more willing to trade somewhat unknown commodities than they are with moving guys who are established top d-men.

I think Gillis can get a good d-man in a package for Schneider, but I don't see it happening by the deadline.

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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by Potatoe1 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:30 pm

coco_canuck wrote:
Strangelove wrote: We need BEAST and can pick up a reliable experienced veteran backup as Lou Insurance. I like to think some GMs still see Ballard as a Top 4 dee in a different scenario.
The most obvious BEASTS that come to mind are Suter and Weber.

Since our most palatable trade chip is Schneider, and the Preds are set in net, I have my doubts as to the Canucks' ability to get either in a trade. The most likely way is through UFA or offer-sheet.

So in terms of targets by the deadline, it's hard to spot any obvious BEASTS.

It's going to be incredibly hard to get a physical right shooting player with enough talent to play in our top4.

Personally I think we shouldn't bother trying to add toughness in the form of a top 4 defenseman it is just to difficult to find a guy like that.

If you want to add toughness it's a lot easier to get a bottom pairing guy or a bottom 9 forward. Tough first line forwards or top4 defenseman (who can also skate and move the puck) are a rare commodity that will likely cost a fortune.

Doc keeps talking about a "BEAST" but he doesn't actually mention very many players by name. I think it's mostly because there aren't many who fit his description.

Tim Gleason isn't even that good (or tough) and the market for him is going to be massive.

On a side note, thank god we signed Bieksa..................

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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by coco_canuck » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:47 pm

Potatoe1 wrote: Tim Gleason isn't even that good (or tough) and the market for him is going to be massive.
Yup, and that's why I'm not holding my breath for a top 4 d-man coming this way.

The type of player we're looking for will cost a Hodgson or Schneider in a package, and I don't see that type of deal happening until the off-season.
Potatoe1 wrote: On a side note, thank god we signed Bieksa..................
Outside of Ballard, the Canucks are getting incredible bang for their buck.

A legit, number 1 pairing that can play the shutdown game as good as any is costing the Canucks $9.1M per year.

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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by Waffle » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:37 am

I read Coco's post, and remembered Fred's recent post in another thread:

"I was surprised last night to see Pitts had just won their 7th game in a row...as has Detroit. Pitts have $8 mill Cap Space and Detroit (am I reading CapGeek right) has $14 million to spend come the trade deadline....they can unburden a few teams of their financial woes. Vanc has by contrast $1.8.....Chicago has $20 mill
http://www.capgeek.com/"

I am wondering how these other teams who are pretty close to Vancouver in the standings have so much cap space to play with. Even if you knocked off a couple of million from Ballard's salary, the numbers still wouldn't be that close. I would guess that some of it must be that Detroit and Chicago are benefitting from the lower salary for younger goalies.

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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by Tiger » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:16 am

After reading posts on dman trade I am thinking we aren't going to get a "Beast" for Doc.. would settle for a Malik or Murzyn type no flash stay at home dman..Erhoff had 1 great offensive season followed by a playoff meltdown ..offence but not much for defence..
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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by ESQ » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:11 pm

Potatoe1 wrote: It's going to be incredibly hard to get a physical right shooting player with enough talent to play in our top4.
I'm a little fixated now that the rumours of his availability have started, but PK Subban shoots right...I could see him blossoming in a sheltered role behind 3 extremely solid defensive dmen and on the second pairing, with big PP time.
Waffle wrote:"I was surprised last night to see Pitts had just won their 7th game in a row...as has Detroit. Pitts have $8 mill Cap Space and Detroit (am I reading CapGeek right) has $14 million to spend come the trade deadline....they can unburden a few teams of their financial woes. Vanc has by contrast $1.8.....Chicago has $20 mill
http://www.capgeek.com/"
The number you're referring to is their pro-rated cap space, for example Chicago can add players whose total annual salaries add up to $20 million. Their cap space to start the year was only $13 million, but because they're now only on the hook for 1/3 of the salary that money goes a lot farther.

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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by Potatoe1 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:20 pm

ESQ wrote: I'm a little fixated now that the rumours of his availability have started, but PK Subban shoots right...I could see him blossoming in a sheltered role behind 3 extremely solid defensive dmen and on the second pairing, with big PP time.

I dont buy those rumors for a second.

Montreal is nuts if they trade him, and yes should the Habs lose their mind the Canucks should be all over it.

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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by Madcombinepilot » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:21 pm

I didn't think cap space was pro rated.. I thought it was calculated on a per game basis?
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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by Strangelove » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:58 pm

Potatoe1 wrote: It's going to be incredibly hard to get a physical right shooting player with enough talent to play in our top4.

Personally I think we shouldn't bother trying to add toughness in the form of a top 4 defenseman it is just to difficult to find a guy like that.

If you want to add toughness it's a lot easier to get a bottom pairing guy or a bottom 9 forward. Tough first line forwards or top4 defenseman (who can also skate and move the puck) are a rare commodity that will likely cost a fortune.

Doc keeps talking about a "BEAST" but he doesn't actually mention very many players by name. I think it's mostly because there aren't many who fit his description.
Potski, not sure if I have the time/inclination for a game of...

‘Strangelove sets em up, Potato knocks em down’. ;)

There are more than enough BEASTs out there... and all you really need is ONE

(GMMG could target the ONE abd overpay).

There are plenty especially if one considers BEAST vs BEAST vs beast.

You probably have a pretty good idea of who they are.

Even if we're talking BEAST who would "cost a fortune" as you say

... we should pay full price because this is probably the best shot at Cup glory in Canuck history!

We can afford to give up Schneider (replace with aging veteran proven backup) + Raymond + Schroeder + 1st.

... and that's a fortune indeed. :D

PAY IT says I, cuz this team needs BEAST to have a shot!

Gotta log off for the evening, but I'll see if I can suggest a dozen-or-2 candidates for your (dis)approval tomorrow. :D
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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by Fred » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:50 pm

I want a beast that provide a good fast and heavy fore check and he doesn't need to be a 10-15 goal scorer

&

I want a beast to help clear the net on the PK and he doesn't have to be a 25 minute man


How rare are these


I don't want opposing teams D's to have it easy and have time to make good breakouts. And I don't want the area around Luongo's crease to be a pleasant area to set up shop.
cheers

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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by BladesofSteel » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:52 pm

The team has more cap space than the internet seems to lead on.

A monster is what this club does need on the blueline, most teams do. What I suspect Gillis is seeking is one who is not a monster yet. One who may be close, but is in need of a change of scenery. If Gillis is going to make a sacrifice of assets, I suspect this is the area he will commit them to. WeberSuter is beyond unrealistic this season.

Tanev, Connauton, Sauve, Schroeder, Bitz, Mancari and Reinprecht will likely be in the press box come April, or once the Wolves season has completed.

With the Jets seemingly losing its grip on capturing a playoff spot this year, I look to see the teams 'new' GM selling some expendables and rebuilding his team for next season.

The more I think about it, the more I see Winnipeg and Vancouver making perfect trade partners in the coming weeks. If there is one franchise Gillis has formulated a strong relationship with, its in Manitoba.

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Re: Tanev recalled

Post by Potatoe1 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:25 pm

Strangelove wrote: Gotta log off for the evening, but I'll see if I can suggest a dozen-or-2 candidates for your (dis)approval tomorrow. :D

I wait with baited breath... :D

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