Cammalleri to Calgary

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ESQ
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by ESQ »

Potatoe1 wrote: That approach has churned out 2 cup winners in recent years, however for every Pens and Hawks team there are another 3 teams who cant seem to escape from an endless rebuilding cycle.
I have no respect for teams that deliberately tank to get the high pick - I'd add Tampa to that list as well. At least Pittsburgh's toilet seasons were brief, which makes it more obviously deliberate, but Chicago was in the crapper for almost a decade before their high picks finally turned out. Chicago also "won" the draft lottery and moved from 5th to 1st overall to get Kane, the year after getting Toews at 3rd.

At this point, I'm cheering for the Laffs over the Oilers, because they've truly been in a dogfight every year since Burke took over. Of course, it backfired when Boston got Seguin, but at least there was fight in the franchise, and now they're being (somewhat) rewarded. Toronto also has a better shot to stay competitive, because they won't be signing 3-4 superstar contracts at the same time, which will devastate Edmonton in a few years.

I think I like the Philly model the best - they had a bad season forming, in spite of loading up on FAs and expecting to go deep, and managed to sell off so many vets for picks and prospects in that one year that they were back in the upper echelon the following year. I don't think the Canucks have been in an analogous situation - Naslund's last year maybe, but the Canucks were leading the division at the deadline.
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by tantalum »

In the Oilers defense they did try to lure several big name free agents to help the club but have been completely unsuccessful in doing so except for Souray which was just a stupid decision. They even tried to trade for a 50 goal scorer but that trade was killed due to a NTC clause. The problem is that the Oilers don't seem to be able to augment a roster with good players so they can at least be solid. They seem to give up on the summer when they don't land the big fish. That comes down more to inept management IMO not a conscious decision to tank and build through top 5 picks. I find it similar to the Blue Jackets who were never even really built let alone going through a re-build.

The Oilers are in trouble because unlike the Preds who have built a sturdy foundation and now have the stars looking for big money (or out altogether), the Oilers don't have that foundation. They only have the three stars...all of whom are getting hurt having to carry the load for the team (Exhausted players = injured players). I look at the Preds and every year they seem to have a kid making an impact later in the season. This year they have Smith and Josi contributing important minutes. For all the drafting the Oilers do they sure aren't very good at it.
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by Potatoe1 »

dbr wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:Who would you rather be right now, the Oilers who essentially have 3 all star type young players but are terrible over all, or the Sens who might not have the high end guys but are still loaded with youth and all ready competitive?
Not to disagree with your overall point but the Sens do have some top end talent, Karlsson was a fantastic pick and Zibanejad could be another really strong player in a few years.. and the Kyle Turris trade could pay off for them big time. He may never be tough to play against but he is already producing like a second line center - six games with nothing to start the year and now nine points in 13 games - although I'm sure playing with Daniel Alfredsson has helped.

Karlson is absolutely a top end player, I was speaking more in generalities.

I'm not sure Turris and Zibanejad are on the same level as the Edmonton trio however.
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Doyle Hargraves
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

BCExpat wrote:

Oh, and about the playoffs - I seem to recall another Flames team that wasn't considered that good in 2004. They went a long ways in the playoffs. I'm not saying this group can repeat this feat - I'm just pointing out that anything can happen in the playoffs. So, of course their goal should be to make the playoffs.
Well Expat the Flames are going to need to play at least .666 the rest of the way just to qualify for the post season. Can't see it happening myself.

As for 04 I was worried about playing the Flames in the 1st round. Not because I thought they were really good, but because they had an elite goalie at the time and the Canucks had Dan Cloutier and Alex Auld playing goal. No such luck for Calgary this time as Schneider and Luongo are at least Mikka Kiprusoff's equal if not better. There's also the little matter of Jarome Iginla being 35 and a shell of his former self.
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by Southern_Canuck »

Blob Mckenzie wrote:As for 04 I was worried about playing the Flames in the 1st round. Not because I thought they were really good, but because they had an elite goalie at the time and the Canucks had Dan Cloutier and Alex Auld playing goal. No such luck for Calgary this time as Schneider and Luongo are at least Mikka Kiprusoff's equal if not better. There's also the little matter of Jarome Iginla being 35 and a shell of his former self.
And in 2004 the Canucks were missing Bertuzzi through suspension which disabled their top line. Geoff Sanderson and Martin Rucinsky are not Todd Bertuzzi. Then, of course, Cloutier was hurt in Game 3 although the Canucks won anyway to go up 2-1, but the rest is history.

I'll never forget the finish to Game 7 - Cooke scores with 6 seconds left to tie it while 4-on-4, but with Jovo still in the box for a cheap even up call, Gelina gets the OT winner 1:25 into OT.



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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by Fred »

The team that impresses me is Florida, I mentioned before the season they'd look better but I never expected this, Their propsects are impressive. PLus I never thought Ottawa would do as well, seems like the coach has them playing asa team.

The Panthers took the Bruins to a shoot out tonight
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by BCExpat »

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
BCExpat wrote:

Oh, and about the playoffs - I seem to recall another Flames team that wasn't considered that good in 2004. They went a long ways in the playoffs. I'm not saying this group can repeat this feat - I'm just pointing out that anything can happen in the playoffs. So, of course their goal should be to make the playoffs.
Well Expat the Flames are going to need to play at least .666 the rest of the way just to qualify for the post season. Can't see it happening myself.

As for 04 I was worried about playing the Flames in the 1st round. Not because I thought they were really good, but because they had an elite goalie at the time and the Canucks had Dan Cloutier and Alex Auld playing goal. No such luck for Calgary this time as Schneider and Luongo are at least Mikka Kiprusoff's equal if not better. There's also the little matter of Jarome Iginla being 35 and a shell of his former self.

What it comes down to, is that the Flames have to beat the teams they are competing with for the last couple of playoff spots. If they win most of those "4 point" games, they are in - if not, they are out - simple as that. It's more who they beat.

I wasn't suggesting that the Flames would beat the Canucks in the playoffs this year. My point was, that if they make it, anything could happen and they should be trying to make the playoffs.
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by wienerdog »

tantalum wrote:In the Oilers defense they did try to lure several big name free agents to help the club but have been completely unsuccessful in doing so except for Souray which was just a stupid decision. They even tried to trade for a 50 goal scorer but that trade was killed due to a NTC clause. The problem is that the Oilers don't seem to be able to augment a roster with good players so they can at least be solid. They seem to give up on the summer when they don't land the big fish. That comes down more to inept management IMO not a conscious decision to tank and build through top 5 picks. I find it similar to the Blue Jackets who were never even really built let alone going through a re-build.
IMO the single biggest improvement the Oil could do to attract free agents is to remodel the franchise from the back-end out - much like Gillis did here.

Renovate all the spaces into best-in-the-League facilities. Hire sleep doctors and other high-end support staff. Give the players redonkulous amenities.

Go even further: make Rexall a place that the press loves to come to because you treat them like fucking oil sheikhs. They will help spread the word of your new opulent empire.

This would all help in making EDM a more desirable place to play. I know you can't fix the weather or the Pronger wives, but hey, you can do what you can.

With Daryl Katz holding the purse-strings, money to do this kind of shit shouldn't be an issue.
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

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tantalum wrote:In the Oilers defense they did try to lure several big name free agents to help the club but have been completely unsuccessful in doing so except for Souray which was just a stupid decision. ...

The Oilers are in trouble because unlike the Preds who have built a sturdy foundation and now have the stars looking for big money (or out altogether), the Oilers don't have that foundation.
Oilers have landed some big fish, including Pronger and Khabibulin. But there problem is, their development sucks, and their player relations suck, and nobody wants to trade with them because they're shady. They're on a tight budget, but they gave out big contracts to the wrong guys. Prime example was trading Smyth because they were $250,000 apart. I don't think its a coincidence that they haven't gotten a sniff of the playoffs since that trade.

But what really did them in was losing Pronger. The story of the Oilers is totally different if they had kept him.

Now the Preds are the yin to the Oilers' yang. They haven't had a top-5 pick since their expansion year, spend to the cap floor, and are still extremely competitive. Unlike Atlanta, their one big deadline acquisition (Forsberg) didn't wipe out their future.

Can you imagine how different the Canucks would have been with competent management out of the gate? :sigh:
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by Tiger »

ESQ said:
Can you imagine how different the Canucks would have been with competent management out of the gate? :sigh:
Bad luck from the getgo.. a spin of the wheel going right and we'd of got Perrault.. not Talon.. Then they only had 1 first overall pick in 40 years... and traded that away.... sigh: Unfortunately the management and team was good enough to only finish last the one time.. :(
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by Knucklehead »

Tiger wrote:ESQ said:
Can you imagine how different the Canucks would have been with competent management out of the gate? :sigh:
Bad luck from the getgo.. a spin of the wheel going right and we'd of got Perrault.. not Talon.. Then they only had 1 first overall pick in 40 years... and traded that away.... sigh: Unfortunately the management and team was good enough to only finish last the one time.. :(
The Canucks management of the day probably would have ruined Perrault and we would be lamenting that we could have had TALON, TALON the best damn d-man to ever play the game.
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by coco_canuck »

BCExpat wrote:
I wasn't suggesting that the Flames would beat the Canucks in the playoffs this year. My point was, that if they make it, anything could happen and they should be trying to make the playoffs.
I think as a Flames fan, you have to ask:

A) at what cost should the Flames be trying to make the playoffs at the moment?

B) Is Cammalleri worth the extra cap-hit and giving up the 2nd round pick if we consider Ramo and Holland a prospect wash?

The Flames will have some cap space coming up, but depending on the cap next-season, the Flames may not have as much space as some fans think, especially after re-signing Comeau and Backlund now that they've added almost $3M on their cap with the Cammalleri move.

I'm not sold on the Oilers re-build, but they have added some stud pieces to their team, and they're simply in a situation where the GM has to find the necessary supporting pieces. The Flames are an aging team who got older by adding Cammy, and the end game isn't clear, unless just contending for a playoff spot and hoping that all the stars align is the ultimate end game.
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by ESQ »

Tiger wrote:ESQ said:
Can you imagine how different the Canucks would have been with competent management out of the gate? :sigh:
Bad luck from the getgo.. a spin of the wheel going right and we'd of got Perrault.. not Talon.. Then they only had 1 first overall pick in 40 years... and traded that away.... sigh: Unfortunately the management and team was good enough to only finish last the one time.. :(
True, but Nashville has only had one top-5 pick in 13 years, and that was Legwand at 2nd.

Also, can't really have sour grapes over trading away our only first overall pick, as it got us the Sedins instead of Stefan :lol:
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by dbr »

coco_canuck wrote:The Flames will have some cap space coming up, but depending on the cap next-season, the Flames may not have as much space as some fans think, especially after re-signing Comeau and Backlund now that they've added almost $3M on their cap with the Cammalleri move.
I haven't been watching the Flames at all this year but one look at Comeau's numbers (6 pts in 24 games getting 12-15 minutes a game.. that's pretty poor for a player without a well-rounded game) seems to suggest he's not going to be in a position to play hardball in contract negotiations.
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Re: Cammalleri to Calgary

Post by coco_canuck »

dbr wrote: I haven't been watching the Flames at all this year but one look at Comeau's numbers (6 pts in 24 games getting 12-15 minutes a game.. that's pretty poor for a player without a well-rounded game) seems to suggest he's not going to be in a position to play hardball in contract negotiations.
True, but his salary this season was over $2M, and the qualifying offer has to be equal to that. Of course they can negotiate a lower salaried deal over a longer term, but it could be a situation where they just walk away from him this off-season.

But if they intend to keep him, they'll have to pay him close to what he's making now.
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