Trade Deadline Discussion

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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Madcombinepilot » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:53 am

Congrats Farhan.

you last 2 posts are the most beautiful pieces of fence sitting I have ever read.

you should be a politician.

How can your 'ideal scenario' be one of keeping both goalies, while 2 paragraphs ahead of that you think skidding luongo is best for the team?

pick a side dude. the war will be over soon.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Madcombinepilot » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:54 am

and you still havn't said how your getting around that 'mid season starting goalie trade has never won a cup in the same year' thing yet.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Uncle dans leg » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:10 pm

So if Burke is dangling Luke Schenn, are we in the game?
I see it as the only probable trade scenario that makes sense and benefits both teams.
CBJ for Johannsen? They aren't in the race so giving up young players for young players is a lateral move.
Tampa for Hedman? No way they go there. He's 6'6" and has infinite upside. We better be prepared to throw in Cody.
MTL? They have Price.
Carolina? They have Ward.

If we do trade Cory mid-season(and I don't think we will BTW) it'll likely be for Schenn or nothing.

I personally think he still has tremendous upside. I watched him in Kelowna partnered with Weber and he was a monster. I can't help but think the Laughs ruined him by rushing him into the line up out of necessity.

As far as the whole Luongo intangible, the organization is married to Bobby Luo whether some of us like it or not. Hes more or less untradeable unless he wins us the cup, at which time we wouldn't be moving him anyway. We all better get behind him regardless because he's not going anywhere and his game is still pretty damn good after he comes out of his annual October funk. I include myself in the last sentence BTW.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Madcombinepilot » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:24 pm

with all this talk of trading Schnieder, any word on how Lack is playing in chicago?
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby ESQ » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:32 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:If we do trade Cory mid-season(and I don't think we will BTW) it'll likely be for Schenn or nothing.

I personally think he still has tremendous upside. I watched him in Kelowna partnered with Weber and he was a monster. I can't help but think the Laughs ruined him by rushing him into the line up out of necessity.

I did a double-take there, I had no idea he played with Weber, hard to believe only a couple years separates the two.

I was looking back at that 2008 Draft, and man, Hodgson is looking pretty good. There are a lot of players taken above Hodgson that are looking bad, but of course there were a bunch of players picked later that are looking huge. But if there was ever a season to get multiple first round picks, that was it. After Stamkos and Doughty, you had Bogosian, Pietrangelo, Schenn, Hodgson, Tyler Myers, Karlsson, Del Zotto, Eberle, and Tyler Ennis.

Of course, that was the year of the epic late-season collapse, couldn't really expect to go into sell mode at the deadline, but still.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Uncle dans leg » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:43 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote:with all this talk of trading Schnieder, any word on how Lack is playing in chicago?

http://www.chicagowolves.com/team/statistics
Hes not lighting it up just yet. Pretty average stats.
9 wins 9 losses 2.58 GAA and a .917 Save percentage

On a side note, whats up with Anton Rodin? 4 goals, 12 points and a minus 4 after 27 games isn't going to get him to the show.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby BladesofSteel » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:58 pm

I'm giving Rodin the same patience as I have for Cody. Dudes coming off a long nagging injury (shoulder) at the most inopportune time of his career, and it has stalled his development.

He's gaining valuable North American experience with the Wolves this year and is (unassumingly) under quality tutelage from MacT et al.

I'd be surprised to see Rodin dealt this Winter.

Schroeder might get some attention, but I suspect Gillis will hold on to this 'project' for a while longer.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:17 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote:Congrats Farhan.

you last 2 posts are the most beautiful pieces of fence sitting I have ever read.

you should be a politician.

How can your 'ideal scenario' be one of keeping both goalies, while 2 paragraphs ahead of that you think skidding luongo is best for the team?

pick a side dude. the war will be over soon.


Hahaha.

No intended fence sitting on my part. I will try and make myself clear:

My 1st choice: The Canucks keep both Schneider and Luongo this year.

My 2nd choice: Canucks trade Luongo instead of Schneider if Gillis is hell bent on trading one of their goalies for help elsewhere.

-I think it's best for the team if the Canucks keep BOTH Schneider and Luongo......but that it's best for the team if Schneider is our #1 goalie.

-Rationale for 1st choice: There is something to be said about having goaltending depth. We don't know if/when an injury will occur (case in point - Dwayne Roloson Stanley Cup Finals 2006), and there is also an advantage in knowing that a team has TWO great goalies back there. Case in point - Tim Thomas and Tukka Raask in Boston. Luongo has experience and can help Schneider just incase Schneider gets overwhelmed by the sitation (I don't see this happening, but you never know). On the flip side Schneider's presence helps eliminate a MASSIVE circus show if/when Luongo has a bad game in the playoffs.

-Rational for 2nd choice: In the Canucks' biggest and most emotional regular season game of possibly all-time, Schneider was given the nod.....and he won. Luongo is a tremendous goalie, but there's too much past history there. As we saw last year with Chicago and Boston, the moment Luongo had a terrible game and the Canucks gave up a large number of goals, they started to overcommit on defense....perhaps out of distrust of Luongo. One can argue that their offense dried up because of this.

Luongo may have a large contract and a NMC, but it's not entirely possible to trade him if the situation called for it. You are right that a team NEVER trades their #1 goalie.....only to then win a cup, but we must ask ourselves..........who is our true #1 goalie right now?

Anyway - that's how I see it.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby BladesofSteel » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:34 pm

Pengiuns smoke Tampa Bay 6-3 this afternoon, as the Lightning continue their downward spiral.

Malone pots another goal in a losing cause, putting up 6 points in his last five games.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Jovocop » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:18 pm

BladesofSteel wrote:Pengiuns smoke Tampa Bay 6-3 this afternoon, as the Lightning continue their downward spiral.

Malone pots another goal in a losing cause, putting up 6 points in his last five games.
GP:38 G:9 A:16 PIMS:35 Hits: 76


I would not mind MG trading Raymond+ for Malone. He will be a nice fit for Kesler and Booth. Higgins could go to the third line with Hodgson and Hansen.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Orcasfan » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:56 pm

By my reckoning, at this point in the season, these are the teams that will probably not make the playoffs: Edmonton, Anaheim, Columbus, Calgary (with Dallas and Phoenix leaning); also, Tampa Bay, NYI, Carolina, Montreal, and maybe Buffalo. Most of these teams would have to go on incredible, as well as improbable, runs in order to squeeze into the playoffs. :roll: Of course, there are other teams on the bubble that will certainly drop. If Gillis is going to deal before the deadline, these are the most likely teams that will be sellers.

In my mind, the Canucks' most pressing need is for a solid, tough, top-4 D-man (what else is new, ay? ;))Our D is good, but somewhat fragile! And, as we know, that fragility will be tested during the playoffs. We have good depth guys for the 5th and 6th D. Actually we have bone-fide surplus at that position! :o The problem is that all of those guys would be a bit worrisome if they had to fill in at the top 4 (this year). Of course, the problem has been Ballard (sigh). He was supposed to be a top 4 guy - and he just isn't! :shock: Unfortunately, he can only be depended upon to play regularly on the bottom pairing. And (to all those Ballard apologists), yes, he can fill in sometimes at 3 or 4. But only during the regular season!! He is just not dependable enough to be there during the playoffs.

I'm not going to belabor the Ballard trade. Suffice to say, at the time, getting Ballard (even at the overpayment) was the only certain supposed top 4 D Gillis could count on. I do think, however, that MG should have traded him during the summer or at the start of the season (MG should have listened to his coaches, and not Ballard's agent!). So, moving on with this...Ballard's underperformance has made the need for a real top 4 D critical. Salo's injury has moved it into the urgent level! :cry: So, what to do?

If you look at the rosters from the non-playoff teams (above), can you see anyone who could fulfill that top 4 D position? And, could be available for a reasonable sum? And, please, don't say Gleason! That guy is not a top 4 D on a team like the Canucks! And forget young RFA studs. Why would any (losing) team trade those assets? The pickings are few and far between! Actually, very disappointing. But, what if MG was able to trade Ballard (to an Eastern team, like Philly) for picks/prospect etc. MG would then have the cap space to actually get serious about acquiring someone like Suter! No guarantee of closing a deal, but, at least he would be a legit bidder. And, who knows, maybe Ballard could be a part of the package that gets Suter! Stranger things have happened recently. :eh:

Anyway, if anyone can come up with another bone-fide top4 D who we could trade for at the deadline, I would love to hear!
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby tantalum » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:35 pm

Well it's clear that if Ballard didn't have some sort of nagging injury that he needs to be moved. I can accept he hasn't played up to his salary. However, he IS and has been better than Alberts and Sulzer. If AV still doesn't trust him then he needs to be moved. So:

Priority #1: the canucks need another #5 guy that AV will trust.

Priority #2a: the canucks need to upgrade the 4th line wing. Weise has been fine but they need him to be the 13/14th forward and not the 12th forward going into the playoffs.

Priority #2b: it all has to do with Raymond. I like the kid. He's a very good two-way player. Great wheels. Great PKer. No grit. THe acquisitions of Higgins, Booth and growth of Hansen and Hodgson have forced Raymond down the depth chart IMO. If Gillis can find a guy that can still skate, can still be that 45-55 point guy and contribute to special teams while providing some size and physical play he should do so.

Malone could be that guy. Tuomo Ruutu is another one that comes to mind. Is it that far of a stretch for a Raymond + Ballard for Gleason + Ruutu centered deal? Cap hit going out is $6.7 mil, hit coming back is $6.55. Canes get two players that will remain Canes. Canucks get 2 UFAs but likely have a good shot of signing one or both if they fit in.

I do think it would give the Canucks more balance. Keep in mind the canucks will be very hard pressed to find a true top 4 D-man. IT would be great but they do already have 4 of them. THey can, however, get another guy like Rome who AV has some comfort playing in that role. A guy who makes the simple and safe play. Hence Gleason. Clearly I would like Suter or Weber more but I don't think they trade Weber until the summer if at all and I'm not convinced they will move Suter if they are still in the hunt for 5th or 6th place. I also think that Suter and Weber may be taking a bit of a wait and see attitude right now. If Poile makes some good moves at the deadline and shows that the owernship is dedicated in trying to get into the contender group of teams they very could stay. No question that if the Preds could spend near to the cap they would be one of the best teams in the league right now.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:50 pm

Orcasfan wrote:
And (to all those Ballard apologists)


Far be it from me to speak for anyone else but I don't think Ballard has too many apologists on this board mostly due to his underwhelming performance. What you may have is people trying to figure out why the guy went form being a real nice, edgy player in Phoenix to a guy that is unable to play to anywhere near the same level here when he should be in his prime. Maybe Pot has it right , that the guy just got fat on his fat contract and he doesn't seem to give a shit. I'm not too sure myself and it could be a combo of him getting shafted by the coach and what Potatoe said. Either way he is a better player than any of Rome , Albert or Sulzer, but at the same time he isn't a top 4 D man on a good team.

I really don't think Ballard has too many apologists and quite frankly I'd like to see him traded .
Last edited by Blob Mckenzie on Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Strangelove » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:03 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote:with all this talk of trading Schnieder, any word on how Lack is playing in chicago?


If Schneids gets dealt I'm pretty sure Gillis also picks up a solid veteran backup

(no way would rookie Lack backup Lou this season/playoffs no matter how he's playing with the Wolves).

... if that's what you meant.


,
Last edited by Strangelove on Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Strangelove » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:08 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:could be a combo of him getting shated by the coach and


'shafted' or 'shat on'?? :mrgreen:

Don't forget Ballard needs to play left side to be effective... on a team with Hamhuis & Edler... as a factor.
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