Trade Deadline Discussion

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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Potatoe1 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:49 pm

BladesofSteel wrote:Mike Brown was a serviceable player when a Canuck, but he I'm not sure he can be counted on as much of an upgrade over what we have now, Weiss.


Faster, better hitter, better fighter, better defenively.

Prety much an upgreade in every way.

Brown seems to get better the second he left town, perhaps it was a wake up call or perhaps playing with slugs like Johnson, and Hodichuck wasn't exactly good for his career.


I surely don't Iike the idea of Jonas Gustavsson as Luongo's back-up going into the playoffs this year, I would be much more comfortable with Schneider looking to get his chance.


Well sure, but you have to give to get right?

Pot, tossing the window dressing aside for a moment, would you trade Schneider for Schenn straight up? Does this improve Vancouver's chance of winning the cup?


Yes I think it does.

Schneider only helps us if he is playing and he will only play if Luongo falls on his face and loses his job. I'm not sure if we could recover from a series where Lu was terrible enough to actually loose his starting spot.

What do you think helps our chances more, an insurance policy against a "worst case scenario" or a player who fills a direct need on a nightly basis.

Trading Schneider is a risk but I'm not sure teams win cups by going the safe rout.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Orcasfan » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:07 pm

"..To dream the impossible dream.." :lol: Well, somehow I don't think MG is going to fly so high as some posters would like! There is no way (in the real world) that he is going to trade Schneids before or at the deadline! Not only do they need him as insurance during the playoffs, but, remember, the regular season is not quite over yet! :shock: In fact, there are some 37 games left to play! So, what happens if Luongo gets injured with 30 games left and no Schneids as backup? How would Lack look then? :cry: First things first, you guys. The Canucks want to have home arena advantage - as much as possible through the playoffs. Their travel miles and time are brutal over a long playoff run, and it can really help to have that home advantage! But, in order to get that advantage, they have to do very well during the rest of the season. The other contenders like Chicago, Detroit, San Jose and St Louis are not going to let up! :eh:

That being said, I would think that MG will continue to look at the possibilities around either Weber or Suter. :) Personally, I think it's Suter that will go at the deadline, whether Nashville makes the playoffs or not! The Preds are just not going to be able to afford his UFA price, and they can't afford to just let him walk come July. I have no idea what kind of price we'd be looking at for Suter...he is a UFA in July, so that has to lower it to some extent. I wonder if Poile would be interested in Ballard? :hmmm: He would probably do better in the Central division? We would probably have to add a prospect or draft pick too. Who knows...

However, I do think that MG is going to add a bottom 6 guy - for the obvious (but overstated) rough, tough element. But the guy has to be someone with decent speed and good in the D zone. :look: I smell a trade as the only sure way of acquiring someone.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:13 pm

I don't know......

For me personally, I'm too worried about letting Schneider go.....given Luongo's playoff history. I know about an hour ago, I said that I'd cream my pants if we landed Tavares (even if it mean't letting Schneider, etc. go), but I think the Canucks need Schneider at this point.

The problem with Luongo is that it will only take ONE bad playoff game for...

1) The Vancouver media to start ripping on the guy
2) Opposing fans' and media to REALLY start pouring it on......due to the PERCEPTION that Luongo is a major head case.
3) The Canuck players themselves to lose faith in Luongo (based on his past history), and potentially start to overcommit on defense...as they did against Chicago and Boston.

Long story short - Luongo may have put himself in a position where he will get absolutely lambasted in the playoffs if he screws up just once......and even the biggest NHL goaltending legends usually have a few bad games in the playoffs.

In my opinion, the Canucks need Schneider. The moment Luongo has a bad game or a bad stretch during a game, you have to play Schneider from that point onwards. I also feel that this team has more of an emotional connection to Schneider now than they do Luongo. The fact that Schneider played and won in the Canucks' biggest and most emotional game of the year against Boston, speaks volumes. At this point, I would keep both goalies.....BUT....if we had to choose to get rid of one, I'd choose Luongo.

I know that people will think I am retard for suggesting Luongo for Lecavlier, but

1) TBL is in dire need of goaltending
2) Lecavlier is in almost the exact same situation as Luongo (cap wise, age wise, team standing wise)
3) A swap of Luongo/Lecavlier would help address the needs of both teams. The Bolts get a great goalie while the Canucks get a playmate for Kesler or Hodgson, a guy that consistently raises his game when it matters most, a big physical forward with skill, and a great leader.

People talk about how Boston effectively rolled 4 lines last year. How good would our depth looked if we potentially had Sedin, Sedin, Burrows, Kesler, Lecavlier, Higgins, Booth, Hodgson, and Raymond all on our top 9?

Just saying..
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Madcombinepilot » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:49 pm

Vancouver media will rip whomever is the goalie when we have that bad game.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby cjc » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:32 pm

Schneider has to be kept. Luongo is too unpredictable and, as mentioned, just one bad game and the pressure on the guy will be relentless. He would be trying to perform in a pressure cooker and Schneider could relieve him of that, even for a game or two. The team has faith in Schneider and feels comfortable playing in front of him. He can still bring a good player in a trade but let that player come in the off season.

There are other assets that can be packaged - Raymond, Tanev, Ballard. Even Honey Badger. I'm sure Gillis would only look to tweak the team. It came within a game of the Stanley Cup and injuries really hurt. Also, If there is more vigilant reffing in these upcoming playoffs maybe things will be a bit different this year.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Madcombinepilot » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:34 pm

Also, If there is more vigilant reffing in these upcoming playoffs maybe things will be a bit different this year.


well, thats the real trick, isn't it?

We are building the team as if the refs call the SCF the same.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:51 pm

cjc wrote:Schneider has to be kept. Luongo is too unpredictable and, as mentioned, just one bad game and the pressure on the guy will be relentless. He would be trying to perform in a pressure cooker and Schneider could relieve him of that, even for a game or two.


Is it possible for a goaltender to experience any more pressure than what Luongo had to endure in game 5 of the SCF last season? Getting shelled in Boston, all momentum going the B's way, and he responds with a 31 save 1-0 shutout. Luongo will be under immense pressure until the Canucks win. It's not going to be any different this season.

I don't see the Canucks making a big splash at the deadline, nor should they. They're fighting for the Presidents trophy again, they already added Booth this season, and should be looking for a tweak to the fourth line and bottom D pairing. We need to worry about Chicago, Detroit, San Jose and (apparently) St Louis before we worry about being tough enough for the Bruins.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:55 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote:Vancouver media will rip whomever is the goalie when we have that bad game.


True, but the leash will be much much much shorter with Luongo......and as unfortunate/unfair as that may be, I think that will be the reality of it.

ONE bad game from Luongo, and........

-Our fans
-Their fans
-Our media
-Their media

will be over Lou like flies on shit. With Schneider, a bad game will just be seen as one bad game.....or an "isolated incident" if you will. Unfortunately, given Lou's history, I'm not sure if the same can be said. A bad performance from Lou in the playoffs could be the equivalent of a ticking time bomb.

Maybe it's just me, but I really do not feel comfortable in moving Schneider at all. I don't doubt that Lou will have some excellent games for us come playoff time,.......but I just get a sense that there's a ticking time bomb there waiting to explode....if Lou has even one bad game.

I think this team is Schneider's now to be honest. How can it not be?......after winning what was arguably the most emotionally charged regular season game in our history? (or atleast recent memory)
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Madcombinepilot » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:05 pm

True, but the leash will be much much much shorter with Luongo


lol... what leash?!?!? The focus on Vancouver Goalies is incredible. we have 40 years of habitual blame on that position, no matter WHO has been in net. 1 bad game by anyone, and all the media and band wagoners jump over whomever is in net.


I think this team is Schneider's now to be honest. How can it not be?.


dude... seriously?!?

One game and the team is Schieds??? Whats the reasoning behind that?
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:20 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote:
True, but the leash will be much much much shorter with Luongo


lol... what leash?!?!? The focus on Vancouver Goalies is incredible. we have 40 years of habitual blame on that position, no matter WHO has been in net. 1 bad game by anyone, and all the media and band wagoners jump over whomever is in net.


Given Luongo's history here, there will definitely be a leash on him come playoff time. You and I may not want this, but the media and the fans here WILL jump all over Lou if they see one bad game.....as will opposing teams. All of those bad memories from 2009 onwards will be magnified.

I agree with you that there tends to be way too much focus on goaltending within the Vancouver media, but that's the reality of it unfortunately. Schneider will also be criticised if he chokes or has a series of bad games, but the media/fans here will be a little more forgiving with Schneids.....for now.



dude... seriously?!?

One game and the team is Schieds??? Whats the reasoning behind that?


Just a gut feeling. Like I said - in what was our most emotionally charged regular season game in quite sometime......possibly in team history.......Schneider was chosen over Luongo to be the goalie......and he delivered. I don't know how it will play out from here on out, but I think the Canucks, as a team, just might have more faith in Schneider than they do Luongo.

It's tough to explain for me - but I just think that too much has happened with Luongo in the past for anyone to treat him fairly come playoff time. One bad goal or game and everyone will be all over him. It has the potential to become a distraction of epic proportions. And again - the same could happen with Schneider......I understand that.......but for Schneider to reach "Lou like" levels, he'd have to have multiple bad stars, etc., and/or seriously cost the Canucks a game.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Madcombinepilot » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:44 pm

no offense, I think you are part of the probltm, as opposed to offering a solution.

this typical 'gut reaction' is whats leads to the 'knee jerk' reaction taken by lots of fairweather fans, and most media.

Luongo could follow up a bad game with another rock solid 31 save 1-0 win... again. that was the most pressure that anyone has ever faced, and it will NEVER be more than that again.

Not sure how many times Lu has to prove he can handle big games. People need to wake the hell up and realize that this teams best chance to win lay with Luongo. Even if all you speculators wanted to trade him, YOU CANT -- that whole no trade clause thingy that everyone seems to convienenlty forgets.. all talking about trading him does is add to the fervor, and make him feel unwanted. singling out your goaltender is a SURE way to lose, just look at our own history to prove it.

And as to the theory that he would go if you ask him, well heck, does anyone think that he is so stupid as to WANT to be traded of a contender??

Can you name me a team that traded its #1 goalie, leader in the dressingroom, and former captain, MID SEASON and still won a cup??? Trading Lu this year is a guaranteed way to have us not win again.

Speculation is fine, but this is way past that. there is not a goalie out there that gives us a better chance to win right now.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Farhan Lalji » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:32 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote:no offense, I think you are part of the probltm, as opposed to offering a solution.

this typical 'gut reaction' is whats leads to the 'knee jerk' reaction taken by lots of fairweather fans, and most media.


Hey MC,

Don't get me wrong man. I am a huge Luongo fan. I think I even told you this last June. Even in this thread, I conceded the fact that Luongo will have many brilliant games come playoff time. Unfortunately however, the media in this city tend to focus on the negatives far more than the positives. All I was arguing was that when Luongo inevitably has a been game in the post-season (this isn't a knock on Lou by the way, ALL goalies have atleast 1-2 stinkers in the post-season), the 'frenzy' surrounding Luongo's bad game will be blown much further out of propotion....by

-The Media (ours and opponents)
-The fans (ours and opponents)
-Even our team (i.e. overcommitting on defense.....as they started doing against Chicago and Boston.....which may help explain, atleast to some degree, as to why our offense went very dry after blow out losses).

Luongo could follow up a bad game with another rock solid 31 save 1-0 win... again. that was the most pressure that anyone has ever faced, and it will NEVER be more than that again.


You are preaching to the choir man. I agree with you. Having said that - we must also not forget the fact that he followed up his brilliant Game 5 victory with one of the WORST performances of all-time in Game 6. That last minute goal during the Olympics, along with the near last minute goal he gave against Chicago in Game 7, also raises question marks unfortunately.

Long story short - even one bad game on Luongo's part could create a VERY toxic environment of epic proportions. I do not think I am even exaagerating. If we keep Schneider however, problem solved. If Lou struggles, we put in Schneider the next game.

Not sure how many times Lu has to prove he can handle big games. People need to wake the hell up and realize that this teams best chance to win lay with Luongo. Even if all you speculators wanted to trade him, YOU CANT -- that whole no trade clause thingy that everyone seems to convienenlty forgets.. all talking about trading him does is add to the fervor, and make him feel unwanted. singling out your goaltender is a SURE way to lose, just look at our own history to prove it.


Again - I have absolutely nothing against Lou. I love the guy. I have a soft spot for him. All I am thinking is what might be in the teams' best interests. Of course Lou has proven that he can handle big games. However - he has also proven that he can self destruct, big time, in big games as well. With the exception of 2010, Luongo has always been brilliant for us in the regular season. You can't deny however that he's had some very inconsistent performances in the playoffs. So - as much as I love Lou, a lot of the criticism that has been directed his way is with good reason as well.

And as to the theory that he would go if you ask him, well heck, does anyone think that he is so stupid as to WANT to be traded of a contender??

Can you name me a team that traded its #1 goalie, leader in the dressingroom, and former captain, MID SEASON and still won a cup??? Trading Lu this year is a guaranteed way to have us not win again.

Speculation is fine, but this is way past that. there is not a goalie out there that gives us a better chance to win right now.


If it was up to me, I would keep BOTH Luongo and Schneider here for this season. Hopefully, I made that clear earlier. All I am saying is that *IF* Gillis is hell bent on trading one of their goalies for help elsewhere, then they should trade Lou instead.

In my perfect scenario, the Canucks keep both goalies. If Lou shows signs of struggle in the playoffs, put Schneider in. If Schneider struggles, go with Lou. Period. I would keep this arrangement similar to what the Wings did with Osgood/Vernon in 97' (i.e. going with the goalie that is hot and riding him until he shows signs of struggle).
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby ESQ » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:55 pm

BladesofSteel wrote:Pot, tossing the window dressing aside for a moment, would you trade Schneider for Schenn straight up? Does this improve Vancouver's chance of winning the cup?

The one dman I would have really liked to get is Cody Franson. I'm really pissed that Toronto got him for a salary dump - young, big, cheap dman with tons of upside is exactly what we need.

I think this team is Schneider's now to be honest. How can it not be?.

That is just crazy.

How about this: in what way is this team Schneider's?

Luongo doesn't give two shits what the media or fans say. He went through it all after the 2010 playoffs, and responded with the best year of his career and one win away from a cup. He was also the best Canuck in the finals, and had Game 7 gone the other way he could easily have won the Conn Smythe.

I used to worry about the pressure on Luongo, but after he re-signed to finish his career in Vancouver, I breathed easy. He knew by then the sort of crap he'd put up with, he probably knew nimrods would be saying he should be replaced by a goalie with 50 NHL games (or, going back to the first time these threads popped up 2 years ago, 10 NHL games), and he did not care. I don't know how he puts up with it but he does, and he plans to put up with it for the rest of his career.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby cjc » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:28 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
cjc wrote:Schneider has to be kept. Luongo is too unpredictable and, as mentioned, just one bad game and the pressure on the guy will be relentless. He would be trying to perform in a pressure cooker and Schneider could relieve him of that, even for a game or two.


Is it possible for a goaltender to experience any more pressure than what Luongo had to endure in game 5 of the SCF last season? Getting shelled in Boston, all momentum going the B's way, and he responds with a 31 save 1-0 shutout. Luongo will be under immense pressure until the Canucks win. It's not going to be any different this season.

I don't see the Canucks making a big splash at the deadline, nor should they. They're fighting for the Presidents trophy again, they already added Booth this season, and should be looking for a tweak to the fourth line and bottom D pairing. We need to worry about Chicago, Detroit, San Jose and (apparently) St Louis before we worry about being tough enough for the Bruins.


Yes, I can imagine the pressure getting worse. Even after game 5 there was still the hope/belief that the team could win the Stanley Cup and I'm sure Luongo felt and believed it too. Fast forward to this year and all that remains in peoples' minds is the 7th game loss, the Bruins winning on our home ice and a growing desperation. If a cup isn't won soon, how long will this crop of talent remain contenders? The pressure will be way worse with every weak goal that goes in and just about every goaltender will let a few of those in through a playoff series but the ramifications for Luongo will be horrid.

I agree the Canucks won't make a big splash. Mostly because I don't think Gillis believes he needs to do anything drastic. Secondly, there isn't that much out there. Anything big would involve risking the next ten years of this franchise's player stock and that doesn't appear to be Gillis' style.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Postby Meds » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:53 am

Fred wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
Fred wrote:Oh there are goons out there that can match Chara, the question is do you want to go that far


Well the reality is Chara will see right through the attempt to goad him into a trip to the box. He'll laugh at your goon, skate away and that will be that. My gut feeling is that a healthy Canucks roster will see Chara take penalties when guys like Raymond and Booth speed around him and he's forced to take them down.


You go after another player and force Chara to either step up of see his team mate pummelled, this is not rocket science


For once Fred is on the money.

If you want to take Chara out of the equation (as much as possible anyways), you have to go after another player and hope that he steps and ends up with a 3rd man in penalty or at least the extra minor for roughing or what-have-you.

That actually goes for Lucic and Thornton too. While Chara is the guy you really want to eliminate from the Bruin's PK, goading Lucic into taking penalties serves just as well. Lucic is a force for the Bruins at both ends, but he's also a hot head who can be targeted by an opponent and suckered into hurting his team with bad penalties. He's already gaining a reputation as an undisciplined, unsportsmanlike, thug, and if he continues to repeat in those departments he will lose the benefit of the doubt and enjoy many trips to the box.

The only way to play the Bruins is to attack with speed and then single out one of their guys like Krecji, Marchand, or Bergeron and try and drag their big guys into taking retaliation penalties etc. You have to play their game to the point that they play it back and cross the line. Then Julien has to reign in his guys and they will back off and end up taking the tripping, holding, interference, and obstruction, penalties that come from making mistakes as they act indecisively on defense while trying to avoid the rough stuff calls.

By the time this season is over there is no way that the NHL will be able to allow the BS they have been permitting because nobody in their right mind is going to be giving a Bruin the benefit of the doubt over guys like St. Louis, Jagr, Gaborik, Spezza, Briere, Stamkos, Raymond, Booth, Hansen, Oshie, Backstrom, Ovechkin, or Kessel when a scrum ensues or a footrace occurs.....they can only get away with the bullshit under the guise of "they are just so big and strong" for so long before everyone starts pointing out that they are bullying guys who are known for their speed and skill mroe than their mouth, diving, and physical play on the boards.
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