Trade Deadline Discussion

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Chef Boi RD
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Chef Boi RD »

You seem to be a big fan of struggling players on other teams and not a fan of players (Schneider) who has proven in every game that he has played that he will be a good goalie. It's like "I want what I don't have and don't appreciate what I do have', regardless if what you want isn't as good as what you want to give up in return when it comes to value. Strange. Sounds to me like some sort of 'Grass is Greener on the Other Side' syndrome.

It boils down to this, Luke Schenn is an Aaron Rome type of Defenseman, is that what you want?

To me, quality young goaltending is hard to find, when you got it and you have depth in goaltending, you sit back and wait for some GM to bend over backwards and offer you up the moon just out of frustration of not having the quality goaltending. You don't give up an asset like Schneider for a Luke Schenn, when you could probably get a Luke Schenn type, in the open market.

Don't be sucked into Luke Schenns draft hype and Pro Promise back in his days of Kelowna, those days have long past Schenn. It's like when teams kept hoping for the real Steve McCarthey or whatever his name was, to show up.
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tantalum
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by tantalum »

Yes I'm a big fan of struggling players on other teams. Whatever you say. (edit: and did you seriously miss where I said I would be fine with the canucks going forward with Schneider? how does that mean I don't like him? He's a terrific young goaltender)

Schneider will be traded (or Luongo will be) at some point between now and the start of next camp. Likely between the end of the season and camp. You of course take the best deal that is available. But what deal do you think will be available? Do you think Tampa Bay is going to send Hedman, Downie and Connolly over? I don't. You are going to get a young player with promise back or you are going to find a way to package Schneider with some other pieces for a huge piece of the puzzle. However, that puzzle piece everybody wants is on a team that doesn't want a goaltender so you will likely need to move your goaltending asset for another asset such as Schenn or other promising young player to have the depth and assets to get that guy while not decimating your own system. You may not agree that Schenn is a promising player. I disagree I think he indeed has promise and lots of it, but yes he is struggling. If you read my other posts it's not a trade I really would make during the season because he is struggling and may not help the team that much now.

Schenn is 22....far to young to be talking as if he's a bust. Especially because he is a NHL player.
Last edited by tantalum on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by BladesofSteel »

tantalum wrote: Schenn is 22....far to young to be talking as if he's a bust. Especially because he is a NHL player.
Barely 22, and already 275 NHL games under his belt. He will be a terrific d-man one day, potentially a perfect complement to an offensive #1.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Strangelove »

:hmmm:

So it's agreed....

Schneids + Ballard to the centre of the universe for Schenn + Monster.

Raymond for Ruutu.

2nd for Moen.


Okay, someone send Gillis a memo....
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Canuck-One
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Canuck-One »

Wow Strangelove the only trade I might agree with on that list is a 2nd for Moen.

Raymond > Ruutu - not even close in the skill department

Schneider & Ballard > Schenn & Monster

These last two trades aren't even close. I agree with RoyalDude that Schenn has shown nothing to put his value anywhere near a Schneider's value. The Monster is nothing more than TO hype and I wouldn't trade Ballard for him. I sure hope that MG waits until some GM grabs his ankles and bends over as this kid is a #1 on most teams in this league. If MG goes hunting it will be for more help on the right side. Tanev didn't look out of his depth today but we need as many D as we can afford. For some reason our guys get hurt a lot. Personally I would like Deryk Engelland or Matt Carkner. They aren't in your top 4 but both play the right side and can both play the 5/6 spots.

Carkner from the Hockey News;

ASSETS: Is a willing combatant who takes on all comers, and an excellent teammate. Can play a sound defensive role from the back end when he keeps it simple. Can also play wing, if needed.

FLAWS: Can take bad penalties. Doesn't own enough skating speed to keep up with speedy NHL forwards. No matter where he plays, his offensive contributions are minimal.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Physical depth defenseman.

Engelland from the Hockey News

ASSETS: Has size and the physical toughness teams love. Is a willing combatant and a solid team-first player. Is also fairly steady in the defensive zone.

FLAWS: Doesn't have a lot of offensive ability, especially at the big-league level. Can be prone to mistakes when he has the puck on his stick.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Physical depth defenseman with pugilistic skills.


I would bet both Pittsburgh or Ottawa would go straight up for Ballard and while neither has Ballard's skill level , you get instant toughness and a right side Dman. Oh and yeah get Moen or Tim Jackman as well. ;-)
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Canuck-One wrote:Wow Strangelove the only trade I might agree with on that list is a 2nd for Moen.

Raymond > Ruutu - not even close in the skill department

Schneider & Ballard > Schenn & Monster

These last two trades aren't even close. I agree with RoyalDude that Schenn has shown nothing to put his value anywhere near a Schneider's value. The Monster is nothing more than TO hype and I wouldn't trade Ballard for him. I sure hope that MG waits until some GM grabs his ankles and bends over as this kid is a #1 on most teams in this league. If MG goes hunting it will be for more help on the right side. Tanev didn't look out of his depth today but we need as many D as we can afford. For some reason our guys get hurt a lot. Personally I would like Deryk Engelland or Matt Carkner. They aren't in your top 4 but both play the right side and can both play the 5/6 spots.

Carkner from the Hockey News;

ASSETS: Is a willing combatant who takes on all comers, and an excellent teammate. Can play a sound defensive role from the back end when he keeps it simple. Can also play wing, if needed.

FLAWS: Can take bad penalties. Doesn't own enough skating speed to keep up with speedy NHL forwards. No matter where he plays, his offensive contributions are minimal.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Physical depth defenseman.

Engelland from the Hockey News

ASSETS: Has size and the physical toughness teams love. Is a willing combatant and a solid team-first player. Is also fairly steady in the defensive zone.

FLAWS: Doesn't have a lot of offensive ability, especially at the big-league level. Can be prone to mistakes when he has the puck on his stick.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Physical depth defenseman with pugilistic skills.


I would bet both Pittsburgh or Ottawa would go straight up for Ballard and while neither has Ballard's skill level , you get instant toughness and a right side Dman. Oh and yeah get Moen or Tim Jackman as well. ;-)
Post of the month. Agree with your assessments of Doc's trade idea's. No offense Doc, but they suck :D . I don't get this sudden surge in popularity for Tuomo 'the bust' Ruutu. There seems to be a weird love for struggling players who were drafted high in the first round, around here like somehow all that is needed for a resuscitation of their flailing careers is a trade to Vancouver. The Schneider for Schenn trade is the worse trade request around that will not ever happen cause Mike Gillis is not that stupid.
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Strangelove
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Strangelove »

Hmphh just when it seemed we were all in agreement! :|

Okay...

Ruutu > Raymond.

Not even close.

The only reason the Canes do this deal is because Ruutu is set to become UFA, Raymond a RFA.

Schneider is 25 and played in 59 NHL games, Schenn is 22 and has played in 277 NHL games.

It's debatable which one will have the better NHL career going forward.

I believe Schenn will become everything the scouts predicted when he was taken 5th overall a few years ago.

His salary is a major bargain (4 more years @ $3.6mil) if said scouts prove to be correct.

For more on this, please scroll up. :mrgreen:

Monster is a decent backup.

Moen is da shite.

Not surprised the Raymond-loving, Schneider-loving Dude agrees with you.

He loved SchaFEAR as well when we had him. :D
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Fred »

Has Moens play fallen off ? the few times I've seen him of late just doesn't seem like the same guy. I liked what he was but is it age or playing with the Habs that's bringing him down a tad ?
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Chef Boi RD
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Strangelove wrote: He loved SchaFEAR as well when we had him. :D
Damn, I thought this one was dead and buried. :look:
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

Carkner, Engelland and Hal Gill would have trouble keeping up in the West.

Believe me I'd like to see GMMG add a prick on the ass end, but maybe he has to shift his attention to a PP guy because I've seen enough of Burrows on the point and we all know Sami will get injured again.

Realistically I could see two D-men coming in if the stars align. I don't think they have much use for Alberts and Sulzer other than as 8th or 9th D men.
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tantalum
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by tantalum »

Hot stove idiots believe Gleason will end up in Philly. Ruutu in Boston.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Fred »

tantalum wrote:Hot stove idiots believe Gleason will end up in Philly. Ruutu in Boston.
Both those teams have more Cap space for sure. I'm interested how much space Vcr has. I believe MG said we have more space than many web sites think we have, so come on Mike how much ??


Engelland is getting 16:49 TOI per game which isn't bad but likely to fall now that Letang is back
Carkner is getting 12:38 but only played 18 games
Gill 17:15
Last edited by Fred on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Chef Boi RD »

I'm not seeing any big splashes in the area of trades involving your Vancouver Canucks in my crystal meth ball before the deadline. As for the off-season, depending on how we make in the playoffs, if we get ousted early like the Flyers did last playoffs, you might see some big changes. Success or no success in the playoffs, something has got to give in the nets, can't see the logic in tying up that much money in net. We could use another quality top 4 D-man as Salo gets older. Our top 3 lines look pretty set, the 4th line needs work. I do see Salo coming back another year, the guy, when not banged up on IR looks like he could play another 4 years.

If the Canucks fail miserably in the playoffs, is trading Kesler out of this world with CoHo coming up? Could get some nice pieces in return for Kelser like on the wing and defense, packaged with Schneids or Luongo???
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Chef Boi RD »

tantalum wrote:Hot stove idiots believe Gleason will end up in Philly. Ruutu in Boston.
The Philadelphia angle makes sense. especially with Pronger down. The Bruins are the benchmark team and for teams contending in the Eastern conference they will have to be built in such a way that makes them competitive to be able to stand up to the Boston Bullies.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Strangelove »

Fred wrote:Has Moens play fallen off ? the few times I've seen him of late just doesn't seem like the same guy. I liked what he was but is it age or playing with the Habs that's bringing him down a tad ?
I haven't seen much of Les Canadiens this year, but going by what Hab fans at HF are saying...

he's still da shite!

They'd like to get something for him before he leaves. Some want a 2nd, some a little more.

Dude: Yeah I think Salo has another good year in him (3rd pairing + #1PP?)

Personally I would never trade a heart & soul Top 20 centre like Kesler.

Someone needs to move to the wing for good at some point.

If we had to trade one of em, let it be Hods says I.
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