Trade Deadline Discussion

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Diehard1
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Diehard1 »

Ballard was a #1 damn in Florida. He came in last year in the playoffs and was horrid, just awful. He couldn't even play the game, he wasn't just bad.

He's had enough games in Van to adapt and I just can't see him doing so. He plays 15 minutes a night and usually not very well. He's now played over 115 games for the Canucks - how many does he need to adjust to the system?

I'm not saying he's a bad player - he's good in a system at suits him. Unfortunately the Canucks and their puck possession game aren't it. If I'm Gillis I look to move him if somebody makes the right offer. If not? Keep him and see what he can do in the playoffs, maybe he will redeem himself.
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Jovocop
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Jovocop »

Diehard1 wrote:Ballard was a #1 damn in Florida. He came in last year in the playoffs and was horrid, just awful. He couldn't even play the game, he wasn't just bad.
He's had enough games in Van to adapt and I just can't see him doing so. He plays 15 minutes a night and usually not very well. He's now played over 115 games for the Canucks - how many does he need to adjust to the system?

I'm not saying he's a bad player - he's good in a system at suits him. Unfortunately the Canucks and their puck possession game aren't it. If I'm Gillis I look to move him if somebody makes the right offer. If not? Keep him and see what he can do in the playoffs, maybe he will redeem himself.
Ballard for sure is no No.1 defenseman on the Canucks. However, he is not as bad as you described. Did he get an opportunity to play? Yes, he did. Did AV ever give Ballard a chance to succeed?? Nope. Even today, I still do not understand AV. Yes, he won the Jack Adam and took the team (or the team took him) to the SCF. However, AV made some decisions that most of us would not understand or agree. When you have a defenseman that is capable of rushing the puck, why would you want to Burrows on the point for the first powerplay unit? You can argue that Ballard did nothing to deserve the powerplay time but what did Rome do to deserve the powerplay time? Most of us seem to agree that Rome is a 5th to 6th defenseman on this team. Why would you have Rome ahead of Ballard??

As I said before, one thing I do agree is that MG should try to trade Ballard. Not because he is bad but more for the team and him individually.
Diehard1
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Diehard1 »

I said he was that bad in the playoffs last year - he almost put the puck in his own net at one point! He has been below average since he got here.

I'm really not too sure why, I liked him a lot when he played for Phoenix. Didn't see as much of him in Florida but he played big minutes there. I don't buy the 'he is misused' stuff, every other player on the team adapts to a role and so should Keith, especially after 115 games or so. What exactly is a chance to succeed? Does he need 200 games to do it? 300? He's played the equivalent of a season and a half here already.

Personally I think Rome is ahead of Ballard because he's much safer - Ballard makes a boneheaded play once or twice a game, and Rome is less than that. I like Rome's game, for some reason he and Alberts get shit on while Ballard can't do anything wrong in the eyes of Canucks fans - it's AV's fault, he's used incorrectly, he's playing his off side, he doesn't get enough ice time, etc, etc - never mind the fact that Rome and Alberts have done the exact same things! People just have their whipping boys and those they like it seems.

Ballard seems like a great guy and I really like the way he took his demotion last year - he didn't complain at all, just tried to work through it. He fits the team from a personality standpoint, he just doesn't seem to fit the team from a play standpoint. Like I said, if Gillis can get somebody who is a better fit then Ballard can go, if not then he can keep playing his #5/#6 role as he has been doing.

We basically agree I think, except I've soured on Ballard more than you have. We both believe that it's best if he's moved, not because he's a bad player, but because he doesn't fit this team - I think it's because of Ballard, you think it's because he's not used correctly. Same idea, just different reasoning.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Fred »

I'm not saying he's a bad player - he's good in a system at suits him. Unfortunately the Canucks and their puck possession game aren't it.
Personally I think this is a big part of the discussion regarding Ballard. IMO his go to play is he likes to rush it out his own end, he likes to carry the puck. The system in Vcr is the tick tack play and the bomb up to the far blue line ( which every one is doing now :) ) Ballard seems like a square peg in a round hole. He doesn't fit and he hasn't adapted. Like other I liked him in Phx. A new postal code could turn this guys career around IMO ?????
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dangler
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by dangler »

Fred wrote: Personally I think this is a big part of the discussion regarding Ballard. IMO his go to play is he likes to rush it out his own end, he likes to carry the puck. The system in Vcr is the tick tack play and the bomb up to the far blue line ( which every one is doing now :) ) Ballard seems like a square peg in a round hole. He doesn't fit and he hasn't adapted. Like other I liked him in Phx. A new postal code could turn this guys career around IMO ?????
He's got the skating skills to back up his decisions to rush it,so I don't see how this would be a problem. It gives the other team something else to worry about,rather than just lay back and take away the passing lanes.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Fred »

It's not in the club system and leaves the other 4 skaters on the ice wondering what the Hell is he going to do next and where should I be....and yes he can rush it good...but there's never a finish and that because the other 4 are basically standing around....IMO
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Fred
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Fred »

By the way how about this. Keep Raymond trade at the draft + our first round pick for Griffin Rienhard...6'3"/200 good wheels ? or better stilll Ryan Murray :) Just dreaming I guess but we are going to need extra cap space to re-sign Cory Schneider
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Fred
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Fred »

Mondi wrote:Cory Schneider won't resign if Luongo is still here. Why would he? I guess a one year deal until he's UFA is likely, but still...if he signs for too much the Nucks will just have to move him.
He has no choice this summer although some one might up the anti with a offer sheet ? the'Nucks will match what ever the offer is
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dbr
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by dbr »

Mondi wrote:Cory Schneider won't resign if Luongo is still here. Why would he? I guess a one year deal until he's UFA is likely, but still...if he signs for too much the Nucks will just have to move him.
The Canucks could pay him $2.5m (that's more than Brian Elliot, more than Jonathan Quick, James Reimer, more than Niemi got last year after winning a Cup, more than Tuukka Rask and Jimmy Howard and nearly as much as Corey Crawford..) and still not necessarily have the league's most expensive goaltending tandem.

Three years and $7.5m is a good deal.. by the end of it he is still in his prime earning years and the Canucks are at year five of the Luongo deal - meaning that if Scheider is happy here we can trade Lou and lock in, if not he can always walk.

Meantime he is getting starts in Vancouver and he is getting them in big games against top teams.
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ukcanuck
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by ukcanuck »

dbr wrote:
Mondi wrote:Cory Schneider won't resign if Luongo is still here. Why would he? I guess a one year deal until he's UFA is likely, but still...if he signs for too much the Nucks will just have to move him.
The Canucks could pay him $2.5m (that's more than Brian Elliot, more than Jonathan Quick, James Reimer, more than Niemi got last year after winning a Cup, more than Tuukka Rask and Jimmy Howard and nearly as much as Corey Crawford..) and still not necessarily have the league's most expensive goaltending tandem.

Three years and $7.5m is a good deal.. by the end of it he is still in his prime earning years and the Canucks are at year five of the Luongo deal - meaning that if Scheider is happy here we can trade Lou and lock in, if not he can always walk.

Meantime he is getting starts in Vancouver and he is getting them in big games against top teams.
well said :rockin:
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coco_canuck
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by coco_canuck »

dbr wrote: The Canucks could pay him $2.5m (that's more than Brian Elliot, more than Jonathan Quick, James Reimer, more than Niemi got last year after winning a Cup, more than Tuukka Rask and Jimmy Howard and nearly as much as Corey Crawford..) and still not necessarily have the league's most expensive goaltending tandem.

Three years and $7.5m is a good deal.. by the end of it he is still in his prime earning years and the Canucks are at year five of the Luongo deal - meaning that if Scheider is happy here we can trade Lou and lock in, if not he can always walk.

Meantime he is getting starts in Vancouver and he is getting them in big games against top teams.
Yup, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if Schneider signed a 2-3 year contract extension that pays him north of $2M for the reasons that you stated.

Who knows how the upcoming playoffs will unfold, whether Luongo runs with the ball and delivers the cup, or if he flames out...regardless of what happens, there could be a series of repercussions that may make Luongo or even the Canucks more or less open to parting ways.

That uncertainty and the fact that Schneider is a great young goalie who betters the Canucks chances of winning by virtue of being one of the best, if not the best, second options in the NHL means a trade isn't necessarily inevitable this summer at the latest.

Eddie Lack's mediocre year in Manitoba may also incline the Canucks to keep Schneider for a couple more years.

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Schneider will be traded this summer. The Canucks would like to add another big top-9 forward and another top 4 d-man, but neither is a pressing need that must necessarily be answered by giving up their best assets. MG's position has been that unless he gets an offer he cannot refuse, Schneider will not be traded, and I don't see how MG will settle for a lesser return in the summer....unless Schneider makes it clear he doesn't want to stay here, which I'm not certain is the case.

Like dbr points out, Schneider is getting big game starts, more starts than last year and if he gets a few games in the playoffs and the Canucks win, he may not want to move if he's assured he will get about 30 starts a year and a few in playoffs with a chance of taking over the top job in Luongo struggles.

I think the Canucks are doing everything they can to keep Schneider motivated and happy in a back-up role, and it may end up paying off in the end.
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Arachnid »

coco_canuck wrote:
dbr wrote: The Canucks could pay him $2.5m (that's more than Brian Elliot, more than Jonathan Quick, James Reimer, more than Niemi got last year after winning a Cup, more than Tuukka Rask and Jimmy Howard and nearly as much as Corey Crawford..) and still not necessarily have the league's most expensive goaltending tandem.

Three years and $7.5m is a good deal.. by the end of it he is still in his prime earning years and the Canucks are at year five of the Luongo deal - meaning that if Scheider is happy here we can trade Lou and lock in, if not he can always walk.

Meantime he is getting starts in Vancouver and he is getting them in big games against top teams.
Yup, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if Schneider signed a 2-3 year contract extension that pays him north of $2M for the reasons that you stated.

Who knows how the upcoming playoffs will unfold, whether Luongo runs with the ball and delivers the cup, or if he flames out...regardless of what happens, there could be a series of repercussions that may make Luongo or even the Canucks more or less open to parting ways.

That uncertainty and the fact that Schneider is a great young goalie who betters the Canucks chances of winning by virtue of being one of the best, if not the best, second options in the NHL means a trade isn't necessarily inevitable this summer at the latest.

Eddie Lack's mediocre year in Manitoba may also incline the Canucks to keep Schneider for a couple more years.

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Schneider will be traded this summer. The Canucks would like to add another big top-9 forward and another top 4 d-man, but neither is a pressing need that must necessarily be answered by giving up their best assets. MG's position has been that unless he gets an offer he cannot refuse, Schneider will not be traded, and I don't see how MG will settle for a lesser return in the summer....unless Schneider makes it clear he doesn't want to stay here, which I'm not certain is the case.

Like dbr points out, Schneider is getting big game starts, more starts than last year and if he gets a few games in the playoffs and the Canucks win, he may not want to move if he's assured he will get about 30 starts a year and a few in playoffs with a chance of taking over the top job in Luongo struggles.

I think the Canucks are doing everything they can to keep Schneider motivated and happy in a back-up role, and it may end up paying off in the end.
Not to mention the Canucks are an Elite Team™ (as The Don™ use to argue ;) ) and that his chances the next couple of years are pretty damn good to win the big one...something that he might not be in a position to do if he is traded to a team that is rebuilding...he's not a stupid young man...nor European (Hello Christian 8-) )...the only thing in my mind is that he pulls a Welly and gets homesick for the US of A but he's young and doesn't seem to mind the hole that is VanDump :lol:
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by zephyr »

What ever happened to Steve Bernier after leaving here? I was one of the few defenders of his play. When you get past what we gave up (2nd/3rd), and the expectations for him becoming a top 6 power forward, he was a decent bottom 6 guy. Worked hard defensively, hit, and stuck up for teammates.

When he left here, he wasn't that top 6 guy we were looking for, but he was still most certainly an NHL calibre talent. Since leaving, he's been a fringe NHLer and now makes the minimum with the Devils. If we could get him for AHL fodder, I would like to see him replace Weise on the 4th line. I remember him laying some big hits during the playoffs when he was amped with energy.

Forget about his hands of stone. I am asking as a 4th line winger. Anybody interested?
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Island Nucklehead »

coco_canuck wrote: Like dbr points out, Schneider is getting big game starts, more starts than last year and if he gets a few games in the playoffs and the Canucks win, he may not want to move if he's assured he will get about 30 starts a year and a few in playoffs with a chance of taking over the top job in Luongo struggles.

I think the Canucks are doing everything they can to keep Schneider motivated and happy in a back-up role, and it may end up paying off in the end.
The guy wants to be a starter. No professional hockey player with his talent and age wants to play second fiddle. He might not demand a trade, and he might stick around, but there's no way he's "happy" being Luongo's backup.

That said, the guy has probably learned a ton from Luongo, and if the Canucks offer him a two year $5M deal he might take it. I can't see a situation where he holds out (at least publicly). I'm not totally certain, but he can become a UFA at age 27. So if the Canucks agree to pay him market value ($2.5M) he can walk away and cash in at the end of that deal.

Gillis will certainly listen to any offers presented. But I don't think he's in any rush to move CS. But I do get the feeling someone will overpay for him, especially if we win the "big one".
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Jovocop
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Re: Trade Deadline Discussion

Post by Jovocop »

zephyr wrote:What ever happened to Steve Bernier after leaving here? I was one of the few defenders of his play. When you get past what we gave up (2nd/3rd), and the expectations for him becoming a top 6 power forward, he was a decent bottom 6 guy. Worked hard defensively, hit, and stuck up for teammates.

When he left here, he wasn't that top 6 guy we were looking for, but he was still most certainly an NHL calibre talent. Since leaving, he's been a fringe NHLer and now makes the minimum with the Devils. If we could get him for AHL fodder, I would like to see him replace Weise on the 4th line. I remember him laying some big hits during the playoffs when he was amped with energy.

Forget about his hands of stone. I am asking as a 4th line winger. Anybody interested?
Definitely, I have been saying that for a long time. Bernier is not a top six on this team but he is definitely a servicable 3rd or 4th line player. His only problem being a Canucks was his contract.
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