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ClamRussel wrote:Let's also keep in mind, Miller over lack is roughly $4.5M in cap space out the window as well. Considering we already have $800k gone to Lu, that is basically a player like Moulson/Cammallerri we can't sign and also getting into Stastny territory. With all our cap room we might have lured Stastny here & our 2nd line & PP would have been hella improved...perhaps Iginla comes as well. Now we're talking playoffs as a reality. As it is all we're talking is getting a crappier draft position.
What are we doing here, rebuilding, retooling on the fly or surging for a long playoff run?
So if the playoffs aren't a reality and, as it is, being successful in them isn't...why not being in a vet backup (Brodeur) to mentor/shield Lack. Save term & cap space while giving Eddy 50% of the starts. At least he can still develop & see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Don't forget that this additional cap space is also off the table for us for a full three years.
mathonwy wrote:
Bringing in a vet WILL help Lack's development. Ryan Miller is just not the right one. Botchford made some great points in this article. I share his concern about whether or not Ryan Miller has the personality to survive in Vancouver. Miller isn't a Brodeur who has won pretty much won everything. Miller still has a lot to prove with age working against his favor. And Vancouver is a very tough market for goaltenders with attitude issues. And Vancouver's roster is chock full of question marks.
Not a good situation IMO.
Well shit, now aren't we getting nit-picky. Ryan Miller was the best UFA goalie available, and the Canucks got him. There is almost near universal consensus that Eddie Lack was not ready to start 50+ games next season, and certainly nobody thinks Markstrom is capable of 30+.
It's nice we have a vet goalie, right? That it happens to be a really good veteran goalie should be considered a good thing. Botchford is (as usual) trying to stir the pot with some fear-mongering about how the room will explode because Miller isn't ready to handle a goalie graveyard that he helps perpetuate.
ClamRussel wrote:
What makes you think he isn't capable?
His career 41 games NHL experience, where he did wear down towards the end of the season.
So the Canucks played well during that stretch?
You think 19 straight games in a shit environment is reasonable to make a realistic evaluation? 19!!
He was a rookie.
He was hurt.
I think he did just fine actually. Imagine how he'd do after healing this summer & returning to a positive environment that JB, TL & WD are providing. No Kesler drama. No Torts drama.
Island Nucklehead wrote:
Well shit, now aren't we getting nit-picky. Ryan Miller was the best UFA goalie available, and the Canucks got him. There is almost near universal consensus that Eddie Lack was not ready to start 50+ games next season, and certainly nobody thinks Markstrom is capable of 30+.
It's nice we have a vet goalie, right? That it happens to be a really good veteran goalie should be considered a good thing. Botchford is (as usual) trying to stir the pot with some fear-mongering about how the room will explode because Miller isn't ready to handle a goalie graveyard that he helps perpetuate.
You say nit picky, I say looking at the situation eyes wide open.
No, its not nice that we have a vet goalie that seems to have a chip on his shoulder and has experienced absolutely zero team success in his career because he played for one of the shittiest teams in the league costing us 6M in cap space the next 3 years considering the state our team is currently in.
We don't really need Ryan Miller and Ryan Miller really doesn't us. Which is kind of the gist of Botchford's article.
ClamRussel wrote:
What makes you think he isn't capable?
His career 41 games NHL experience, where he did wear down towards the end of the season.
So the Canucks played well during that stretch?
You think 19 straight games in a shit environment is reasonable to make a realistic evaluation? 19!! He was a rookie.
He was hurt.
I think he did just fine actually. Imagine how he'd do after healing this summer & returning to a positive environment that JB, TL & WD are providing. No Kesler drama. No Torts drama.
The bolded is exactly why we needed to sign a veteran goalie. It's too risky to ask Lack to have the weight of the franchise on his shoulders at this point.
Everyone has to start somewhere I.N.
Sure. Lack started last season behind Luongo. And he'll start this season under Miller. I don't think he was expecting to be a full-time starter as soon as this year, for a team that doesn't fashion itself a rebuilder.
Miller gives us a chance to win every night. Lack provides very capable back up play and we get to see if he really is the goalie of the future. It buys the organization time while still allowing us to compete. We were never going to hit rock bottom. Ownership would not all that.
Miller isn't the saviour but he allows us to win. I have no illusions about this. We are no where near contender status but we can compete for the playoffs. And ya it's gonna be tough. I for one don't want to watch a shit team. I want to at least have the belief/illusion we can win each night.
Advocating tanking or throwing the kids into the fire to sink or swim has never been a recipe for success. Quite different letting an NHL ready franchise player have the ice from rushing players who still need to develop take over the reigns.
Hockey Widow wrote:Miller gives us a chance to win every night. Lack provides very capable back up play and we get to see if he really is the goalie of the future. It buys the organization time while still allowing us to compete. We were never going to hit rock bottom. Ownership would not all that.
Miller isn't the saviour but he allows us to win. I have no illusions about this. We are no where near contender status but we can compete for the playoffs. And ya it's gonna be tough. I for one don't want to watch a shit team. I want to at least have the belief/illusion we can win each night.
Advocating tanking or throwing the kids into the fire to sink or swim has never been a recipe for success. Quite different letting an NHL ready franchise player have the ice from rushing players who still need to develop take over the reigns.
Yup, and why's this miller talk in the media thread?
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
ClamRussel wrote:
What makes you think he isn't capable?
His career 41 games NHL experience, where he did wear down towards the end of the season.
So the Canucks played well during that stretch?
You think 19 straight games in a shit environment is reasonable to make a realistic evaluation? 19!! He was a rookie.
He was hurt.
I think he did just fine actually. Imagine how he'd do after healing this summer & returning to a positive environment that JB, TL & WD are providing. No Kesler drama. No Torts drama.
The bolded is exactly why we needed to sign a veteran goalie. It's too risky to ask Lack to have the weight of the franchise on his shoulders at this point.
Everyone has to start somewhere I.N.
Sure. Lack started last season behind Luongo. And he'll start this season under Miller. I don't think he was expecting to be a full-time starter as soon as this year, for a team that doesn't fashion itself a rebuilder.
The weight of the franchise he could handle. Whipping him like a rented mule for 19 straight is not reasonable or conducive for evaluation.
mathonwy wrote:
The Canucks are setting themselves up for a goaltender controversy. Miller's a competitor, he's never won a Stanley Cup, and most of all, he wants to be "the man". You think at age 33 he's interested in mentoring Lack to replace him in 3 years? Fuggedaboutit.
Fuck Lack, wes gots Miller yo!
mathonwy wrote:
Lack adequately proved himself last season and I think did enough to be the starting goalie.
Ummm no.
Lack's not a starter by any stretch.
mathonwy wrote:
Now with this Miller signing, he gets dirt kicked in his face. But hey, what's new. This is Vancouver where we treat our goaltenders like shit so same old same old.
Oh you mean we "treat our goaltenders like shit" as in what you're already doing to Miller?
mathonwy wrote:
I don't like this one bit and further confuses me on whether or not we're rebuilding or retooling or aiming for the last playoff spot to go out in round 1 and draft 18th overall.
It's all good Mat, it's your constant state of confusion that endears you to so many.
mathonwy wrote:Lack adequately proved himself last season and I think did enough to be the starting goalie.
Ummm no.
Lack's not a starter by any stretch.
mathonwy wrote:
Now with this Miller signing, he gets dirt kicked in his face. But hey, what's new. This is Vancouver where we treat our goaltenders like shit so same old same old.
Oh you mean we "treat our goaltenders like shit" as in what you're already doing to Miller? .
...and just how are you & the Kool-Aid Krew treating Lack & Markstrom?
I don't think anyone here thinks poorly of Miller, it's just that's a big cap hit for a guy who comes w/ question marks...when we're in the midst of "change" and we already have very 2 promising tenders. Is it the right time to pay that much for a goalie?!? It's about timing.
On the flip side it's you guys ripping our younger goalies.
Really? You don't see Lack as a starter "by any stretch"?!? That's quite the treatment he's getting here.
We are not tanking.
We want to ice a competitive team.
We are not rebuilding.
We are changing the culture of the team while changing up the core.
We have a new plan on how to do all of that with a GM with less than 2 months on the job trying to help sell tickets.
We are not done yet.
We will see more changes, most likely you won't agree with any of them and will be left further confused.
We are not interested in the draft lottery.
We are interested in winning as many games as we can.
We want to make the playoffs
We want our younger players to develop the proper way, not be rushed, with a culture of winning.
So to recap:
We are not tanking
We want to be a playoff team
We don't want to be in the lottery race
We are re-tooling, not re-building.
Now that you know the plan, whether you agree with the plan or not, try evaluating the moves.
