Players You Hate

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GoalieDad
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by GoalieDad »

Thanks for pointing this one out Topper.
What I notice -- and agree with -- is the instinctive, on-air comment of another old goalie, John Garrett, who immediately said: "If you're going to play like a defenceman you should be treated like a defenceman." I suspect most of us goalies are on the same page with this point. Not all, but most. We have too much respect for the game "players" play (which is vastly different from the game goalies play) to think we ought to be able to insert ourselves onto their battlefield with impunity.
I also liked how Turco just simply took the hit and continued on back to his net! He didn't seem bothered or shocked or insulted. He didn't swing his stick in a childish temper-tantrum. Good for him. Good for Hordichuk too. And yes, good for Daley in standing up for his goalie. Hey, just because I think Turco made himself "fair game" doesn't mean there isn't value in the whole have-your-teammate's-back stuff. (I'll bet Miller wishes that at least one of his brothers could have become a little un-Christian on his behalf.)
Listercat
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by Listercat »

"Dad", There's contact and there's CONTACT.

Goaltenders can't evade a check as easily as a regular player because of the bulk they carry around. On many teams the goaltender is one of their "top" players. On the Turco hit he did not even go down which is surprising for Turco as he was one who liked to embellish. He was tight to the boards when Hordichuk bumped him and Hordichuk continued on after the puck.

Lucic on the otherhand stood over Miller much like Eager did on Luongo in the playoffs last year.

Running a goaltender the way Lucic did shows a complete lack of respect for the traditions of the game.
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GoalieDad
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by GoalieDad »

Just found another example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgOhl_wk ... re=related
It's Cam Jansen colliding with Carey Price.
And once again a goalie-turned-broadcaster, Darren Pang this time, immediately says of Price: "I don't know what (else) you expect to happen to you as a goaltender when you're out that far playing the puck." To which he adds: "Carey Price knew he was going to get drilled going out like that."
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KeyserSoze
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by KeyserSoze »

Topper wrote:I had originally thought Burrows or Kesler, a search shows it was Hordi

http://youtu.be/FtN3EPUXI8c

No league wide uproar over that one.
Ya this one is almost as bad imo. Hordi had time to veer off and minimize contact but he chose not to. He may have veered ever so slightly, but contact was definately still intentional.

The fact that Miller was concussed on the play (vs Turco not even looking fazed), combined with some of Shanny's recent stern punishments is likely the difference in league wide reaction.

EDIT - on the Price example Janssen was leading with his stick to poke the puck and Price closed his lane at the last second. I would chalk that one up as incidental. I have much more of a problem with the Lucic / Hordi examples.
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by GoalieDad »

Listercat wrote:"Dad", There's contact and there's CONTACT.

Running a goaltender the way Lucic did shows a complete lack of respect for the traditions of the game.
I see you're a Veteran Listercat, so I offer this with all due respect. I think that a goalie who thinks he can venture OUT of the crease like that and somehow be untouchable has no respect for the game all those unmasked men are playing.
And bless you for your service to our nation.
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Topper
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by Topper »

I look at the Lucic/Miller hit and I see Milan start holding up as soon as he looks up, the arms come up to brace Miller and he turn and stops check on Miller. I suspect the bang to the head was when Miller hit the ice.

The Hordichuck hit was open season on Turco. Marty had frustrated the Vancouver forecheck for much of the game and Vancouver, once up, decided enough was enough. I remember watching that game and it was a very deliberate act.
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dhabums
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by dhabums »

Topper wrote:I had originally thought Burrows or Kesler, a search shows it was Hordi

http://youtu.be/FtN3EPUXI8c

No league wide uproar over that one.
Lol, you have been reaching recently.
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by rats19 »

GoalieDad wrote:
Listercat wrote:"Dad", There's contact and there's CONTACT.

Running a goaltender the way Lucic did shows a complete lack of respect for the traditions of the game.
I see you're a Veteran Listercat, so I offer this with all due respect. I think that a goalie who thinks he can venture OUT of the crease like that and somehow be untouchable has no respect for the game all those unmasked men are playing.
And bless you for your service to our nation.
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dhabums
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by dhabums »

GoalieDad wrote:
Listercat wrote:"Dad", There's contact and there's CONTACT.

Running a goaltender the way Lucic did shows a complete lack of respect for the traditions of the game.
I see you're a Veteran Listercat, so I offer this with all due respect. I think that a goalie who thinks he can venture OUT of the crease like that and somehow be untouchable has no respect for the game all those unmasked men are playing.
And bless you for your service to our nation.
I guess because of the rules?

You are aware that goalies padding and mask doesn't help them in this type of play, right? A mask isn't a helmet. All the gear makes them far less mobile.

I think it will be exciting to see the next collision and then see Shanahan's reaction. Hopefully the player can "convince" Shanny he didn't mean to hit him otherwise he'll get suspended.
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Rumsfeld
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by Rumsfeld »

Turco was bumped against the boards and didn't even lose his footing.

Miller was smashed full speed in open ice and was injured as a result. These two hits have nothing in common besides the fact that a goalie was the recipient of contact in both instances.

I hope three things happen as a result of this hit: Firstly I hope it convinces goaltenders they can't play the puck way outside their crease with complete impunity. Secondly I hope it results in someone running Thomas like that this season. And lastly I hope it further exposes the double standard that certain teams and players seem to enjoy with regard to discipline. If Burrows or Kesler make that hit on Miller they are gone for six games.
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KeyserSoze
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by KeyserSoze »

Intentionally running a goalie, and accidently flipping the puck over the glass in your own end are penalized the same...love this league.
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by Benjo »

I think when coming out for a puck race like that against a Lucic, Janssen or Hordichuck as a goalie you should expect to get the worst out of that deal, and I'm not sure why you'd expect any different result. I've seen plenty of races where the goalie just lays down and stacks the pads at the last second, causing the forward to do a complete front flip and the goalie gets 2 for tripping. If I was a goalie I would handle that play on a player by player basis in the interest of self preservation, especially if I weighed 170 pounds like Miller.
GoalieDad
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by GoalieDad »

dhabums wrote:
GoalieDad wrote:
Listercat wrote:"Dad", There's contact and there's CONTACT.

Running a goaltender the way Lucic did shows a complete lack of respect for the traditions of the game.
I see you're a Veteran Listercat, so I offer this with all due respect. I think that a goalie who thinks he can venture OUT of the crease like that and somehow be untouchable has no respect for the game all those unmasked men are playing.
And bless you for your service to our nation.
You are aware that goalies padding and mask doesn't help them in this type of play, right? A mask isn't a helmet. All the gear makes them far less mobile.
Yes, I am aware. It's the only gear I've ever worn. And it's part of my reasoning relating to the way they should redefine the rule in question. Goalie equipment is self-evidently purpose specific. That is, it's designed to protect the athlete whose role it is to intentionally get hit by the PUCK, not by opposing players. That's why respect for the safety of the goaltender in his crease is -- and otta be -- mandated. It is also why (imo) the rules should mandate that goaltenders remain in the clearly defined 'safe-zone' of the crease. IF a goaltender chooses to venture beyond the crease and into the battlefield, he should do so at his own risk. As I said before, that just seems fair.
We agree their gear is not designed to "handle" the puck in "play". Their gloves, their stick make it completely unnatural. It doesn't matter that some (not Luongo) can achieve proficiency despite the inappropriateness of their equipment. Just cuz they CAN play the puck doesn't mean the rules should protect their right to do so with impunity. I understand the rule -- though ill-defined -- argues against my view. I'm just sayin that I think the rule is wrong. And for whatever it's worth, I suspect most other goalies would agree. (I've cited two on-air examples of goalies who seem to.)
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by Listercat »

Dad, Rats is right. I'm a Board vet not a military one.

That said I don't think there is a goaltender who has said they they want NO contact and I think the vids showed that. Luci had no intention of going after the puck. He of "do you know who I am" attitude was going for Miller.

I read a news story out of Boston that indicated he had been on a local Sports radio show shortly before Shanny's ruling. He was laughing about the hit and when someone chided him about the weight differential of 40 lbs he said Its more like 60 lbs.
As I said earlier he has no respect
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Topper
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Re: Players You Hate

Post by Topper »

dhabums wrote:
Topper wrote:I had originally thought Burrows or Kesler, a search shows it was Hordi

http://youtu.be/FtN3EPUXI8c

No league wide uproar over that one.
Lol, you have been reaching recently.
Hordi deliberately targeted Turco, no uproar, not even a mention of the play in the AP's recap of the game http://www.nhl.com/ice/recap.htm?id=2008021094 and the only mention is Hordichuck 2min for charging, Daily 2 for roughing.

Not for a moment was Lucic targeting Miller.

No stretch at all, Shanny the media whore made the same call on Lucic. It is only subsequently that the GM's have decided their $5million dollar men need neon tutus. It will be interesting to see where they have asked Shanny the media whore to draw the 2min, 5min, 5min and a game lines in the sand.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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