Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

[Topper]

The dynamics of it have not changed one iota in the past year.

Sure it has.

A year ago Schneider had barely played only 6 games as the back up, mostly against bottom feeders.

Nice try strawman. Starts in Red
8 games in '08-'09 when Luongo was down with a pulled groin. Cal, CBJ (Sanford started), Det (Sanford started), Min, Col, Fla, SJ, Phi (Sanford started)
2 games in '09-'10 Dal, Anh (Raycroft started)
6 games in '10-'11Car, Min, Min, Col, Buf, Chi

At that point there was basically zero chance he was going to be anything other then the back up, with a good chance of being trade bait after the season.

Cory could have started on several teams a year ago.

"Right now Schneider is not only being played over luongo but in terms of his technique, poise, and reaction time he looks ]miles better.

Than an injured Roberto Luongo. Don't ignore the fact that prior to this stint, Cory was not stealing the show either.

Having said that, I'm leaning towards Schneider as the long-term solution, and that's simply due to his age. Although he's yet to proven he can be consistently good in the regular season and playoffs as a staring goalie, but what I've seen from his ability, along with his resume and pedigree, I think it's pretty unlikely he doesn't turn out to be one of the top goalie of the league.

If smart posters like Coco are feeling like Schneider is the real deal and a better fit moving forward, is it out out of the question to speculate that some in the Canuck organization are starting to lean a little further in that direction?

I don't really disagree with Coco, that makes me smart too, but to make anything more out of who is starting tonight and why is pure Tom foolery.

[Potatoe1]

I don't really disagree with Coco, that makes me smart too, but to make anything more out of who is starting tonight and why is pure Tom foolery.

So speculating that the Canucks might go in a radically different direction because Schneider seems to be emerging as a top end goaltender is "pure Tom foolery"?

I absolutely disagree on that.

This is a big story and baring a major drop in Schneiders performance I expect it to continue.

And for good reason, it most likely ends with a massive trade, and perhaps a radical change in the make up of the team.

If that isn't worthy of discussion I don't know what would be.

Cory could have started on several teams a year ago.

Schneider's play right now is substantially better then it was a year ago.

If you disagree I'm thinking you just didn't see his most recent games.

I personally do not recall the last time one of our goalies looked so sharp.

He has improved drastically and the decision the Canucks need to make is far more difficult then it was 365 days ago.

[Topper]

So speculating that the Canucks might go in a radically different direction because Schneider seems to be emerging as a top end goaltender is "pure Tom foolery"?

Is it your reading comprehension or are you addicted to strawmen?

it most likely ends with a massive trade, and perhaps a radical change in the make up of the team.

Did you just figure out that at some point in time, Vancouver would need to make a choice between Cory and Roberto? Were you naive enough not to realize Cory has starter potential? Did you just assume Cory would walk off into free agentville come season's end without an evaluation of what is best for the team long term?

Again, this has nothing to do with why Schneider is starting tonight.

[KeyserSoze]

Call it what you will but this situation is as controversial as it has ever been.

It feels like the number of people questioning who the Canucks ichiban number one (1) goalie is is at an all time high right now.

That said, most of the level-headed people that I have talked to still feel that Lu gives us the best chance, in the here and now, to win the cup.

As Schneider continues to prove himself, the number of people who think he may be the better long term fit (if they had to pick) will increase, and that is fair, but for the rest of this season we have the ability to keep both.

So as far as this year goes, I think the Canucks keep both goalies going into the playoffs. Assuming he comes around with a strong regular season Lu will be the man going into the playoffs, but I hope that the Canucks will not be afraid to get Schneider into some playoff games.

I would love to see AV & co treat the goalie situation in the playoffs closer to the way they do in the regular season. The route to the cup is a longgg grind and with two more than capable goalies I see no reason to share a bit of the workload when necessary and ride the hot hand (whoever it may be) as they are doing currently with Schneider.

[Topper]

I personally do not recall the last time one of our goalies looked so sharp

How about Nov 24th 2010 to February 12, 2011?

[Potatoe1]

Did you just figure out that at some point in time, Vancouver would need to make a choice between Cory and Roberto?

It was never expected to be a choice between Schneider and Luongo.

A year ago Gillis and co. were still calling Luongo the best goalie in the game and Schneider was a rookie with a dozen games under his belt.

There was no choice between them just discussion over when, and what we should trade Schneider for.

Were you naive enough not to realize Cory has starter potential?

I knew he had starter potential I did not think for a second he could be a better starter then Luongo.

Neither did the canucks BTW.

Did you just assume Cory would walk off into free agentville come season's end without an evaluation of what is best for the team long term?

Again, this has nothing to do with why Schneider is starting tonight.

*Yawn*

Now you're just being obtuse.

When Schneider plays, how much he plays, and how well he plays, will have a huge impact on what the Canucks do moving forward.

If you think otherwise then it's you who is naive.

[Potatoe1]

I personally do not recall the last time one of our goalies looked so sharp

How about Nov 24th 2010 to February 12, 2011?

Clearly a small sample size but right now Corey looks quicker, more poised and better technically then Lu did last year.

And that is judging him against a very high standard.

The last 4 games have been the best Hockey he's played by a country mile. And yes I think he's looked better then Luongo did when he was rolling last year.

[Listercat]

Now you're just being obtuse

Hey that's my line !!!

[CorranHorn]

Well Rats inspired me to dive into DA pool...

The real question the MEDIA should be asking is when do you try to re-sign Cory?

The consensus would most likely be wait till the end of the season... wait to see what he's done blah blah blah. There is a chance, however, that it may too late by then. Too late in the sense that we may be painted into a corner.

Three Scenarios:

1) Cory's play comes back down to eart and in the Reg., as a tandem with Luongo while still leaving a significant portion of the season to Luongo, does very well and we do as well as we did (to some degree) as last year in da postseason.

He's got three options. One year deal get to UFAcy(going to arbitration in my opinion does the same thing here that's why i didn't mention this as an option). Iron out a deal that would see him accept a role on a cup contending team with a strong goalie tandem.

Conclusion: Were not as painted in this scenario, so if his play flattens out a bit were "fine". (This scenario also takes into account Luo come into the form he has played the last 2 years... just in case there's any confusion.... PLAYING WELL)

2) The play we've seen over the past 4 games stays pretty consistent and he becomes one of the better goaltenders in the league, playing the majority of the games in the Reg. and going as far in the playoffs.(making all things equal in both scenarios).

Here the Canucks Organization would, IMO, be painted in. If Cory can show that he belongs in the "Elite" status of NHL goaltenders (or at the very least a starting Goaltender) then his RFA status at the end of the year is going to put us in a pickle. We really have to think about how other team's GM's are going to see our situation.

The fact that we have Luongo for another 10 years, with a STUD(remember scenario #2) as a current RFA is going to leave most GM's thinking that they can low ball any type of deal that GMMG and co. may try to conjure up. Or at the very worst they are going go try to Offer sheet the American net-minder from us.

So the point of rehashing all this?

Trying to see if the risk of getting a deal done early is worth avoiding a situation where we lose value on two great hockey players.

[Groovypippin]

I don't really get what all the angst is about. Didn't Tim Thomas lose his starting position to Tukka Rask for a year and then win it back. We have two good goaltenders. Ride the one playing the best and to hell with hurt feelings or contract size.

[rats19]

I don't really get what all the angst is about. Didn't Tim Thomas lose his starting position to Tukka Rask for a year and then win it back. We have two good goaltenders. Ride the one playing the best and to hell with hurt feelings or contract size.

I hear you groovster..but one of ours is possibly weak mentally..

[Topper]

Now you're just being obtuse.

Acutely. I believe anyone who has not thought of Cory staying and Roberto moving as a possibility has been thinking with blinders on. Weather it happens or not has too many variables to speculate on, but the possibility has long been apparent.

Still this has nothing to do with tonight's start and yesterday, you said yourself, that you did not expect Cory's stellar play to continue much longer.

[Todd Bersnoozi]

I'm happy with the play of Schneids and he's playing well, but his opposition hasn't exactly been the greatest. His streak started against Ottawa and he got SOs against Colorodo and Phoenix (not exactly powerhouses). San Jose was a good test and he won in a close contest. Now we got Columbus, Nashville, Calgary, Colorodo, Montreal, and Ottawa again coming up, all these teams are farily weak whom the Nucks should beat. We don't play a tough team like Detroit till like Dec 21st. Lou could be sitting for a long time.

[rats19]

Well Rats inspired me to dive into DA pool...

The real question the MEDIA should be asking is when do you try to re-sign Cory?

The consensus would most likely be wait till the end of the season... wait to see what he's done blah blah blah. There is a chance, however, that it may too late by then. Too late in the sense that we may be painted into a corner.

Three Scenarios:

1) Cory's play comes back down to eart and in the Reg., as a tandem with Luongo while still leaving a significant portion of the season to Luongo, does very well and we do as well as we did (to some degree) as last year in da postseason.

He's got three options. One year deal get to UFAcy(going to arbitration in my opinion does the same thing here that's why i didn't mention this as an option). Iron out a deal that would see him accept a role on a cup contending team with a strong goalie tandem.




Conclusion: Were not as painted in this scenario, so if his play flattens out a bit were "fine". (This scenario also takes into account Luo come into the form he has played the last 2 years... just in case there's any confusion.... PLAYING WELL)

2) The play we've seen over the past 4 games stays pretty consistent and he becomes one of the better goaltenders in the league, playing the majority of the games in the Reg. and going as far in the playoffs.(making all things equal in both scenarios).

Here the Canucks Organization would, IMO, be painted in. If Cory can show that he belongs in the "Elite" status of NHL goaltenders (or at the very least a starting Goaltender) then his RFA status at the end of the year is going to put us in a pickle. We really have to think about how other team's GM's are going to see our situation.

The fact that we have Luongo for another 10 years, with a STUD(remember scenario #2) as a current RFA is going to leave most GM's thinking that they can low ball any type of deal that GMMG and co. may try to conjure up. Or at the very worst they are going go try to Offer sheet the American net-minder from us.

So the point of rehashing all this?

Trying to see if the risk of getting a deal done early is worth avoiding a situation where we lose value on two great hockey players.

What are you nuts??? i kid...I kid...

its certainly an interesting scenario.. if I had my druthers..

I would keep them both as is 1a 1b whatever until Lack is ready then make the BIG deal...if schneids is still a1 then we get big returns...if Lou is ready to go...we get big cap space which gives big returns...how utterly awesome can this really be? only time will tell. and of course going on and on and on about it...thats good too..

[Potatoe1]

Now you're just being obtuse.

Acutely. I believe anyone who has not thought of Cory staying and Roberto moving as a possibility has been thinking with blinders on. Weather it happens or not has too many variables to speculate on, but the possibility has long been apparent.

Over the past 365 days keeping Schneider over Lu has gone from a minuscule possibility, to arguably the best scenario.

To deny that nothing has changed over that period of time is totally absurd.