Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

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Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby Cornuck » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:29 am

I think that in order to keep some of the other threads on topic, we should have a full blown Luongo thread.

Is he a great competitor or a flakey head case?

Does he deserve every start or should Schnieder get a chance to play for the #1 spot?

Best goalie we've ever had or just an overhyped B grade goalie?

If you were the GM, what would you do with him? Keep him or gently suggest that he might be better off in a small market like Florida?
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby KeyserSoze » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:20 am

coco_canuck wrote:
Meds wrote:Luongo needs a fresh start somewhere, maybe in Chicago playing for the Wolves. At this point, especially following games 6 and 7 against Boston, I would put him on Waivers to the AHL and be happy for the compensation if a team like Phoenix claimed him. Just the fact that we'd have his cap space clear would be worth it for next year. (Yeah, I know, it's way to early to be talking next year already).....


Waiving Luongo?

You're actually being serious?

Unfortunately, based on some of his other posts as of late, I would say the answer is yes.

:roll:

People are losing their freaking minds right now.

We're only 6 games in with Schneider already getting two starts, and Luongo is on the shortest leash (by the fans) he has likely ever been on...I guess that's what getting to game 7 of the SC finals does?

He has shouldered far too much of the blame for the loss to the Bruins but I pin it EQUALLY on the Sedins and Kes (who's combined point total in the series was less than the 40-something-year-old Mark Recchi). The Canucks managing to score just 8 goals in 7 games is not even close to good enough.

These bitter feelings are clearly carrying into this season.

I understand that Luongo can put the crowd on edge and he does deserve some criticism for his inconsistent play, but some people are going overboard. Anyone who follows the Canucks should understand by now that for whatever reason Lu sucks balls in October...so let's take a deep breath and see if he can turn his game around by this time next month. If he doesn;t, then let's reassess at that time.
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby dhabums » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:23 am

He's a great goalie whose arrogance and unlikability will always garner him some extra hate. He seems a tad stupid too.

As for moving him, if the right offer was there I'd trade anyone. He is no different. Every single year a team wins the Stanley Cup. None have need Luongo in net, but a couple have benefited from playing against him. Roberto isn't necessary for us to win, goaltending is, and he certainly isn't the only option.
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby Ropesauce » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:25 am

good idea corny,

The legend of the return of the planet of the goalie graveyard!!!!

Is he a great competitor? hmmmmm ,he works his ass off,usually takes the highroad in interviews,I'd bet the farm that winning a Stanley cup is on his bucket list,but his untimely bad goals won't let me give this a %100 yes

does he deserve every start? definately not.I fully expect Schneiders workload to increase this year and Luongo will have a much shorter leash in the playoffs if Schneider shines.

Best goalie we EVER had? I only started following the Canucks in the late '80's but he's the best by a longshot that i can remember and Schneider as backup is right up there for the best IMHO

I don't think Gillis will have to worry about what to do with him if he loses his position as starter,he will want to move on at that point.but probably to a contender(Mtl. if Price tanks?) as opposed to a pretender (Fla.).If he does go to Florida to be close to the sun and the in-laws then his great competitor status takes a major slide

In regards to the lou-boo in the Rangers game and the tabloid headlines yesterday:

I like how his teamates stood up for him yesterday & AV announced lou would be starting the next game(very un AV like)

I think this could be a sink or swim season for Luongo
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby KeyserSoze » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:39 am

dhabums wrote:He's a great goalie whose arrogance and unlikability will always garner him some extra hate. He seems a tad stupid too.

As for moving him, if the right offer was there I'd trade anyone. He is no different. Every single year a team wins the Stanley Cup. None have need Luongo in net, but a couple have benefited from playing against him. Roberto isn't necessary for us to win, goaltending is, and he certainly isn't the only option.

Bingo bango bongo!
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby coco_canuck » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:16 am

Some good posts by Keyser and dhabums.

I'm not against trading anyone on the roster as long as what we get in return makes the team better.

KeyserSoze wrote:The Canucks managing to score just 8 goals in 7 games is not even close to good enough.


See, if the Canucks offense wasn't that futile last year, if the Canucks were healthy and deep enough in 09-10 against Chicago, if the Canucks had the depth and speed to keep up with the Hawks in 08-09, then yes, I'd be there booing Luongo for being the sole reason this team has looked bad when getting eliminated.

Does that mean he shouldn't be held accountable?

I don't think anyone is saying that, but his struggles have been no more pronounced than any other key Canucks skater.

If Luongo was as bad as some are saying, he wouldn't have more wins (regular season and playoffs combined) since the lockout. If Luongo was such a sieve, he wouldn't have two vezina nominations over the past 6 years, he wouldn't be a perennial all-star and he wouldn't rank in the top 5 of virtually every goalie stat over the past 6 years.

Whether you personally dislike Luongo or think Schneider is better or if you want him gone, it's ludicrous to suggest this guy isn't an elite goalie that can be the best in the world on any given night.

I implore those who think Luongo struggles more than any other elite goalie in the playoffs to look at the Miller and Lundqvist have done in the post-season the past 6 years. Look at how many first round exits those guys have, look at how Miller was pulled in game 7 against Philly last year, and other big games where he has been ventilated and pulled, look at how Lundqvist has had hellish numbers in a series the way Luongo has had as well as some of his struggles in elimination games.

The Luongo everyone seems to rank below Lundqist and Miller has more playoff wins and playoff series wins than those two goalies. Did you know Lundqvist has never been past the second round?

I'm not saying Luongo is significantly better than those two, nor am I diminishing the ability of Lundqvist and Miller, but the simple truth is, Luongo has been a more consistent and better statistical goalie than those two in the regular season and he has accomplished more than those guys in the playoffs.

You can certainly make an argument that those two guys are better than Luongo, I may not agree, but it's certainly a valid suggestion. But even if they are better, they're only marginally so, the same way Luongo may only be marginally better.

But don't let truth and facts get in the way of this witch trial.
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby Zedlee » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:29 am

I HATE Mike Gillis....for giving RL that contract.

The day the deal was announced I thought...wtf!...that deal is trouble. And nothing has changed my mind since.

I don't care if the "cap hit" is reasonable...the front end money, combined with his inconsistent play, makes Luongo untradeable. At least until the "out" clause kicks in after year 5. We're in year 2 with 3 more to go. All the while our core players are in their prime and the window to win the Cup is closing. And we will likely lose Cory Schneider who deserves a shot at being a number 1, somewhere at some point.

Face it folks...we are stuck with a 32 year old goalie that is slowly but surely in decline. Prone to untimely mistakes, gaffes and soft goals at the worst of times, and it's highly unlikely that his play will improve from here.

I pray that RL gets hot again in the playoffs and we manage to win the Cup. But I'm not at all confident.
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby KeyserSoze » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:42 am

Zedlee wrote:Face it folks...we are stuck with a 32 year old goalie that is slowly but surely in decline. Prone to untimely mistakes, gaffes and soft goals at the worst of times, and it's highly unlikely that his play will improve from here.

You do realize that in last years regular season he posted his best GAA, Save % and winning % ever as a Canuck...

And helped get the team to game 7 of the SCF

You're right though...SURELY in decline and HIGHLY unlikely.

:roll:
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby Zedlee » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:26 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:
Zedlee wrote:Face it folks...we are stuck with a 32 year old goalie that is slowly but surely in decline. Prone to untimely mistakes, gaffes and soft goals at the worst of times, and it's highly unlikely that his play will improve from here.

You do realize that in last years regular season he posted his best GAA, Save % and winning % ever as a Canuck...

And helped get the team to game 7 of the SCF

You're right though...SURELY in decline and HIGHLY unlikely.

:roll:


GAA and winning % are TEAM stats. Good team, good stats. I'll give RL credit for a good save %, that one does reflect a goalie's performance.

But whatever....the regular season doesn't count anyway. Playoffs is all that matters and we want the Cup. And RL was outplayed in 3 of the 4 series last year (by Crawford, Rinne, and Thomas) and I'm getting sick and tired of seeing our $10 million man outplayed by the guy at the other end when it counts.
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby KeyserSoze » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:03 pm

Zedlee wrote:
KeyserSoze wrote:
Zedlee wrote:Face it folks...we are stuck with a 32 year old goalie that is slowly but surely in decline. Prone to untimely mistakes, gaffes and soft goals at the worst of times, and it's highly unlikely that his play will improve from here.

You do realize that in last years regular season he posted his best GAA, Save % and winning % ever as a Canuck...

And helped get the team to game 7 of the SCF

You're right though...SURELY in decline and HIGHLY unlikely.

:roll:


GAA and winning % are TEAM stats. Good team, good stats. I'll give RL credit for a good save %, that one does reflect a goalie's performance.

But whatever....the regular season doesn't count anyway. Playoffs is all that matters and we want the Cup.

In this market GAA and winning % are only considered "team" stats for Luongo when they are good...hence some people referring to both of these numbers as ammo when complaining about him after just 4 starts.

I agree that he has room to improve his consistency in the playoffs...who wouldn't.

But his career numbers in last years regular season do not show me a goalie that is "slowly but surely in decline", or that it's "highly unlikely that his play will improve from here". This is nonsense and you are strictly going by feelings and not much else.

Zedlee wrote:I'm getting sick and tired of seeing our $10 million man outplayed by the guy at the other end when it counts.

If it makes you feel any better Luongo's actual salary this year is $6.7M and cap hit is $5.3M (8th highest among goalies).

As for getting outplayed when it counts, when it counted the absolute most we had about $17M (Sedins & Kes) that got outplayed by a $1M 40+ year old man Mark Recchi.
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby dhabums » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:22 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:
Zedlee wrote:Face it folks...we are stuck with a 32 year old goalie that is slowly but surely in decline. Prone to untimely mistakes, gaffes and soft goals at the worst of times, and it's highly unlikely that his play will improve from here.

You do realize that in last years regular season he posted his best GAA, Save % and winning % ever as a Canuck...

And helped get the team to game 7 of the SCF

You're right though...SURELY in decline and HIGHLY unlikely.

:roll:


His back up put up some pretty lofty numbers too, playing behind the exact same team.

He is certainly in decline from his best hockey. We saw RL at his best in his first season here, both regular and playoff.

--

Chris Higgins also helped us to game 7. So did Torres. When Luongo CARRIES us through a series I'll be impressed. When we win a playoff series despite being the 2nd best team I'll be impressed. Those are the marks of great goaltending performances. They are not rare, just rare for us. As it sits, he can brag about his Roloson/Kiprusoff like greatness when the games truly matter.
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:31 pm

I'm not surprised that people question Luongo's ability to steal games and his ability to take over series in the way Thomas did last year or Roy did in the past...

I am surprised at the vehemence of the exodus off the Luongo band wagon, however.

Perhaps some need a reminder of what being stuck with a bad goalie is really like, imagine the record the Canucks would have had if Cloutier were still in nets here. Now there is a player who deserves the things that people are saying about Luongo. This "goalie graveyard" (fuck thanks Burke) should know what a truly bad goaltender looks like, we've had enough of them over the years.

In forty years the list isnt exactly brimming with Vezinas winners or Hall of Famers

Alex Auld
Murray Bannerman
Martin Brochu
Richard Brodeur
Gary Bromley
Bruce Bullock
Sean Burke
Frank Caprice
Jacques Caron
Dan Cloutier
Ed Dyck
Ken Ellacott
Bob Essensa
Mike Fountain
Troy Gamble
George Gardner
John Garrett
Glen Hanlon
Johan Hedberg
Rick Heinz
Corey Hirsch
Charlie Hodge
Arturs Irbe
Jason LaBarbera
Ken Lockett
Roberto Luongo
Drew MacIntyre
Cesare Maniago
Bob Mason
Dave McClelland
Steve McKichan
Kirk McLean
Rob McVicar
Alfie Michaud
Tyler Moss
Mika Noronen
Maxime Ouellet
Félix Potvin
Andrew Raycroft
Curt Ridley
Dany Sabourin
Curtis Sanford
Cory Schneider
Corey Schwab
Petr Skudra
Gary Smith
Garth Snow
Kevin Weekes
Steve Weeks
Kay Whitmore
Dunc Wilson
Wendell Young
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby Zedlee » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:40 pm

Zedlee wrote:Luongo's actual salary this year is $6.7M and cap hit is $5.3M (8th highest among goalies).

As for getting outplayed when it counts, when it counted the absolute most we had about $17M (Sedins & Kes) that got outplayed by a $1M 40+ year old man Mark Recchi.
[/quote][/quote]

I stand corrected...$6.7 million this year and for the next 7 years. Still pretty big money and enough to scare away potential trade partners if there are any.

Regarding the Sedins: they were no shows in the finals. But we all saw what happened: the refs inexplicably threw away the rule book in the finals and allowed the Bruins to brutalize our best players. That wasn't the case with Luongo.
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby Cornuck » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:03 pm

When it comes to Luongo, I'm really torn. I know that he is the best goalie, day in - day out, that this team has had. But I get so frustrated watching him play sometimes. The breast-stroke saves, the diving, the perceived (wrong or right) chokes - it makes it hard to watch.

But on an average night, he's pretty damned good. Big, plays the angles well, decent reflexes, below par puck handling. Good package that a lot of teams would like to have. Right now, he's the 9th highest paid goalie. I think the "Overpaid" remarks are pretty much invalid now.

One "problem" is that we are blessed to two great goalies right now. Schnieder could be starting on a number of teams, and until he shits the bed in the playoffs, he's our golden boy. I think that most of the frustration comes with watching Luongo have his "Mr October" moments when we have a great, young goalie sitting on the bench. It's also tough knowing that we can't have both next year (unless Gillis works some magic). So we look at Luongo as an albatross that is costing us our next franchise goalie.

If you're a GM, you have two options: work your #1 or make the goalies fight for the right to be #1. If we have a battle for top spot, and Schnieder wins it, then you have a huge problem. You're stuck with $5 million backup and his salary is a problem. You couldn't move Luongo for much at that point, even if he waved his NTC.

One other point is that someone mentioned Schneider's great stats playing behind the same team. Last year, they had identical stats. The year before that, we resurrected Raycroft's career and he had slightly better stats than Bobby Lu. The year before that (08-09) we had LaBarbera and Sanford who had decent numbers for backups, but didn't really challenge Luongo. Same goes for the other years before that with Sanford & Sabourin. What I'm saying is that Luongo really hasn't stood out for the past 2 years (stat wise).

As a fan, I like watching Schnieder play a lot more than I like watching Luongo. I'd also rather see Schnieder here long term, but I just don't see that happening. I don't have the hatred of Luongo that many others have, but I don't want to see him as our #1 in 3 years.
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Re: Official Luongo Hate / Love Thread

Postby Ropesauce » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:20 pm

Cornuck wrote:When it comes to Luongo, I'm really torn. I know that he is the best goalie, day in - day out, that this team has had. But I get so frustrated watching him play sometimes. The breast-stroke saves, the diving, the perceived (wrong or right) chokes - it makes it hard to watch.
.


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