Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

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Fred
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by Fred »

You're right. First we need to go out and find some giant lug who can barely skate, let alone play hockey.
Come on NO ONE has suggested that, no one!

But I think we all understand that it's not just a matter of he shoots he scores. A roster full of Sedins and Raymonds is not going to win the Cup. Most understand right or wrong, the rules change in the play-offs. You have to have a cross section of hockey skills. The finest of example of that was the Vcr World Junior finals when Downey put a terrific hit on Malkin, the Russian team folded it's tent and never contended after that hit.
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by sagebrush »

dbr wrote:
Canuck-One wrote:Now that the Canucks have been shown to back off when confronted.....
You're right. First we need to go out and find some giant lug who can barely skate, let alone play hockey.......
Someone like, say, Andrew Peters. :)
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

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Fred wrote:I'm not as a rule a Don Cherry fans, but he brought some thing up about a month ago on 1040. He said when Eager crossed checked Daniel into the boards head first and there were no repercussion from either the league of the Vcr team, many GM's & coaches took note. As a result Boston dressed Scott Thornton and played him on a regular shift and between him and Marchment they played havoc with the Canucks. So the old addage that these mariginal player are in the press box in the play-offs is not exactly the case any more. Like I said I'm not a DC fan his read of the series but it did have a degree of truth
I only partially agree w/ Grapes on that one. If it was the Eager hit that tipped them off then why didn't they dress Thornton until game 3? ...perhaps they saw in the first 2 games that nothing was being called and it was open season. The Eager thing just proved the Canucks would do nothing but be submissive. Still amazed the NHL didn't suspend Eager...was a no-brainer (in more ways than one).
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by Fred »

Cherry reckoned that was when Boston figured out the Vcr PP...they didn't have a any fear of it and decided to rough up the 'Nucks at that time and they dressed Thorton
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by coco_canuck »

Fred wrote:they didn't have a any fear of it and decided to rough up the 'Nucks at that time and they dressed Thorton
Well no shit, that was the obvious game plan when the Canucks PP hit the tank.

But what's with all this talk that Thornton is somehow just a plug?

He played 79 games this past season at 10 minutes per game and scored 10 goals. All year he was a very effective and solid 4th liner.

The only reason he didn't play in the first two games against Vancouver was the Bruins decided to go with more skill to match Vancouver.

After going down 0-2, the Bruins realized the only way they were going to win was to use their physical advantage and hope the Canucks PP stayed dormant.

Contrary to popular, and archaic, belief the Canucks didn't lose because they were intimidated by the Bruins, they lost because they couldn't score on the PP and had too many injuries.

It wouldn't have mattered if we had Boogey man on the 4th line, the Bruins would have kept taking liberties and penalties as long as the Canucks couldn't answer on the PP. As long as the Canucks didn't have any part of their offensive game, they weren't going to beat Boston. Even if they had a ton of tough guys on the 3rd or 4th line, they would still lose because those players don't give you the offense this team was lacking.

Earlier you talked about Downie's hit at the WJHC, when talking about more toughness on the 4th line, but you fail to realize Downie is a pretty good fucking player. Of course we would like to have a player who has that type of an impact, but if you're expecting something similar from anyone on our 4th line then you really are delusional.

We need more toughness in the bottom 6, but borderline 4th liners won't magically help this team win a cup. They will help, but the real change needs to come from having more scoring depth and better health in the playoffs.

And the argument that having more tough guys means your team will be healthier is a crock of shit. Injuries happen all the time, the Penguins with all their tough guys last year still had devastating injuries, and the same goes for Philadelphia.
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by Canuck-One »

Cornuck wrote:
Canuck-One wrote:Now that the Canucks have been shown to back off when confronted, this will be every teams response. We have to get a nuclear deterrent and fight back. Marchand will have to have his head handed to him the next time we play...
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A nuclear deterrent for this guy? Anyone one the team could have taken him - IF they got the green light. Do you think the team was afraid of this guy?

As for the others - we shouldn't need to goon it up. Would having Rypien last year have won us the Cup? As much as I like him, I don't think he would have been a factor on the scoresheet or in the PIM stats.

We need big guys who can play and drop them once and while when called upon. We needed a power play that scared the Bruins - not a knuckle dragger.
Apparently we do as none of Daniel's teammates had the courage to take on this giant of a man. Would it have been better to have Rypien on the fourth line against Boston? I don't know, but I do know that I wouldn't have to keep hearing about what a gutless team the Canucks are.
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by Canuck-One »

After going down 0-2, the Bruins realized the only way they were going to win was to use their physical advantage and hope the Canucks PP stayed dormant.


I certainly agree with this part of your statement. So wash faces, hit to injure and punch in the head. No call from the refs. At last out comes the Canucks fighter to retaliate..wait there is no one! That is the main reason we lost. Bullied and physically beaten. Were there injuries? Of course there were, but as every team will tell you, you can't use that to explain away your loss.
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

I like a physical team as much or more than the next guy but they have to be able to play. Assholes like Boogard etc are useless. Give me a Jared Boll type and an Engelland or a Carkner and we're stylin' . Chris Neil is another decent tough player.

As much as the Canucks got bounced around and their PP stunk they also came unglued and acted like punks on the ice. They say they want to emulate the Wings but they looked like a bunch of clowns on the ice when things heated up. The diving has to stop, the whining, biting and hair pulling needs to stop and most of all if you aren't built to participate in the scrums and the fighting then skate the fuck away!!!
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by ClamRussel »

coco_canuck wrote:Contrary to popular, and archaic, belief the Canucks didn't lose because they were intimidated by the Bruins, they lost because they couldn't score on the PP and had too many injuries.
One could easily make an argument that they never received 50+% of the PPs that they deserved as well. They turned the other cheek (to their own demise) and were not rewarded one bit for taking the high road. The majority of their PPs and Bruin penalties came when the game(s) were long over and in the dying moments. When the game was on the line the Canucks received little to no PPs. Not that they would have scored anyways but thats besides the point.
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by BladesofSteel »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: As much as the Canucks got bounced around and their PP stunk they also came unglued and acted like punks on the ice. They say they want to emulate the Wings but they looked like a bunch of clowns on the ice when things heated up. The diving has to stop, the whining, biting and hair pulling needs to stop and most of all if you aren't built to participate in the scrums and the fighting then skate the fuck away!!!
Fuck do I ever hate this about this club. There were actually times during the playoffs where I myself hated the Canucks and the way some of them carried themselves.

The lack of integrity must come to an end. It is my own opinion that, aside from the rash of injuries, the lack of discipline and honor was the main undoing of this club in June. The sideshow acts were sickening.

There, I said it.
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by ClamRussel »

Agreed 100%!
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by coco_canuck »

ClamRussel wrote: When the game was on the line the Canucks received little to no PPs. Not that they would have scored anyways but thats besides the point.
Yup, one of the most infuriating aspects of the finals was the atrocious officiating. As you alluded to, the PP totals are incredibly misleading.

I've already talked about this enough and it doesn't need detailed repetition, but NHL officiating is completely insensible late in the playoffs and in big games. Officiating is volatile to begin with, so expecting solid consistency isn't realistic, but these dramatic swings are ridiculous.
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by ClamRussel »

coco_canuck wrote:
ClamRussel wrote: When the game was on the line the Canucks received little to no PPs. Not that they would have scored anyways but thats besides the point.
Yup, one of the most infuriating aspects of the finals was the atrocious officiating. As you alluded to, the PP totals are incredibly misleading.

I've already talked about this enough and it doesn't need detailed repetition, but NHL officiating is completely insensible late in the playoffs and in big games. Officiating is volatile to begin with, so expecting solid consistency isn't realistic, but these dramatic swings are ridiculous.
NHL playoffs officiating paradigm needs an enema.
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by ESQ »

BladesofSteel wrote:

The lack of integrity must come to an end. It is my own opinion that, aside from the rash of injuries, the lack of discipline and honor was the main undoing of this club in June. The sideshow acts were sickening.

There, I said it.
I may be a homer, but I simply didn't see it. So after reading this, I went on Youtube and tried to find the most egregious examples of diving by the Canucks, expecting to get schooled by the angry little haters. But I didn't. Here's a prime example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnY_foVY ... re=related - Lucic does the can-opener on Burrows, his stick is clearly behind Burrows' leg, and the video is titled "The super diver".

Then there was this 2 minute montage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urIlWcdT6i4
It seems to have been taken from at last the past 2 years. At 24 seconds, you get Sammy getting speared by the goalie, and that's a dive? At 1 minute, Kesler gets a stick to the hands. At 1:28, Henrik getting a two-handed over-the-head slash on the hands.

I can admit, there are some dives in there, particularly Henrik and Luongo. But any time Burrows goes down, its automatically called a dive. Obviously he's suffering from the boy who cried wolf, much like Downie who took a diving penalty on a hit from behind that knocked him out of 2 games in the second round. But if, over the course of 2 years, 2 minutes of slo-mo replay is the worst that anybody can actually, y'know, prove....

And just for reference, here's a nice little compilation of Bruins dives from the 2011 playoffs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WigPio6W ... re=related

The Canucks are the most skilled team in the league, no other team could skate with them, so its only natural that other teams break the rules more often against the Canucks just out of necessity/desperation. I do not agree that the Canucks embellished more than most other teams, but I do believe that Canucks had more legitimate penalties against than almost all other teams.

Every team embellishes, because nobody wants to suffer illegal contact for naught. Every team has people that dive. But I am so sick of people saying the Canucks are killing the integrity of the game. Read the rulebook - slashing, spearing, cross-checking, hits from behind, trips, (apparently) 10 punches to the head are all against the rules for a reason: they make the game less safe.

I do not agree that all other penalties somehow carry more "integrity" than diving.

I'm open to being swayed to the other side, but with the vast number of Canuck-haters out there, how has nobody proven this to be the case?
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Re: Canucks have signed Owen Nolan and Todd Fedoruk to PTO

Post by dbr »

Fred wrote:Come on NO ONE has suggested that, no one!
What does "nuclear deterrent" mean to you? To me it means Zdeno Chara or, some guy who can't play hockey. It seemed pretty obvious to me.
But I think we all understand that it's not just a matter of he shoots he scores. A roster full of Sedins and Raymonds is not going to win the Cup. Most understand right or wrong, the rules change in the play-offs. You have to have a cross section of hockey skills. The finest of example of that was the Vcr World Junior finals when Downey put a terrific hit on Malkin, the Russian team folded it's tent and never contended after that hit.
I certainly am not suggesting we assemble a team of guys that do nothing but put the puck in the net, and it looks like you see that too. But most "nuclear deterrents" can barely even play the body at the NHL level, these guys are useless except for fighting the guys dumb enough to trade punches with them (usually other guys trying to hold down a job with their fists).
Fred wrote:Cherry reckoned that was when Boston figured out the Vcr PP...they didn't have a any fear of it and decided to rough up the 'Nucks at that time and they dressed Thorton
So are you saying that the goon act wouldn't have been trotted out if the Canucks powerplay had executed?

Tell that to the people thinking that only John Scott prevents cheap shots (ask Brent Seabrook about that, btw).
Canuck-One wrote:Apparently we do as none of Daniel's teammates had the courage to take on this giant of a man. Would it have been better to have Rypien on the fourth line against Boston? I don't know, but I do know that I wouldn't have to keep hearing about what a gutless team the Canucks are.
This is what it comes down to for me. People calling for the team to sign a few players that will drop 'em seem to be more interested in assembling a team that loses the way they'd prefer than in assembling a team that wins.

Don't get me wrong, I could probably watch Brad Marchand fall down a flight of stairs and chuckle at this point.
coco_canuck wrote:Yup, one of the most infuriating aspects of the finals was the atrocious officiating.
Agreed. Honestly it had me questioning whether I wanted to watch another Stanley Cup Finals. I'm still not sure how I'm going to feel about it next time around.
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