The Power Forward

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Re: The Power Forward

Postby ESQ » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:29 pm

tantalum wrote:The Rangers have ample cap room.


I had to look that up because it seems so bizarre, but you're absolutely right. Its shocking how much ditching Drury and Gomez changed the makeup of their team.

I have kind of been expecting NYR to make a big-money move since buying out Drury (beyond Richards, of course), but it hasn't happened. Looking at their roster they need solid top4 dmen, and I don't think Ballard fits that bill for them. And then of course, the question is how much do you take away from our D to improve our forwards?
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Canuck-One » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:17 pm

Maybe we have the chip to get both needs in Schneider. Ottawa doesn't have outstanding goaltending and they do have Milan Michalek and Matt Carkner. That would give us a top six forward and a take no prisoners D man who will stick up for his team mates against anyone. I would still like to see MG sign Brad Winchester as well for the 4th line to add grit and a big body.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Southern_Canuck » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:41 pm

Has anyone watched a bunch of NYR games?

I haven't seen them play much, and was surprised by the number of hits that Callahan had - I always thought it was Dubinsky that laid on the body and had a little offensive skill, but Callahan was a higher skilled player...

NYR forwards hit stats:

Boyle 240/82 (G 21 A 14 P 35)
Callahan 224/60 (G 23 A 25 P 48)
Prust 161/82
Fedotenko 150/66
Dubinsky 141/77 (G 24 A 30 P 54)
Avery 115/76
Stepan 83/82
Anisimov 74/82
Zuccarello 56/42
Wolski 47/73
Gaborik 46/62
Prospal 44/29
Frolov 39/43
Christensen 34/63
Boogaard 27/22

Seems like Callahan would be a good fit on the Canucks as well. It's all wishful thinking, as it looks like the Rangers will be able to sign all of their RFAs.

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Re: The Power Forward

Postby ClamRussel » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:12 pm

Canuck-One wrote:Maybe we have the chip to get both needs in Schneider. Ottawa doesn't have outstanding goaltending and they do have Milan Michalek and Matt Carkner. That would give us a top six forward and a take no prisoners D man who will stick up for his team mates against anyone. I would still like to see MG sign Brad Winchester as well for the 4th line to add grit and a big body.


I'm not convinced that Carkner can play or Michalek is an improvement on our top 6....how much better is he than Samuelsson? I'd argue not that much if at all. Ottawa has a pretty solid goaltending prospect in Robin Lehner already. I would like Carkner's toughness though for sure....is he a liability out there though?
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Tciso » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:38 pm

[quote="Southern_Canuck"

Lapierre 194/78 (Mtl/Ana/Van)
Hansen 149/82
Torres 134/80

Tambellini 113/62 - Hits? Who was counting, cuz I don't think there are 10 guys in the league who remember being hit by Tambi
Samuelsson 76/75 - Ditto
Raymond 38/70 - double Ditto
[/quote]
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby LiquidSnake » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:13 am

I posted this on another site but my personal pipe dream of getting doan and Benn would make the team look like this:
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
Jamie Benn ($0.821m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Shane Doan ($4.550m)
Mason Raymond ($2.550m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Chris Higgins ($1.900m)
Brad Winchester ($0.850m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.525m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)
Sami Salo ($2.000m) / Andrew Alberts ($1.225m)
Aaron Rome ($0.750m)

GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m) / Cory Schneider ($0.900m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,655,000; BONUSES: $95,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,645,000

Hodgson, Samuelsson or Raymond, Tanev, some draft picks for Doan and Benn is what I was thinking. not sure if it would be enough. I'd imagine the return for Doan wouldnt be that great at the deadline considering he has a NTC and could choose the team he'd be moved to. I would hope for getting both before the season starts to develop some chemistry with Kesler.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby wienerdog » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:06 am

Southern_Canuck wrote:
KeyserSoze wrote:Samuelsson is a power forward about once every 19 games.

Hits (per game) for Vancouver forwards 2010-11 regular season:

Kesler 124/82
Tambellini 113/62


According to this, Tambellini was a more prolific hitter at 1.82 hits per game than Ryan freaking Kesler was at 1.51

What's wrong with that picture?
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Fred » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:46 am

That's the flaw to statitics, according to them a hit is a hit but any player or fan of the game understand there is a difference between a Tambellini love tap and a Torres hit. Satitics especally spread over a long time are good indicators but they're also flawed often
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby LiquidSnake » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:53 pm

wienerdog wrote:
Southern_Canuck wrote:
KeyserSoze wrote:Samuelsson is a power forward about once every 19 games.

Hits (per game) for Vancouver forwards 2010-11 regular season:

Kesler 124/82
Tambellini 113/62


According to this, Tambellini was a more prolific hitter at 1.82 hits per game than Ryan freaking Kesler was at 1.51

What's wrong with that picture?

Not much. Kesler plays ES, PK and PP. Exerts a lot of energy, I'd say hitting is not his primary concern when you're shutting down guys like Toews and Thornton.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Tciso » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:15 am

wienerdog wrote:According to this, Tambellini was a more prolific hitter at 1.82 hits per game than Ryan freaking Kesler was at 1.51

What's wrong with that picture?


The people counting hits are incompetent? If you surveyed the 1.82 players hit per game by Tambellini, I am sure most of them would have no idea what you were talking about. While he makes lots of contact with other players, those "hits" just didn't register, and most of the time, his hits didn't even slow the other guys down.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Southern_Canuck » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:25 pm

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Canucks+need+winger+keep+with+Kesler/5119683/story.htmlCanucks need a big winger to keep up with Kesler

excerpt:
Who knows? Maybe Gillis could pry someone like Matt Moulson away from Garth Snow for, oh, Ballard (and his $4.2-million salary) and Hodgson, say.


OK, which one of you is Gord McIntyre? :)

I'm pretty sure that Matt Moulson is not the answer.

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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Fred » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:30 pm

What about Grabner Ouch :P
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby ESQ » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:56 pm

Reading that article makes me grateful for a place like this where people write opinions supported by evidence and with more than a modicum of thought put behind it. Seriously, almost everybody in this thread has posted better "articles" than this professional.

I thank you all for giving something worth reading, and a more or less intelligent debate.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby tantalum » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:26 pm

I think Moulson would be a good addition to the team HOWEVER I wouldn't call his 6' 200 lb frame and 20 PIMs and 80 hits a year particularly intimidating.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Diehard1 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:50 pm

If I'm Gillis - I look at a guy like Moulson and ask if he's better than what I already have, especially considering what I would have to give up. He's had back to back 30 goal seasons playing 1st unit PP - Raymond had 25 2 seasons ago playing 2nd unit PP, Sammy had 30 playing 1st and 2nd unit PP. Higgins has had multiple 20 goal seasons and should be good for at least 15, and you've also got Sturm (7 20 goal seasons) and Hansen who should improve, though he almost surely won't get close to 30 I expect 10 to maybe 15.

That's 5 wingers for the 2nd/3rd/4th lines, all who are already on the team and who could come close to Moulson's production in a career season. They aren't sure things by any means, but they are solid players who are very good PKers as well, and this doesn't include Daniel or Burr, who should score 35-40 and 25-30 respectively.

My point? Like Tant, I just don't see Moulson making that much of a difference, and especially not for Hodgson + Ballard. That makes the team worse, IMHO. If a new winger is brought in, he will be a physical player who goes to the net and can pot the odd goal - again, somebody like Brenden Morrow, who brings something different than what's already available. There's no use in bringing in more of what you already have, or a slightly better version of what you have and giving up a lot for it.
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