The Power Forward

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Re: The Power Forward

Postby coco_canuck » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:11 pm

Canuck-One wrote: If his knuckles scrape the ice, I don't care. If he only plays 1 minute per game, I don't care.


You can want that more than God's salvation, but it's not going to happen.

The Canucks will not dress a goon who can't play more than a couple a minutes on a part time basis in a crucial playoff game.

Your beloved goon wouldn't have been on the ice when Daniel was speed bagged and Raymond was folded into the boards.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby KeyserSoze » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:55 pm

Canuck-One wrote:Apparently there is a misunderstanding about my position.

Canuck-One wrote:If his knuckles scrape the ice, I don't care. If he only plays 1 minute per game, I don't care.

:|

I think you were better off when your position was misunderstood ;)
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Fred » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:35 pm

Here'sa some guys who qualify as gritty

The Bash Brothers :D

http://thehockeywriters.com/top-10-most ... -brothers/
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby sagebrush » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:28 pm

John Scott might be available. He's big, tough, and has playoff experience. He doesn't skate so well, but was instrumental in the Canucks defeat of the Hawks. They might be glad to get rid of him. ;)
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby jackalman » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:10 pm

Though I completely agree that the team should have someone who can take care of business and play the game very high on the list of priorities. I feel the Sedins need to grow some balls and stop just taking shit all the time. Now I know that its not there style but stand up for selfs a bit for christ sakes. Give Marchant a smack up side the head yourself Danny! You are bigger and stronger than he is. No wonder your team mates dont do any thing about it, as you dont seem to mind. Now I am pissed that a team mate isnt there for the twins more often, but they need to show that they will stand up for them selves more than they do IMO.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby ESQ » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:19 pm

ClamRussel wrote:You are confusing toughness w/ thuggery; 2 totally different things. Name one SC winning team that wasn't "tough". I can't think of many save Colorado or Tampa Bay. To imply Detroit or Chicago weren't tough is deluded...or Pittsburgh. Anaheim & Boston may be the model "tough" teams in that they some goons involved...but if Vancouver was as tough as Chicago or Detroit I think most fans would be on board. Do you really think those teams would have allowed Zetterberg or Toews to be speedbagged w/ no response?


I'm not equating toughness with thuggery, but I admit I'm relying on fights/PIMs to quantify toughness, I just don't see any other way. Hits are too subjectively counted to be any reliance.

But I disagree with you, I'd say the other Cup winning teams won on skill not toughness. You may be able to point to one or two players on the other Cup-winning teams that were tough, but for the most part they were not key players that led to that team's success. The exception would be Stevens in 03. But I would definitely not put the Wings or Penguins in the category of tough teams, and both those teams went through tough teams on their way to the Cup (Pittsburgh through Philly and Detroit through Anaheim and Chicago). How do you see them as tough teams? Do opposing forwards stay out of the corners because of punishing Dmen? Do players avoid the puck along the boards against them because they don't want to be creamed? Do their star players get a pass because opposing players are too intimidated to check them?

I will say that Chicago is an odd one. They are a team with key tough players like Keith and Seabrook, as well as greasy headhunters like Bolland, Ladd, and Byfuglien. And yet they won the Cup with the 3rd-fewest PIMs/game and no fights. Maybe that just says they were getting away with murder? In any event, for all their toughness (such as it is) its clear none of the other recent Cup winners were in the same league as Boston and Anaheim.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:49 pm

I would just like a bigger player that can SURVIVE the playoffs, while giving us a physical edge. Obviously he has to play minutes.

Kesler tries to play big. Try it for too long and you get hurt. Burrows, goes to the greasy areas (ditto with Samuelsson sometimes), isn't going to go through very many people. Obviously we can't rely on the Sedins or Raymond for anything of the sort. Guys like Hansen and Higgins will play tough and gritty, but they aren't bruising players. Glass and Torres were bruising players, but have limited skill...

There's more than a few of them out there. Backes, Hartnell, Stewart, Ladd, Doan, Lucic, Horton, Morrow etc. etc. The Canucks really lack someone with a big body that can play minutes, score goals and make life hard on the opposition.

We're full of people players hate playing against because they're annoying little pukes. Nobody is really concerned about Burrows ploughing them over in the corner and then scoring a goal. If there is a play to be made for a Shane Doan built around Schneider +... we should be all over it.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Southern_Canuck » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:10 pm

This thread has slowly evolved from Morrow/Benn/Booth/Dubinsky/Doan/Malone/E. Kane to a tough, gritty player that can take a regular shift vs. knuckle draggers...

Have we completely given up hope for a trade for a Top 6 Power Forward?

I haven't.

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Re: The Power Forward

Postby BladesofSteel » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:08 pm

Fred wrote:I'm wondering how much this featured in the post season player interviews, because one thing we can all agree is MG is bring in a lot of gritty type players for try out at camp. It has to lead you to believe that players like the Sedins have said we're sick of being punched in the face or run head first into the boards or crossed checked by the goalie. I know in their positioned i wouldn't like it, I doubt if any one would. He (MG) seems to have a theme to his signings this summer

I'm more led to believe that, the theme with which you suggest, has more to do with replacing the players that have since departed, ie. Glass, Rypien, Bolduc, Desbiens, Torres etc. (ya know, gritty type players).

Did you expect Gillis to bring in softer, more offensive players to compete for the 11th/12th and 13th spots on the roster had the Sedins not expressed their dis-concern?
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby dbr » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:52 pm

Southern_Canuck wrote:This thread has slowly evolved from Morrow/Benn/Booth/Dubinsky/Doan/Malone/E. Kane to a tough, gritty player that can take a regular shift vs. knuckle draggers...

Have we completely given up hope for a trade for a Top 6 Power Forward?

I haven't.

S_C


Unfortunately there is a lot more time to shoot the breeze between now and whenever this trade is going to happen than there are candidates to identify.

I haven't given up hope, but I'm not exactly holding my breath either.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby BladesofSteel » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:56 pm

dbr wrote:Unfortunately there is a lot more time to shoot the breeze between now and whenever this trade is going to happen than there are candidates to identify.

I haven't given up hope, but I'm not exactly holding my breath either.


I haven't given up hope either, but I'm not sure if we can expect a significant upgrade to the top six before the end summer.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby sagebrush » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:01 pm

Southern_Canuck wrote:Have we completely given up hope for a trade for a Top 6 Power Forward?

I haven't.

Trading for a top 6 fwd seems unlikely at this time, but in a few months, the priorities of struggling/injured teams will change. This may provide MG with opportunities.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby ClamRussel » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:37 pm

ESQ wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:You are confusing toughness w/ thuggery; 2 totally different things. Name one SC winning team that wasn't "tough". I can't think of many save Colorado or Tampa Bay. To imply Detroit or Chicago weren't tough is deluded...or Pittsburgh. Anaheim & Boston may be the model "tough" teams in that they some goons involved...but if Vancouver was as tough as Chicago or Detroit I think most fans would be on board. Do you really think those teams would have allowed Zetterberg or Toews to be speedbagged w/ no response?


I'm not equating toughness with thuggery, but I admit I'm relying on fights/PIMs to quantify toughness, I just don't see any other way. Hits are too subjectively counted to be any reliance.

But I disagree with you, I'd say the other Cup winning teams won on skill not toughness. You may be able to point to one or two players on the other Cup-winning teams that were tough, but for the most part they were not key players that led to that team's success. The exception would be Stevens in 03. But I would definitely not put the Wings or Penguins in the category of tough teams, and both those teams went through tough teams on their way to the Cup (Pittsburgh through Philly and Detroit through Anaheim and Chicago). How do you see them as tough teams? Do opposing forwards stay out of the corners because of punishing Dmen? Do players avoid the puck along the boards against them because they don't want to be creamed? Do their star players get a pass because opposing players are too intimidated to check them?

I will say that Chicago is an odd one. They are a team with key tough players like Keith and Seabrook, as well as greasy headhunters like Bolland, Ladd, and Byfuglien. And yet they won the Cup with the 3rd-fewest PIMs/game and no fights. Maybe that just says they were getting away with murder? In any event, for all their toughness (such as it is) its clear none of the other recent Cup winners were in the same league as Boston and Anaheim.


Lets not forget Eager, Brouwer, Burrish & Boynton as well. I'm referring more to team toughness; I don't see Detroit getting pushed around like the Canucks despite the fact they don't have any goons. I'm not saying the Cup is won on toughness; but it IS won with skilled toughness. You need heart & grit; skill alone will not cut it.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:19 am

ClamRussel wrote:Lets not forget Eager, Brouwer, Burrish & Boynton as well. I'm referring more to team toughness; I don't see Detroit getting pushed around like the Canucks despite the fact they don't have any goons. I'm not saying the Cup is won on toughness; but it IS won with skilled toughness. You need heart & grit; skill alone will not cut it.


Detroit has guys like Franzen and Holmstrom. Not exactly tough players, but big bodies that are certainly not afraid to muck it up in the greasy areas, have the size to do so, and can score goals. They aren't afraid of taking flyers on guys like Bertuzzi.

It's one thing to play tough for a regular season game, or a round/two in the playoffs. But asking Kesler and Burrows to be this kind of player is only going to break them down and leave them with nothing left for a deep run. Owen Nolan is certainly a step in the right direction, but about 5 years too late.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby BladesofSteel » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:55 am

ClamRussel wrote: I don't see Detroit getting pushed around like the Canucks despite the fact they don't have any goons. I'm not saying the Cup is won on toughness; but it IS won with skilled toughness. You need heart & grit; skill alone will not cut it.

When, aside from an injury ravished SCF, did Vancouver ever get pushed around where the team couldn't come back and punish the opponents with a victory?
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