The Power Forward

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damonberryman
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by damonberryman »

this is my first time on this site. While reading it I could not help but notice the lack of haters thank goodness. That TSN site has them all over. Anyhow, I am not sure Kane could not be had. it would cost us a lot but think of him on Keslers line. He is tough as they come and he is a local boy. We would probably have to give up Shneids, COHO and a first round pick. I would be so reluctant to trade COHO becasue he has not yet shown what he can do. I am not sure AV will give him the shot but he will come back to haunt us if we trade him. He was ranked as one of the best juniours and was the best player on the gold medal team in the Juniours. He made Tavares look wonderful. However, Kane would help me get over the loss. We need a tough talented player and the kid brings it all. Would not surprise me if we get him. Still has another year left on entry salary too.
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The Brown Wizard
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by The Brown Wizard »

I'm not sure how you figure Kane is obtainable. There's really nothing about him or his play that would have Winnipeg looking to move him unless they would see 3-4 top shelf skaters and/or prospects coming back.

If the trade had Kesler, Edler or maybe Burrows involved in addition to the package you mentioned, sure but Schneids, CoHo and a first won't land you one of the top young players in the game. No way
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by ClamRussel »

Uncle dans leg wrote:I'm not sure how you figure Kane is obtainable. There's really nothing about him or his play that would have Winnipeg looking to move him unless they would see 3-4 top shelf skaters and/or prospects coming back.

If the trade had Kesler, Edler or maybe Burrows involved in addition to the package you mentioned, sure but Schneids, CoHo and a first won't land you one of the top young players in the game. No way
lmao, yeeeah right
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by The Brown Wizard »

ClamRussel wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:I'm not sure how you figure Kane is obtainable. There's really nothing about him or his play that would have Winnipeg looking to move him unless they would see 3-4 top shelf skaters and/or prospects coming back.

If the trade had Kesler, Edler or maybe Burrows involved in addition to the package you mentioned, sure but Schneids, CoHo and a first won't land you one of the top young players in the game. No way
lmao, yeeeah right
Exactly, and that's the only way we would ever see Evander Kane in Canucks colours.

Probably why he will most likely be a Jet for the next 10 years at least...
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damonberryman
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by damonberryman »

So what we are talking about is someone who can score 20 minimum, be a second line player on a deep team that has as much talent as anyone in the NHL and he needs to be nasty. That is a tall order. I think the man you are looking for is teh one that has noot been mentioned during the Steamer/Linden talk and that is Curt Fraser. He could do it all. He was also one of the toughest guys I ever saw. Wheew! I got that off my chest. I loved the Gradin line more than any other line we have had. They could do it all and someof you are dead on. If we had Steamer Thomas would have been picking himself up out of the net on a regualar basis. I cannot remember us running him seriously even once in the SCF. Not once.

MG has a tough job in front of him. However, as someone pointed out, there is no rush to get it done. There are a number of items hs has to do first. First he needs to give teh team a month or so to see how much damage was done to confidence. You are all aware of what the rest of the NHL thinks of us (including the fans) so imagine what it is going to be like facing it all on the road. Second he needs to figure out what to do with Roberto. I feel bad for the guy but he cost us the Cup and he needs to go. Period. Even if we have to buy him out. he is an albatross on the team. i would like to think he will get his head together (nothing wrong with his skills) like he did somewhat with the Shitehawks, and that the whole team goes marching to the Cup. If Gillis decides to stand by Lou I will support it but not happily. If i performed like that in my job I would be unemployed.
Finally, he needs to talk to AV about some of his choices. Letting Danny get beat up by the punk Marchand was inexcusable even if AV had to take his coat off and do it himself. We need to toughen up in only one way. we need a deterrent and I have just the man. The Rangers drafted Dylan McIlroy in 2010 with the tenth pick if I remember right. That is the kid we want
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by Fred »

I'm thinking the lack of physicality is some thing that comes down from the top. If you recall a couple of years ago there was a big drive to reduce penalties...which is in it's self not a bad thing, but to do it they got rid of Hordichuk and O'Brien and then they defanged Kesler and Burrows. Hordichuk was replaced by Glass and Oreskovich. To me it looks like MG has declared those moves to be a failure. I'm sure players like the Sedins mentioned at the end of the season meeting that they've soaked up about enough abuse on behalf of the team. So MG has come to a split in the highway and has started to look around for some size and muscle. I hope he sends a memo to AV :D It's no good having size and muscle if every time they take a penalty they're benched.

Fraser was some thing special and especially when they put the line together with Smyl and Gradin. That line had every thing and took no prisoners and they were prolific scorers at the same time. It's a shame that Fraser came down with type 1 diabetes, it took a terrible toll on his health
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by LotusBlossom »

Fred mentioned Oreskovich, and I have to say, I liked what I saw from the kid this past season. I see nothing but an upside, barring any injury of course. I was surprised Volpatti wasn't called up when the Canucks didn't get much out of Glass during the finals. Not sure what it is about Volpatti, but I love watching him play.
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by Fred »

IMO Oreskovich seems like a nice guy but thats both the good news and the bad news for a fourth line player, It's strange he hasn't been signed already which tells me he is going to have to audition for a spot again. But they need more from him. There's a bit of a traffic jam at 4th line wing position with Bitz, Ebbett, Mancari, Pinizzotto, Volpatti, Archibald, Duco and Oreskovich all vying for 2 spots
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by Jovocop »

Fred wrote:IMO Oreskovich seems like a nice guy but thats both the good news and the bad news for a fourth line player, It's strange he hasn't been signed already which tells me he is going to have to audition for a spot again. But they need more from him. There's a bit of a traffic jam at 4th line wing position with Bitz, Ebbett, Mancari, Pinizzotto, Volpatti, Archibald, Duco and Oreskovich all vying for 2 spots
That is exactly the problem with Oreskovich. He is just too much of a nice guy. The Canucks need more assholes than nice guys, especially after the SCF. I like Oreskovich but I am not sure he is a good fit for the Canucks anymore.
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herb
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by herb »

I was relatively high on Oreskovich last training camp, but aside from being a good hitter he is softer than than a figure skater out there. He's freaking huge, and watching him stand there while some of our guys were being bitch slapped around by the Bruins in the finals was embarrassing. Unless the guy grows some cajones and a mean streak, which is unfortunately unlikely, he's not in my bottom 6.

PS - We already have one of the best power forwards in the league, RK17.
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by Southern_Canuck »

The Summer isn't over, and there is still time left to acquire another (including Kesler) power forward...

But I'll say this - I'll be disappointed if we enter the season with Sturm (and perhaps Nolan) as our new top 6 forwards. I think Raymond and Samuelsson have proven that they're not the fit that will win the Cup (helicopter line), and the Canucks' time in the sun is limited - they need to act now.

Not to mention with the Canucks approx $2.5M below the cap - how will that make all of the players that left money on the table feel? (thinking that the Canucks would spend near the cap to get the best team possible)

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Re: The Power Forward

Post by BladesofSteel »

Southern_Canuck wrote:The Summer isn't over, and there is still time left to acquire another (including Kesler) power forward...

But I'll say this - I'll be disappointed if we enter the season with Sturm (and perhaps Nolan) as our new top 6 forwards. I think Raymond and Samuelsson have proven that they're not the fit that will win the Cup (helicopter line), and the Canucks' time in the sun is limited - they need to act now.

Not to mention with the Canucks approx $2.5M below the cap - how will that make all of the players that left money on the table feel? (thinking that the Canucks would spend near the cap to get the best team possible)

S_C
I won't be surprised if this is it for off season moves. There a lot of new bodies brought in for depth (Bitz/Duco/Mancari/Ebbet/Sturm/Pinizzotto/Nolan) and a number of younger guys (Vic-O/Hodgson/Archibald/Rodin) that will be hungry to make the club. There is a great deal of competition with several spots available to start the season, I see no need to press on bringing in the "answer" this soon.

This club will have two big things on its side come trade deadline 2012: Trade-able assets and cap space.

A big move is coming, I'm just not holding my breath for it to come in the off season.
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by dbr »

Southern_Canuck wrote:I think Raymond and Samuelsson have proven that they're not the fit that will win the Cup (helicopter line), and the Canucks' time in the sun is limited - they need to act now.
Samuelsson did not play on the helicopter line and with Raymond on that line we got to game six of the Stanley Cup Finals.

I'd love to improve on one or both of them but we got pretty damn close to winning the Cup with just one of those two players on the roster.
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Re: The Power Forward

Post by Southern_Canuck »

dbr wrote:Samuelsson did not play on the helicopter line and with Raymond on that line we got to game six of the Stanley Cup Finals.

I'd love to improve on one or both of them but we got pretty damn close to winning the Cup with just one of those two players on the roster.
??? Samuelsson played on the helicopter line all season until he was finally shut down in the playoffs:
Regular Season: GP 75 G 18 A 32 P 50
Playoffs: GP 11 G 1 A 2 P 3

Raymond, on the other hand:
Regular Season: GP 70 G 15 A 24 P 39
Playoffs: GP 24 G 2 A 6 P 8

With the Sedins filling 33% of the top 6, the Canucks can't afford these perimiter players in the top 6 - you say that the Canucks made it to the Satnley Cup finals with at least one of them, but swap Raymond for a Morrow, Kane, Doan, or Malone, and it's more likely they win it.

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Re: The Power Forward

Post by dbr »

Southern_Canuck wrote:??? Samuelsson played on the helicopter line all season until he was finally shut down in the playoffs:
Regular Season: GP 75 G 18 A 32 P 50
Playoffs: GP 11 G 1 A 2 P 3
Sorry, as the term "helicopter line" seemed to become vogue during the playoff run (apologies if you had been using it all season and I overlooked it) I referred just to those games.

Still I suppose Samuelsson did play 11 games, but only ~35% of his even strength ice time was on the Kesler line and even then his play is hard to take issue with, given that he was "finally shut down" after it was obvious he could not play through his injury any longer.

I don't think there's any doubt that a healthy Samuelsson (the guy who had seven goals and eleven points in a six game series one year earlier) could have been a difference-maker for us this year.
Raymond, on the other hand:
Regular Season: GP 70 G 15 A 24 P 39
Playoffs: GP 24 G 2 A 6 P 8

With the Sedins filling 33% of the top 6, the Canucks can't afford these perimiter players in the top 6 -
But even with Raymond's atrocious production and a player capable of changing the balance of a series sitting on the sidelines, we came tantalizingly close to winning the Cup.

What I'm saying is that it's conceivable we could have won the cup this year - we had so many contributors playing hurt or not playing at all, I don't think it's reasonable to say "we can't win the Cup" with a lineup that very nearly did.

But again, I'm not saying I'll be complaining if Gillis finds a way to make an improvement.
you say that the Canucks made it to the Satnley Cup finals with at least one of them, but swap Raymond for a Morrow, Kane, Doan, or Malone, and it's more likely they win it.

S_C
Oh, of course. No disagreement there at all.
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