Hodgson Outlook

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CrzyCanuck
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by CrzyCanuck »

rockalt wrote:Hey CrzyCanuck, did you used to post on the ESPN boards ages ago? Maybe it's just a common handle, but the name looks familiar.
No, sorry unfortunately I've never posted on the ESPN boards. I've always only posted on Central.
dbr wrote:Depends on the deal.

The window is open right now.. I for one wouldn't shed too many tears if this team was down one young center and up one Stanley Cup this time next year.

But if that deal doesn't come up, I'm happy to let Silent G spend a year in the AHL working on his skating.
Agreed. When we initially drafted Hodgson I had the belief that he would be one of the future core players, therefore immovable. But now I have changed my mind. Hodgson is certainly a movable asset and shall be moved if the right deal comes. However I don't think MG would pull the trigger just yet, since Hodgson is still young and has potential.

His notorious skating... well, like some posters here, I did notice a slight difference during this past playoffs. But this difference was not enough to increase my confidence in him. Although we should be careful here because skating can be trained. With hard training Hodgson's skating can be brought up to average or slightly better than average. Let's hope that he continues his training program with Roberts and really focus on this area next year in the AHL.
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ClamRussel
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by ClamRussel »

Seriously people? The Sedins can't skate and they seem to do ok. Do you guys really forget just how bad they were in the beginning? Hodgson had some solid scoring opportunities and was unlucky not to score. Who cares if he doesn't fly down the ice if he can make up for it in other areas. The Sedins improved their skating over time so much so that its not a major issue anymore but it did take time. If I had a dollar for everytime fans called for those "2nd liners" to be traded! It took them almost a decade & alot of preferential treatment early to develop into the players they are today. Be patient and let the kid progress.
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rats19
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by rats19 »

When i saw cotton skate at first I thought he is tentative....then last year I saw him with a little more confidence and was not out of his league speedwise..imho
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by Fred »

Not this coming season but the season following, the following top 6 wingers are UFA or RFA, Raymond, Samuelsson and Sturm. Neither Hodgson, or Schroeder for that matter are on the same development curve as Duchesne or others. So for MG he has to be thinking in terms of this year for the Cup. The candidates for promotion and who will likely take time to make any impact are Rodin, Sweatt, maybe Archibald in a different sort of role as well as H+S. Those addition will not scare to many other teams.

My hope this year are Archibald's turns out to be a Lucic clone, after his trade in the OHL towards the end of the season he came on like a gang buster with his skill and he has always been a player that can and does take care of himself very well. I hope AV gives the guy a chance and we don't see a repeat of the Tom Watt/Cam Neeley stubbornness
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by Aaronp18 »

As far as I'm concerned there are no more immovable assets. Again NTC and NMC aside.

If something comes up that can better this team within the next 1-3 years which seem to be our ideal window to win a Cup you need to pull the trigger. No regrets even if Hodgson is moved and turns out to be a 60-75 point player for years with another team.

As far as his skating goes he's never going to be elite, however like Clam said the Sedin's looked like garbage when they came into the league and have improved steadily year after year. They still are the fastest but they are damn smart with amazing hockey sense. You can see that Hodgson is similar to them in this way.

I think he'll still be a very good NHL player as he definitely seems to have his head on straight and by all accounts is working diligently to improve his weakness. I'm willing to be patient as we were with the Sedin's but if the price is right I'd package him up no questions asked.
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by coco_canuck »

ClamRussel wrote:If I had a dollar for everytime fans called for those "2nd liners" to be traded! It took them almost a decade & alot of preferential treatment early to develop into the players they are today. Be patient and let the kid progress.
If we don't trade Hodgson, I hope you're right, but I don't see the same high-end potential with Cody as I saw with the twins very early on.

Cody is probably 6'0 with skates on, and doesn't have the same puck skills the twins had from an early age.

Dan and Hank have elite-level hands, touch and instincts. They make up for their lack of speed with an innate cycle game, and yeoman work along the corners.

Cody has very good skills, but they're not at a Sedin level. We could see with the Twins that they needed to get stronger and tougher to be successful, but with Cody, as Topps alluded too, he makes low percentage plays when he's in one-on-one battles and doesn't have the high end skill to get away with it.

I can see him excelling on the half-boards on the PP and being a decent point-producer when he better learns the NHL game, but I don't see as star in the making. On this team, he'd play on the second unit PP and he'd get 3rd line ice-time without bringing the tangible assets we're lacking on the team. He's a small centre without much physicality, nor speed, and he's likely not going to produce big points.

If Gillis can move him to find a better fit I'm all for it.
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by Fred »

If you want a true reflection of what he brings, ask yourself who would you rather have Hodgson or .............. ?? Now if the answer is less than Cody rather than Malhotra the current 3rd line centre, then his potential is really limited
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Orcasfan
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by Orcasfan »

Do we ever learn from our past? :roll: Seriously, I echo CamRussell's sentiments about this kid. It took Henrik 3 or 4 years to start putting up good numbers. During that time, he was branded as a "flop", bad skater, no grit, etc. Luckily for Henrik, and the Canucks, the coaches (and GM's) knew their guy, and kept faith in Player Development! Same with Kesler. And those are guys in our own backyard!

I'm not a hockey pro, scout, coach or otherwise involved in assessing talent and skills every day. So, I tend to pay more attention to the opinion of such people (as opposed to us fans) when it comes to judging how a player rates. When Claude Noel calls Hodgson the best player on the Moose last year, it actually means something! :) This past season was Hodgson's first real experience of NHL hockey, and, considering that much of it was during a long playoff run, he did fine. Especially, considering that he still has not been able to play a full season of hockey since Junior. :(

I don't know just where he could crack the line-up next season. I assume he is working extra hard this summer on his speed drills as well as getting familiar with the role of winger. I, too, am not certain that Manny is going to return with 100% of where he was. But Manny is familiar with playing the wing (left). If I were AV and Co, I would try to slot in Hodgson at 3rd C, with Manny on left wing, on a regular (but intermittent) basis, early on. That way, before the post-Xmas run for the playoffs, he could do a lot of learning on the job, without jeopardizing outcomes. I think Lappy is ideally suited to a 4th C position, unless he starts to show more offense. The problem for the 3rd line is not who plays C, but that we have more potential left-wingers than right. At this point, Hansen (if he is signed) is only other "known" right winger on the 3rd line. Of course, it is possible that someone like Oreo or new guy, Mankari could surprise! ;) So, Hodgson, if his speed improves, could conceivably compete for that 3rd line right wing position.

However, they end up juggling that 3rd line, I really want to see more scoring from that line. That's the promise that Hodgson brings to that line. 8-)
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

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Tiger wrote:Welcome refugees from Central.. and yes Rockalt .. 8 years ago both you and CrzyCanuck were on ESPN board ( when I was Mikodat)..
Hey Tiger, had no idea you were Mikodat! Could to see a fellow ESNP'r still on the boards. I thought we'd lost them all after many first made their way here (Mattola, Puckhead, Mooger_35, PlayoffVan, etc.).
CrzyCanuck wrote:

No, sorry unfortunately I've never posted on the ESPN boards. I've always only posted on Central.
Whoops case of mistaken identity I guess! Guess I wasn't the only one though. Glad to see I'm not crazy! Welcome to the boards in either event!
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coco_canuck
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by coco_canuck »

Orcasfan wrote:Do we ever learn from our past? :roll:
Just because some players have developed in the past despite being widely criticized, doesn't mean every top prospect will turn into a star player.

It's not a simple case of generalization.

I'm fine with disagreeing about Cody's potential, it's irrational support and criticism that should be dismissed.

The Twins were hated on due to impatience, and personal dislike of two, young, frail, red-headed twins from Sweden who weren't physical players.

Those who called them pussies and weak couldn't for whatever reason see their talent and weren't prepared to be patient to let them develop. When your issues are mainly centred around physical growth and professional adjustments, it's a good bet players will overcome those things with hard work.

The deficiencies I see in Cody's game have more to do with height, lack of explosiveness and not a high enough skill-level to overcome those deficiencies to be a star player.

My point is, if Cody isn't a star-type player, then I don't see how he's a great fit on this team, and I'd rather move him for something more suitable.
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by Jovorock »

Be patient with this kid, Cody might not like it but another year in the AHL wouldn't hurt. Remember Cam Neely was dumped at 21 (I think) Harry Neal didn't have patients, I think MG will.
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Orcasfan
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by Orcasfan »

Coco, I get what you're saying...and, who knows, your assessment of Hodgson may end up being correct in the long run. But, I still think it is too early in his career to make a concluding assessment. And, I would like to point out that the "skill-set" a player brings is not necessarily something that they are born with. Most of the skills in a hockey player have been learned. Yes, some are lucky enough to have a "natural" gift for on-ice vision, hockey smarts, etc. But practically everything else can be learned by dedication and hard work. An example is our own Kesler - the one who used to be known for his "hands-of-stone", remember? ;) He was branded as a 3rd line C. Well, guess what? He worked his butt off developing his skill-set, including his shooting, and, voila - we have the Kesler we all enjoy today!

Of course, we can't extrapolate one player's development curve onto the next so easily. But, for me, when I look at the potential for player development, the "skills" that give hope for the future (in a high end player) are "hockey smarts" and on-ice vision. With those, together with the right attitude - dedication to becoming the best you can be, willingness to be coached and to work hard at your craft - there is every promise that a young player can shine. I think Hodgson has those kind of skills, plus he has a decent shot, and is a very good passer. :) That's why I don't want to give up on him just yet. Of course, it is possible he turns into another Wellwood :roll: , but I think he is more ambitious than that!
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

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Jovorock wrote:Be patient with this kid, Cody might not like it but another year in the AHL wouldn't hurt. Remember Cam Neely was dumped at 21 (I think) Harry Neal didn't have patients, I think MG will.

The quality that many seem to miss when comparing the Sedins with Hodgson was as BB used to say they might not be lighting it up offensively but they don't give any thing up defensively ie they don't hurt you. Hodgson does not have the same defensive acumen of a Kesler or a Malhotra The Sedins were 20 when they took a regular shift in the NHL. I hope Hodgson turn out to be a NHL player, but I have serious doubts if he will be star quality....it would have shown. How many Hodgson moments can folks recall. I guess the question is is a he a top 6 player or a bottom 6 player in the future.

As to learned versus natural, if some one has the patent on "Making" hockey players or soccer, baseball what ever, they're sitting on a gold mine. Most coached admit you can teach defense but no one has found out what makes a Gretzky versus a Rypien. Some kids you put on the ice for the first time and they just go, other struggle before finding their balance. A lot of athletic development is innate, you can improve on it with better conditioning, strength, and work ethic but you can't manufacture innate skill
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by West Coast Jets Fan »

Can we stop with the Cam Neely comparisons? There is no way in hell that Hodgson is ever going to morph into Neely.

The best I ever hope to see him morphing into would be a smaller Shane Doan.
They both have similar junior careers and we're both pegged to be "sure things".I saw Doan as a rookie when he was with the Jets and even back then everyone knew he needed to improve his skating and hands.
Although Cody is a couple inches shorter and a cup or 2 lighter in the grit department, he could eventually grow into that type of player......the million dollar question being, do we wait and hope or package him up for a proven top 6 winger?

And I'll give GMMG a little more credit at player development and potential than that senile old fart Neale.
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coco_canuck
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Post by coco_canuck »

Orcasfan wrote:Of course, we can't extrapolate one player's development curve onto the next so easily. But, for me, when I look at the potential for player development, the "skills" that give hope for the future (in a high end player) are "hockey smarts" and on-ice vision. With those, together with the right attitude - dedication to becoming the best you can be, willingness to be coached and to work hard at your craft - there is every promise that a young player can shine. I think Hodgson has those kind of skills, plus he has a decent shot, and is a very good passer. :)
This is very credible.

But, typically, in today's NHL, to be a top player, and I'm talking 65-90 points, you have to posses a combination of either being a strong, fast skater, or having a powerful burst, or possessing elite-level skills, size or a power game.

Now obviously you don't have to have all of them, but you need at least two to get to a high level, or have a tremendous amount of skill and smarts. Cody does seem to have good smarts, and if he turns out to have incredible smarts, then he's got the ability to excel to that high level, but those types of smarts are rare.

I absolutely agree Cody will become a better skater, but he's never going to be a burner, and he doesn't have much size. He has to really excel at his strengths to compensate for his other short-comings, and that's a difficult thing to do. Smaller players like Morrow and M. Richards are very successful because they play a hard, physical game and are tremendous checkers and defensive players. I'm not sure if Cody can be that type of player. He's not soft, but he won't be punishing.
Orcasfan wrote:Of course, it is possible he turns into another Wellwood :roll: , but I think he is more ambitious than that!
I completely agree he's a dedicated athlete and there's no way he becomes like Wellwood. I see a steady 20 goal, 40-50 point player who is responsible, albeit not tremendous defensively.

I suppose with the uncertainty over what type of player Malhotra will be next year, and what happens when his contract is up in 2 years, Cody could serve a very useful role on this team. Otherwise, I don't see a player suited for the wing, and I don't see that high-end potential that would render him untouchable.

He's a very movable asset that may help us land the type of forward or defenseman the team could use. That's basically my reasoning for saying we should trade him.
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