Salo's imminent return

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dr.dork
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Salo's imminent return

Post by dr.dork » Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:54 pm

It is still a ways away, but my rough understanding is that we would be about $3.5 million over the cap with Salo in the lineup. So what are the options ?

1. The much publicized trade of Bieksa (who has looked better recently which means he might be worth more but then also more valuable to out team).
2. Trade Ballard.
3. Waive (or trade) Salo. The theory being he might get hurt again and/or it might be a long road back from that injury.
4. Move or waive a forward or two.
5. Pick up Rolston to put us $8M over the cap. Screw Bettman and his cap !
6. Someone else gets injured, problem gets postponed.

On item 4, you could trade/waive Samuelsson and put your money on Tambellini (or Hansen) on the second line with Raymond and Kesler. Third of Malholtra, Torres and Hansen and 4th of Bolduc, Glass and whoever. And then if we keep Salo we can move/waive Alberts and have a D consisting of Erhoff, Salo, Hamhuis, Edler, Bieksa and Ballard.

I suppose it makes sense to wait as long as possible because the problem may solve itself in the interim (option 6). But I think I prefer 1 or 4 with maybe even a slight preference for 4 (with the moved players being Samuelsson and Alberts). But it probably doesn't make sense to have your 6th costliest D making over $3M either, so there is some wisdom in 1 or 2 I think.

Thoughts ?

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the toucan kid
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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by the toucan kid » Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:32 pm

I assume we end up with basically what Boston did with Sturm. I guess the guy is going to be Bieksa.

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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by Tciso » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:30 am

I think it will be option 3. Salo has been a great D-man, but there is just too much risk in keeping him over BXA. Both cost the same, but Salo will need 20 games to get back into game shape, and odds are he'll miss half if not more of the post season. Not the type of guy I want in May. If Salo was 30, not 36, things would be different.
dr.dork wrote:It is still a ways away, but my rough understanding is that we would be about $3.5 million over the cap with Salo in the lineup. So what are the options ?

1. The much publicized trade of Bieksa (who has looked better recently which means he might be worth more but then also more valuable to out team).
2. Trade Ballard.
3. Waive (or trade) Salo. The theory being he might get hurt again and/or it might be a long road back from that injury.
4. Move or waive a forward or two.
5. Pick up Rolston to put us $8M over the cap. Screw Bettman and his cap !
6. Someone else gets injured, problem gets postponed.

On item 4, you could trade/waive Samuelsson and put your money on Tambellini (or Hansen) on the second line with Raymond and Kesler. Third of Malholtra, Torres and Hansen and 4th of Bolduc, Glass and whoever. And then if we keep Salo we can move/waive Alberts and have a D consisting of Erhoff, Salo, Hamhuis, Edler, Bieksa and Ballard.

I suppose it makes sense to wait as long as possible because the problem may solve itself in the interim (option 6). But I think I prefer 1 or 4 with maybe even a slight preference for 4 (with the moved players being Samuelsson and Alberts). But it probably doesn't make sense to have your 6th costliest D making over $3M either, so there is some wisdom in 1 or 2 I think.

Thoughts ?
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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by Arbour » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:29 am

Salo has an NTC, and Gillis has repeatedly gone on record that not only will he honour any NTC but he won't even approach a player to request a waiver of the NTC, subject to one exception and that is at the player's own instigation. So if Salo is healthy he remains a Canuck. Of the remaining dmen only Edler and Ehrhoff do not have NTC's and have salaries in the range of Salo, and although I haven't calculated the actual per diem, aggregate numbers suggest that moving either does not solve the cap problem, nor do I think Gillis would even consider moving either one of them ahead of Bieksa.

Without Gillis having some cap magic up his sleeve Bieksa at this point is the odd man out, and becomes a pure salary dump (picks and prospects) in so far as the NHL roster is concerned, unless there is some maneuvering (maybe a package deal) which frees up cap space so the Canucks can take a roster player in return.

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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by Cannie » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:41 pm

I truly believe GMMG and the Canucks brass value defensive depth over most anything else, especially after being burned badly twice in the last 4 seasons when key defensemen got injured late in the regular season. That said, with Alberts and Rome proving to be serviceable 7th and 8th d-men this year, and top 4 depth we haven't had in years, we can afford to part with Bieksa.
The problem is, every NHL GM knows it, and obviously no tempting offers have crossed Gillis' desk yet.

I say, lets encourage Juice to continue his fine play recently, and maybe we can get a 2nd rounder for him, which I'm thinking will be the play here (2nd to 5th rounder).

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the toucan kid
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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by the toucan kid » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:49 pm

I say, lets encourage Juice to continue his fine play recently, and maybe we can get a 2nd rounder for him, which I'm thinking will be the play here (2nd to 5th rounder).
We're not getting a second round pick for a salary dump.

I don't pretend to know what's out there, but when Sturm goes for a PTBNL or whatever, there's obviously not much going on out there. A late round pick would be a step up give the tag on BXA

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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by dr.dork » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:00 pm

Arbour wrote:Salo has an NTC, and Gillis has repeatedly gone on record that not only will he honour any NTC but he won't even approach a player to request a waiver of the NTC, subject to one exception and that is at the player's own instigation.
Gillis is a lawyer. So while he said he will honour the NTC, he can still send Salo to the minors. I'm not saying he will do that, but it wouldn't really go against his statement.

I like Salo when he is healthy and I think I would go the trade Bieksa route before waiving Salo, but given Salo's health, his injury and the fact both Salo and Bieksa are free agents at year end, you really have to pick the one that is most valuable now and in the playoffs. I'm not convinced Salo is that choice, mainly based on the fact he will have missed 2/3rds of the season by the time he returns.

I think they might try to move Bieksa (and obviously they tried that previously) but I wouldn't be shocked if they change their mind based on Salo's recovery and the play of all the D.

It is an interesting problem, and every solution has its warts.

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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by Tiger » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:28 pm

hmm interesting problem .. Maybe first time the Canucks have 2 many top 4 dmen.. Bieksa has had some good games this year but overall is the " choice " to trade for prospects or draft choices.. A healthy Salo for 1/2 a year and going into the playoffs is a far better dman.

However Dr D.. I am intrigued with your option 4 ..
4 Move or waive a forward or two.

With Tambellini doing a good job on the 2nd line and Hansen available for spot duty on the top 6..and with a load of AHL/NHL forwards rotating between the Moose and the Nucks .. possibly Raymond is expendable? As his salary dump would offset the 1/2 year of Salo ( help me on this OH CAP GURU"S ) ;) we should then be able to keep both Bieksa and Salo..
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the toucan kid
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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by the toucan kid » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:47 pm


Gillis is a lawyer. So while he said he will honour the NTC, he can still send Salo to the minors. I'm not saying he will do that, but it wouldn't really go against his statement.
He's too good. Bieksa isn't.

I know everything about his faults, but Edler still hasn't gone mondo yet, and until then, Salo is the best 2A we're going to get. Bieksa is, when good a 3b, when bad a 5.

And yes, doc, that goofy notation goes back to some equally goofy conversations, but I think you know what I mean. This being an honest cup contention year, you have to take Salo and hope.

Neither one is going to put a Canucks jersey on again after this season anyway.

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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by dr.dork » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:26 am

the toucan kid wrote: And yes, doc, that goofy notation goes back to some equally goofy conversations, but I think you know what I mean. This being an honest cup contention year, you have to take Salo and hope.
We're pretty good without Salo and the rust might be sort of thick on him when he returns.

All signs point to Bieksa as the odd man out which is probably the right move, but if you assume one of the 6 is hobbled or injured going into the playoffs then maybe you're better off with the 6 pretty high quality D.

Tiger, the move a forward option would need $2.5M (Raymond or Samuelsson would probably be the only reasonable options). Then you would need to move Alberts, but given that we have Salo that should be OK. I'm not a capologist but I think when Salo's $3.5M salary returns we pretty much have to remove $3.5M from the existing roster. One in two out (fwd+Alberts) would mean we go with one fewer on the roster...

If I had to guess, I would guess they haven't really made up their mind yet. They are waiting to see how Salo's skating is and whether someone else gets hurt. Other teams will also be in the market for a top 4 defenceman and Bieksa probably would fit the bill on most teams. They should be able to move him for a 2nd rounder or a prospect.

The play of Tambellini makes the decision more difficult though. Our depth at forward might mean Samuelsson is expendable, but I wouldn't move Raymond. He is in our longer term plans.

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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by the toucan kid » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:37 pm

I would move Sammuelson over Bieksa any day, but I doubt anyone will take him. Got another year on the deal remember.

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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by Madcombinepilot » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:55 pm

amen touc! (never thought I wasould say that!!) with the way that Sammy has played this last month, I would put him through waivers, or, instead of a salary dump trade (if thats even available), i would leave Salo on LTIR as long as possible, or start drilling pucks @ Samuelson during practice.. (call him the goalie screen during PP and let Erhoff break his leg or something....)

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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by dr.dork » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:53 pm

the toucan kid wrote:I would move Sammuelson over Bieksa any day, but I doubt anyone will take him. Got another year on the deal remember.
He can be waived and stuck in the minors. He doesn't count against the cap then. He costs the Acquilini's money and once he is down in Manitoba he is pretty much stuck there. But I don't think Gillis would do that though, mainly because it makes the team look bad wrt attracting new free agents.

I think someone would take him. He scored 20-something goals last year and could be a top 6 forward on more than a few teams.

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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by Canuck-One » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:12 pm

Let's wait and see if and when the Doctors clear Salo to play. I'm not convinced that he'll be back this year at all. David Beckham tore the same muscle and he was out for a whole season. He was younger and just as fit, if not more fit than Salo. If Salo does miraculously make it back, it will probably be closer to the playoffs and past the trade deadline. Then he has to have a conditioning stint in Manitoba. He may come back healthy and at no cost in terms of cap space if he starts playing during the Playoffs.

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Re: Salo's imminent return

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:23 pm

I woudn't mind moving Ball-tard, but with the imminent free agency of Biesucka, Salo and Erhoff, he'll probably be kept.

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