Are you kidding me!?

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jchockey
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Are you kidding me!?

Post by jchockey » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:21 am

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=282198

The Sedins want contracts identical to Zetterberg's.

Seriously?

No, seriously?

Well, at least ABBA won't be a staple in the dressing room now...

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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by Island Nucklehead » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:38 am

Can't believe it. If it's true they're gone. There's no way any other team in the league does that deal, and if they do good riddance.

Swedish newspapers have been known to misread these guys in the past, so I'll reserve complete redicule until they sign or we get Gillis' perspective.

12 years, 63 Million?

While a 5.25 cap hit is definitely something I would love to sign them for... that amount for the next decade plus, til these guys are 40? Really?

Zetterberg, while having less points this season, is barely removed from a 43 goal/93 point season, a Stanley Cup and a CONN SMYTHE TROPHY. He has 146 goals in the last 4 seasons. Daniel has 118. They're not in the same class. Zetterberg is a legit top 10 forward in the league. The Sedin's probably sit top 20.

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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by Cornuck » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:48 am

Just more negotiating via the media is my guess, but considering you have them as a package it can't be done.

Would a team sign 'two Zetterbergs' at that price? If they HAVE to play on the same line?

I hold true with my previous statement - if one goes down with a career altering injury, the other will become an anchor. Long term contracts are out IMHO.
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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by Madcombinepilot » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:52 am

I would go 5.25 for 4 years each though :)

heck, I would even give the NMC's...
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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by Linden Is God » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:54 am

The cap hit is nice. The length, not so much.
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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by jchockey » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:59 am

Linden Is God wrote:The cap hit is nice. The length, not so much.
The cap hit's still a little on the high side for me, $6.083m... but yes, the term is just ridiculous.

I can't believe they think they're in the same class as Zetterberg.

When they can add Stanley Cups and Conn Smythes to their resumes I'll consider it.

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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by the toucan kid » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:06 am

Unless MG is a complete fucking dipshit, then this news puts a smile on my face, because (and I'm assuming it's true, only because I want it to be so) they just priced themselves outta town. Someone warm up the engine for a trip to the airport.

By the way, if I had two players like Zetterberg, I would find a way to get deals of that kind done. The Sedins combined aren't worth one Zetterberg in my book, but alas, let us not go there - at least until something is decided in these negotiations.

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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by puckhead » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:21 am

jchockey wrote:http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=282198

The Sedins want contracts identical to Zetterberg's.

term is identical. money is $10 million less, according to the story.
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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by Kel » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:34 am

jchockey wrote:
Linden Is God wrote:The cap hit is nice. The length, not so much.
The cap hit's still a little on the high side for me, $6.083m... but yes, the term is just ridiculous.

I can't believe they think they're in the same class as Zetterberg.

When they can add Stanley Cups and Conn Smythes to their resumes I'll consider it.
No no, they're not asking the same money as Zetterberg, only the same length. The cap hit of the rumoured deal is at $5.25M, a very long hit. I don't have a problem with the deal if it's heavily front loaded, because if they receive, say, 80-85%, of the salary in the first 6 years, they will very likely retire after 6 years and the Canucks will be off the hook. Naslund retired and saved the Rangers some cap hit and Naslund's contract is front-loaded as well.

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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by Kel » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:39 am

the toucan kid wrote:Unless MG is a complete fucking dipshit, then this news puts a smile on my face, because (and I'm assuming it's true, only because I want it to be so) they just priced themselves outta town. Someone warm up the engine for a trip to the airport.

By the way, if I had two players like Zetterberg, I would find a way to get deals of that kind done. The Sedins combined aren't worth one Zetterberg in my book, but alas, let us not go there - at least until something is decided in these negotiations.
Nothing going to change your mind about them; I know you think they're second liners at best. I'd be happy with a $5.25M cap hit long term deal with the Sedins (since I'm not paying the money and assuming they retire after 6 years), rather than seeing them leave and find the Canucks were only able to sign two forwards that scored less point than either of them, one of which may be truly a second liners at best (for $10.5M cap hit total). With a $10.5M cap hit, you're looking at a combo of Antropov and Cammalleri or something like that.

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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by dr.dork » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:22 am

This isn't that dumb, depending on clauses. Cap hit is $5.25 which is reasonable. If it is front end loaded and if they retire early they are off the books.

This type of thing makes sense to me, but it is a wee bit rich and long for my liking. It is about a million less than the Zetterberg deal. Yes, Zetterberg is in another class, but they aren't that far behind.

If worse comes to worse and they need to (eventually) be bought out or they retire early, the ramifications are not that severe.

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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by Fred » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:26 am

I wonder if there's a clause to cover the point of time Zetterberg must retire ie a performance figure at which point he must retire. His contract goes until he's 40. If there was some clause like that in the Sedins then who knows maybe it's not as bad as we may think ?

Zetterberg has played 200 games less than the sedin, they started earlier in the NHL. Zetrrerberg also played with the likes of Yzerman, Lidstrom Chelios Hasek at the top of their careers, so winning was undoubtly easier. Zetterberg averaged 0.9 pts/game in their careers, the Sedins 0.7 pts per game
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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by levelheaded » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:28 am

I'll just cross-post what I said on another forum because the topic is identical. I like the Sedins, but 12 years is a long time, and injuries, trades, free agent signings and developing prospects could make them redundant in 5 years, let alone ten.


Personally I'd pass on that Sedin contract request. Naslund was only a couple years older than them when he signed his 3 year post-lockout extension, and that sucked enough having to get through. Can you imagine if the Sedins hit a wall in 4 years and we had as much as another 8 years of a couple third line forwards who can't contribute in a meaningful way? I'd prefer to pay them $6.5M for 4 years than $5.25M for 12 because at least then a) the contract is moveable and b) there is a definite end in sight. I don't get this new trend towards long term contracts, it's entirely contingent upon forcing the player to retire, and if they don't want to do that when it's convenient for the team you're stuck with them for a looooong time.

Plus I'm not entirely sure I want to watch pretty much the same team for the next 10 years. While the Sedins are consistent performers and quality first liners, they're hardly flashy forwards and they're not a ton of fun to watch. Another decade of the cycle may take a toll on my love for this sport.

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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by Kel » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:42 am

levelheaded wrote:I'll just cross-post what I said on another forum because the topic is identical. I like the Sedins, but 12 years is a long time, and injuries, trades, free agent signings and developing prospects could make them redundant in 5 years, let alone ten.


Personally I'd pass on that Sedin contract request. Naslund was only a couple years older than them when he signed his 3 year post-lockout extension, and that sucked enough having to get through. Can you imagine if the Sedins hit a wall in 4 years and we had as much as another 8 years of a couple third line forwards who can't contribute in a meaningful way? I'd prefer to pay them $6.5M for 4 years than $5.25M for 12 because at least then a) the contract is moveable and b) there is a definite end in sight. I don't get this new trend towards long term contracts, it's entirely contingent upon forcing the player to retire, and if they don't want to do that when it's convenient for the team you're stuck with them for a looooong time.

Plus I'm not entirely sure I want to watch pretty much the same team for the next 10 years. While the Sedins are consistent performers and quality first liners, they're hardly flashy forwards and they're not a ton of fun to watch. Another decade of the cycle may take a toll on my love for this sport.
I think it's going to end up something in the middle, around 8 years and cap hit between $5.25M and $6.5M. I'm guessing $5.5 or $5.75M for 8 years.
Last edited by Kel on Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are you kidding me!?

Post by jchockey » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:22 pm

The cap hit is nice, but again the term is just ridiculous. I'm not entirely convinced the Sedins can be players a franchise can be built around, unlike a Zetterberg, and even then he needs a strong supporting cast as well.

The thing with 12 years is, if Grabner, Schneider, and Hodgson all of a sudden become bona fide NHLers, where's the money to sign them? Detroit is in a great position because they never bring along their rookies until their early 20s after a couple seasons in the AHL, and even then the ones they bring up are the Helm and Abdelkader types - easily replaceable.

If one Sedin goes down with injury, as someone else said previously it makes the other one utterly useless. There's no guarantee that they'll retire before their contracts are up - and should their play decline, I imagine it'll be difficult to move them. That's not to mention that we have no idea what kind of salary cap we're looking at five years down the road, much less twelve.

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