IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

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Farhan Lalji

IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:31 pm

IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade for Redden?

Here's my line of thinking:

-The Niedermayers' (Scott and Rob) are looking to sign here.

-If Scott signs here, we have one of the best defensemen in the league.

-Wade Redden's game has signficantly declined over the past few years, but he is still young enough to pull out of his funk.

-Could a guy like Scott Niedermayer, with his years of experience and leadership, pull a guy like Redden out of his funk, and turn him back into the Redden of old? IF that were to happen, could Niedermayer, Redden, and Edler form one of the most dangerous defensive cores in the NHL?

-The Canucks could then use some of their other (now extra) defensemen to make improvements up front.


Farhan's fantasy:

-Sedin twins for Heatley & Spezza
-Bye Bye Sundin and Ohlund
-Sign the Niedermayers'
-Demitra for Redden

Some of our defensemen can be used to improve our depth up front.

???(Hodgson! :P )-Spezza-Heatley
Burrows-Kesler-Bernier
Wellwood-Niedermayer-Hansen
Hordichuk-Johnson-Rypien

Niedermayer-Redden
Edler-Bieksa
Mitchell-Salo

Luongo
Labarbera


p.s._______I have no idea if this fits under the cap. Couldn't be arsed to look. However - I love the 'North American' vibe of this team. The depth on defense would be superb if everyone plays up to par (and Nieds gets Redden out of his funk).

p.p.s_________I'm not saying that the above line-up *will* happen (obviously it won't), but I just wanted to let everyone know that I'll be using the above line-up for my newly acquired PS3. :)

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Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by dr.dork » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:24 pm

So you want to take Sather's biggest screwup ever off his hands ? You want Redden in a Canuck jersey for $6.5M per for the next 5 years ?

I will give you a hint, Farhan. You spend $1M or maybe $2M on high risk projects and reclamation projects. $6.5M dollars is actually quite a bit of money, even for you, so you don't spend it like a drunken sailor at the #5 Orange. If you do spend 6.5, it should be as close to a sure thing as you can get. (Redden is a sure thing, but on the sure miss side...).

Farhan Lalji

Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:41 am

dr.dork wrote:So you want to take Sather's biggest screwup ever off his hands ? You want Redden in a Canuck jersey for $6.5M per for the next 5 years ?
If Demitra is going the other way (4 mill), then maybe it's 'deadwood' for 'deadwood' (although in Demitra's defense, he wasn't too far off from being a PPG player....so maybe the 'deadwood' label isn't appropriate in Demitra's case?)
I will give you a hint, Farhan. You spend $1M or maybe $2M on high risk projects and reclamation projects. $6.5M dollars is actually quite a bit of money, even for you, so you don't spend it like a drunken sailor at the #5 Orange. If you do spend 6.5, it should be as close to a sure thing as you can get. (Redden is a sure thing, but on the sure miss side...).
Are you completely sure about that last statement?

Redden is 32 years old....which isn't too old by any stretch of the means. The guy also hasn't suffered any serious injuries to the best of knowledge....meaning that he's atleast PHYSICALLY capable of getting back to where he was (unlike Bertuzzi and Naslund who both had physical ailments that prevented this...but I digress). Perhaps Redden is just battling confidence issues? Perhaps Redden is the type of d-men that goes from 'average' to 'excellent' when paired with a high quality calibre defensemen? (Redden's game dropped off when Chara left Ottawa and to the best of my knowledge, Redden wasn't really paired up with a top quality d-man in NYR).

When paired with a top quality d-man however, Redden has proved that he can play at a very high level.

IF a guy like Scott Niedermayer can bring out the best in Redden, and help him address his confidence issues, etc., then perhaps these two guys can become one of the best defensive pairings in the NHL?

If Ohlund is taking off, combined with the proposed Demitra trade, then it's an overall cap reduction of 1 mill if Redden comes here.

Sundin, Pyatt, Sedin twins salary should be about the same as Heatley, Spezza, and both Niedermayers' (can't be arsed to figure this out).

As far as the cap goes (if my scenario goes through)
-Gone Ohlund
-Gone Sundin
-Gone Pyatt
-Gone Sedin twins
-Gone Demitra

Incoming
-Redden
-Spezza
-Heatley
-S. Niedermayer
-R. Niedermayer

Meh - we'd probably go over the cap but there is no cap in my video game. 8-)

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Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by Linden Is God » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:51 am

Worst thread ever.
GO CANUCKS GO !!!

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Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by Canuck-One » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:20 am

Linden Is God wrote:Worst thread ever.
Perhaps not the worst but it's up there.

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Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by the toucan kid » Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:43 am

Sorry Farhan, this one is just colossally dumb. Five years ago would you have suggested taking Yashin off the Islanders hands or Holik from the Rangers? Redden has been awful for years, was in Ottawa, is in New York. Sats showed his vastly diminished hockey sense off with that one, for sure.

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Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by jchockey » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:15 am

And I thought my Sedins for Heatley thread was on the ridiculous side too...

My god though, how bad Redden has become. Just awful.

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Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by Jovorock » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:17 am

Farhan I like your posts, but Redden ($6.5M) coming here would upset the apple cart for the other more productive defensemen. If Redden had a mean streak he would be better, but he isn't near worth that kind of money except in NY land under Sather.

MG is looking for guys that give up their bodies and with heart for the team. Redden has neither IMO.
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Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by Kel » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:34 am

It's a risky suggestion and it's even riskier when you talk about Redden, because he's a defenseman. I can only recall cases where a good D's play turn south and never get it back (or at least not to the same level), but I can't even recall a single case that a good one hit a "slump" and turn it around. Especially when you talk about a guy whose play deteriorated not because of a physical injury. Teams are going to be very cautious when it comes to $6+ million long-term contracts from now on.

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Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by Island Nucklehead » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:20 pm

Redden would have to be our best defenseman with a salary like that. At his current skill level, I'd have to say he'd be a 3-4 guy on this team, and probably should be making about a third of what he currently does. He's itching for a buyout, or to be the highest paid AHL player ever (which is the rumour being floated about, on the farm from the get-go next season).

If we wanted Redden, we wouldn't have to give up Demitra, a third round pick would probably do the trick and I'm pretty confident I'd take the pick.

Farhan Lalji

Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:15 pm

the toucan kid wrote:Sorry Farhan, this one is just colossally dumb. Five years ago would you have suggested taking Yashin off the Islanders hands or Holik from the Rangers? Redden has been awful for years, was in Ottawa, is in New York. Sats showed his vastly diminished hockey sense off with that one, for sure.
Here is my question: WHY?!

Cause and effect:

-Markus Naslund and Todd Bertuzzi are not as good as they once were because of physical ailments and/or mental demons (Bertuzzi's case).

-Trevor Linden, post 1996, wasn't as good as he once was due to a serious knee injury.

-Eric Lindros, Paul Kariya, and Michael Peca never reached their old level after sustaining concussions (debatable, but just go with this).

-Sundin was not as good this year because of his age and/or starting the year in the middle of the year.

-Jose Theodore lost his game because he discovered the night life (debatable? I don't know).

Bottom line? CAUSE AND EFFECT.

What's Redden's cause?

-Is the guy too old? No - he's only 32 years old.
-Did the guy suffer a serious injury not too long ago? Not to the best of my knowledge.

WHY has Redden played like a sorry sack of shit these past few years?

If the 'WHY' is related to confidence issues and/or the fact that he only plays well along superstar defensemen (i.e. Chara...Niedermayer?!), then perhaps this is something that could be curable?

That was the point I was making. IF the Canucks could get rid of some of their deadwood for another team's deadwood (deadwood of which has a chance of reviving), then not only will the level of salary not be effected too much, but you can also get a guy, who under the right circumstances, could go back to playing at a superstar level.

How does a guy (Wade Redden) go from being one of the best promising young d-men in the league, to a average/below average defenseman? (without the cause being age-related and/or injury related). Think a seasoned vet like Nieds could help out in this area? These guys were also fellow Team Canada teammates back in the day if I understand correctly.

It's just food for thought: Just imagine what this team's defense would be like if you had Nieds and the Redden of old (not to mention, a developing Edler).

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Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by Cornuck » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:26 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:...If the 'WHY' is related to confidence issues and/or the fact that he only plays well along superstar defensemen (i.e. Chara...Niedermayer?!)...
Doesn't that answer your question right there? You can take any dman and he will appear to be a better player next to an all-star. Consider it the Triplet Syndrome (ie: Anson Carter).

If a guy can't make it on his own - do we need him? Let alone want him?
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Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by dr.dork » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:33 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote: WHY has Redden played like a sorry sack of shit these past few years?
Who cares why he is a sack of shit. You don't take risks on sacks of shit that have 5 year $6.5M/year contracts. $6.5M at 1 year would be colossally stupid, at 5 years Gillis should be fired for even letting it enter his brain. If you want to take on that contract, and get three first rounders and then bury Redden in the AHL, fine. That is just money, but (almost) wasting $32.5M of your bosses money is usually not a good idea.

Your dumbest thread ever.

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Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by Linden Is God » Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:48 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:
the toucan kid wrote:Sorry Farhan, this one is just colossally dumb. Five years ago would you have suggested taking Yashin off the Islanders hands or Holik from the Rangers? Redden has been awful for years, was in Ottawa, is in New York. Sats showed his vastly diminished hockey sense off with that one, for sure.
Here is my question: WHY?!

Cause and effect:

-Markus Naslund and Todd Bertuzzi are not as good as they once were because of physical ailments and/or mental demons (Bertuzzi's case).

-Trevor Linden, post 1996, wasn't as good as he once was due to a serious knee injury.

-Eric Lindros, Paul Kariya, and Michael Peca never reached their old level after sustaining concussions (debatable, but just go with this).

-Sundin was not as good this year because of his age and/or starting the year in the middle of the year.

-Jose Theodore lost his game because he discovered the night life (debatable? I don't know).

Bottom line? CAUSE AND EFFECT.

What's Redden's cause?

-Is the guy too old? No - he's only 32 years old.
-Did the guy suffer a serious injury not too long ago? Not to the best of my knowledge.

WHY has Redden played like a sorry sack of shit these past few years?

If the 'WHY' is related to confidence issues and/or the fact that he only plays well along superstar defensemen (i.e. Chara...Niedermayer?!), then perhaps this is something that could be curable?

That was the point I was making. IF the Canucks could get rid of some of their deadwood for another team's deadwood (deadwood of which has a chance of reviving), then not only will the level of salary not be effected too much, but you can also get a guy, who under the right circumstances, could go back to playing at a superstar level.

How does a guy (Wade Redden) go from being one of the best promising young d-men in the league, to a average/below average defenseman? (without the cause being age-related and/or injury related). Think a seasoned vet like Nieds could help out in this area? These guys were also fellow Team Canada teammates back in the day if I understand correctly.

It's just food for thought: Just imagine what this team's defense would be like if you had Nieds and the Redden of old (not to mention, a developing Edler).
Please stop.
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Re: IF the Niedermayers' signed here, would you trade 4 Redden?

Post by the toucan kid » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:26 pm

Please stop.
Nah, most of his posts are worthy of discussion, this one is just trying too hard. We'll need the topics to keep this place alive during the long summer anyway.

Frankly, Farhan, I don't think Wade Redden was ever that good aside from his one big year. As we also saw with another defector to the Big Apple, when the talent goes, she don't come back.

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